Down goes another GOP talking point

[GG]

Wow! I've seen plenty of false confidence on these PPP boards, but your post takes the cake. That's amazing.

 

Not only did you fail to understand my post, but you also didn't understand the Bungee Jumper post which you're trying to reference. Nor, evidently, did you understand the press release to which I was replying.

 

The study looked at a specific $88 billion portion of U.S. healthcare spending. Of the $88 billion it looked at, it concluded $1.1 billion represented taxpayers paying for illegal aliens' healthcare. But the $88 billion the study looked at represents just 5% of U.S. healthcare spending. Because it apparently ignored the other 95%, it can't quantify the extent to which illegal aliens are imposing costs on the U.S. healthcare system. Sorry if this burst your ill-founded sense of smug self-superiority. Well, not really. 

838242[/snapback]

 

Please tell me the name of your economics or finance professor, so that I can confirm that you failed whatever courses you took in those disciplines.

 

For the nth time, the reason the study picked $88 billion is that is the total government expenditures on health care. Rand wanted to see if the argument that illegals are taxing the GOVERNMENT'S spending on healthcare, is true. It doesn't seem that it is. Rand couldn't care less what the illegals' impact on private health spending is, because that is not their question.

 

But, setting aside the point of the survey, if you honestly think that a big portion of that $1.7 trillion is even minutely impacted by the 11 million illegals, then you're a bigger idiot than everyone gives you credit for on this board.

[GG]

Saying illegals are saving California is the equivalent of sticking a finger in the dike.  Bad policies are going to sink the state in time, the exact same predicament the fed is facing because the people have figured out they can vote themselves stuff at the expense of some faceless "other."

838230[/snapback]

 

You are correct, but the immigrant influx into California is doing a good job of propping it up. That article played some numbers on statistics, not all immigrants in CA are illegal.

 

Of course if the state adopts anti-iimigration measures and govt slows down HB1 visas, then the decline would happen much faster.

[Bungee Jumper]

Please tell me the name of your economics or finance professor, so that I can confirm that you failed whatever courses you took in those disciplines.

 

For the nth time, the reason the study picked $88 billion is that is the total government expenditures on health care.  Rand wanted to see if the argument that illegals are taxing the GOVERNMENT'S spending on healthcare, is true.  It doesn't seem that it is. Rand couldn't care less what the illegals' impact on private health spending is, because that is not their question.

 

But, setting aside the point of the survey, if you honestly think that a big portion of that $1.7 trillion is even minutely impacted by the 11 million illegals, then you're a bigger idiot than everyone gives you credit for on this board.

838348[/snapback]

 

Thanks to Coli for sending me the PDF, and if you want to know what the researchers were studying...

 

ABSTRACT: Foreign-born adults in Los Angeles County, California, constituted 45 percent of the county’s population ages 18–64 but accounted for 33 percent of health spending in 2000. Similarly, the undocumented constituted 12 percent of the nonelderly adult population but accounted for only 6 percent of spending. Extrapolating to the nation, total spending by the undocumented is $6.4 billion, of which only 17 percent ($1.1 billion) is paid for by public sources. The foreign-born (especially the undocumented) use disproportionately fewer medical services and contribute less to health care costs in relation to their population share, likely because of their better relative health and lack of health insurance.

 

Where, in the paper, health care costs are defined as "service use and cost of care" (in other words, the billions Merck contributes to the GDP per annum on FDA approvals isn't included, as it's not related to service use and cost of care. Got that, HA?). So, put simply, the study extrapolates (in a manner not unlike I posted earlier) that of the $430 billion (NOT $1.7 trillion) of the afore-defined health care costs nationally in 2000, $6.5 billion was incurred by "undocumented immigrants"; and of the $88 billion of those costs paid for by public (i.e. directly taxpayer funded) funds, only $1.1 billion of those costs were incurred by illegal immigrants.

 

THAT is what the study says. That is what it studied, and that is what it said. Got that, Holcomb's Arm? Or do you have a bull sh-- Wikipedia article that says something completely different?

[Chef Jim]

I think what's amazing is that 45% of the adult population (18-64) were foreign born. That tells you something right there.

[Orton's Arm]

Please tell me the name of your economics or finance professor, so that I can confirm that you failed whatever courses you took in those disciplines.

You know far less about economics than anyone allowed within a fifty mile radius of any of the schools I attended.

[EC-Bills]

Alrighty.........here we go again. 

838257[/snapback]

 

How many pages do you think we are in for? More importantly, how many bottles of wine do you have? I figure now is the perfect time learn about and appreciate wine and whom better to learn from, than Chef Jim?!?

[Chef Jim]

How many pages do you think we are in for?  More importantly, how many bottles of wine do you have?  I figure now is the perfect time learn about and appreciate wine and whom better to learn from, than Chef Jim?!? 

838451[/snapback]

 

Just got suprised at work with another case that I forgot I ordered.

[EC-Bills]

Just got suprised at work with another case that I forgot I ordered. 

838455[/snapback]

 

Perfect, I am on my way over!

[Orton's Arm]

You know, I don't feel like retyping my arguments.  Just read the previous 20 pages explaining how you are, in fact, a moron who can't distinguish "error" and "probability". 

 

And I'm not a divine authority, not in the absolute sense.  Just the relative sense, compared to you.  The only thing more amusing than the degree to which you embarrass yourself is the degree to which you're totally ignorant of it. 

838273[/snapback]

I don't want to ruin Coli's thread, so let's continue this fight over on the "Err Files Chapter 11 Bankruptcy" thread.

[Chef Jim]

I don't want to ruin Coli's thread, so let's continue this fight over on the "Err Files Chapter 11 Bankruptcy" thread.

838460[/snapback]

 

'Cause that one's already totally fuked up.

[Bungee Jumper]

I don't want to ruin Coli's thread, so let's continue this fight over on the "Err Files Chapter 11 Bankruptcy" thread.

838460[/snapback]

 

It's not a fight, it's a beat-down. The entire mathematical world is right, I agree with them, and you're stupid.

[Wacka]

The biggest hospital in San Jose (the 11th largest city in the US) closed up.

The reason- having to treat ILLEGAL ALIENS.

 

 

Those that don't live in CA have no idea how many there are here.

 

The drain is massive on the prison system too. It is estimated a quarter to a third of the criminals in the state system are ILLEGAL ALIENS.

[Orton's Arm]

It's not a fight, it's a beat-down.  The entire mathematical world is right, I agree with them, and you're stupid.

838476[/snapback]

What part of not wanting to ruin Coli's thread didn't you understand?

[Orton's Arm]

The biggest hospital in San Jose (the 11th largest city in the US) closed up.

The reason- having to treat ILLEGAL ALIENS.

Those that don't live in CA have no idea how many there are here.

 

The drain is massive on the prison system too. It is estimated a quarter to a third of the criminals in the state system are ILLEGAL ALIENS.

838499[/snapback]

This post rings true, and I've heard that other states with massive immigration problems are experiencing similar hardships.

[mike1011]

This post rings true, and I've heard that other states with massive immigration problems are experiencing similar hardships.

838519[/snapback]

 

Hospital closings, prisoners, student costs, etc. are not calculated to the total amount of money that GG is claiming. Taking one sample amongst the hundreds of expenditures is sophomoric. Even if we use the $1.1 billion we have 260 million Americans and the average family is 4.3 people making roughly 45 million families which does not equate to $11.

 

BUT... BUT... WE HAVE A PEER REVIEWED STUDY!!!

 

Look at reality, California is having a crisis partially because they cannot stop the illegals. If you are really not concerned give us a check for $11 each, that's every American family in the world for law breakers. When should I forward to that check?

[mike1011]

A cursory view of illegal immigration provides the following information:

 

In 2002 illegals cost us $26 billion, and they paid $16 billion in taxes leaving us with a $10,000,000,000 deficit. That's 10 billion boys. Care to eat some crow? This comes from the Center for Immigration, a non-partisan committee.

 

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

 

I know I was guessing double the figure or $1.1 billion, and one jacka$$ said I was making those #s out of thin air and he was right, because it was 10 times the $1.1 billion he quoted on health-care alone for a specific demographic.

 

That's $10,000,000,000

 

Here's a news story to corroborate the facts: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2004Aug25.html

 

Illegal immigrants kill, rape and destroy lives at a much higher rate than legal citizens. That's the non-economic side of it. That's the human side, and it has faces of families in agony over the death of a loved one.

 

How about the cost of identity theft? Countless hours and millions of dollars to restore your own identity:

http://redtape.msnbc.com/2006/03/hidden_cost_of_.html

 

How about the cost of all the cars they steal? How about all our US dollars going to drug lords? That's free of course...

http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty2.htm

 

You were also right, I guessed too low. There are 300,000 births a year by illegal immigrants who have "US citizen" children, called "anchor children". Their cost is in the billions, but are not fitted with the equation as they are now citizens and not illegals.

 

This is just pertaining to San Diego:

-Nearly 80 percent of gang-related crimes in San Diego are illegal immigrants. They only attack other gang members right...

-In San Diego alone protests supporting and opposing illegal immigration cost the Sheriff's Department $489,000 in 2005.

 

According to a study in 1996 of the costs of illegal immigration by Rice Univ. economist, Dr. Donald Huddle, illegal aliens were displacing roughly 730,000 American workers every year, at a cost of about $4.3 billion a year, and the supply of cheap labor depresses the wages and working conditions of the working poor.

 

Are we to believe all the facts as to the cost of these people? Or just your idiotic myopic understanding of what is happening?

[GG]

You know far less about economics than anyone allowed within a fifty mile radius of any of the schools I attended.

838447[/snapback]

 

I am humbled by the superior economic acumen of graduates of Almaty University.

 

Care to expound on why it's important to look at total US healthcare spending when the topic at hand is the drain on US treasury by illegal aliens?

[Bungee Jumper]

What part of not wanting to ruin Coli's thread didn't you understand?

838517[/snapback]

 

I'm pretty sure he considered it ruined the very moment you posted in it.

[GG]

A cursory view of illegal immigration provides the following information:

 

In 2002 illegals cost us $26 billion, and they paid $16 billion in taxes leaving us with a $10,000,000,000 deficit. That's 10 billion boys. Care to eat some crow? This comes from the Center for Immigration, a non-partisan committee.

 

You obviously missed the simple math I provided that showed the benefit of cheaper labor has on the economy (not that I would expect you to understand simple Euclidian math)

 

Care to tell me how it matters that CIS is a bi-partisan committee, when they are pushing for a specific agenda? Do you expect their results to be unbiased?

 

I know I was guessing double the figure or $1.1 billion, and one jacka$$ said I was making those #s out of thin air and he was right, because it was 10 times the $1.1 billion he quoted on health-care alone for a specific demographic.

 

You were pulling things out of worse places than thin air. Total US population is 300 mil, total US households is 100 mil. Total government spending on healthcare on illegals is $11 million, equating to $11 per household. Pretty simple.

 

Now if you want to follow that up to the total economic impact, then you need to exercise your thin air a bit more and see the boost to the economy that cheap labor provides. (Hint, it's a few post higher)

 

Illegal immigrants kill, rape and destroy lives at a much higher rate than legal citizens. That's the non-economic side of it. That's the human side, and it has faces of families in agony over the death of a loved one.

 

Don't tell me, next you'll show me the foolproof statistic that 97% of wanted murder suspects in LA are illegal aliens.

 

How about the cost of identity theft? Countless hours and millions of dollars to restore your own identity:

 

Silly me. Here I'm thinking that a kid at a computer in Romania still poses a greater threat to identity theft than Pedro with a bad liver.

 

How about the cost of all the cars they steal? How about all our US dollars going to drug lords? That's free of course...

 

Yup, the fact that I can't buy pseudophed over the counter anymore is because of that evil border-crossing Pedro.

 

According to a study in 1996 of the costs of illegal immigration by Rice Univ. economist, Dr. Donald Huddle, illegal aliens were displacing roughly 730,000 American workers every year, at a cost of about $4.3 billion a year, and the supply of cheap labor depresses the wages and working conditions of the working poor.

 

Are we to believe all the facts as to the cost of these people? Or just your idiotic myopic understanding of what is happening?

838601[/snapback]

 

And that is why employment rates are at the lowest levels in history. Are we to believe your facts? Good question.

[GG]

The biggest hospital in San Jose (the 11th largest city in the US) closed up.

The reason- having to treat ILLEGAL ALIENS.

Those that don't live in CA have no idea how many there are here.

 

838499[/snapback]

 

Hmm. I wonder if it had more to do with HCA's 1999 plans to expand its newer hospital only 2 miles away from the one you're referring to (I'm guessing), than the financial hit caused by that erstwhile sickly Pedro?

 

It really doesn't take a Kean Grad to do a quick fact check.