VABills Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 wants a phased pullout over the next few months. Says let Iraq figure out what they want whether a full scale civil war is up to them. Yeah good thing he speaks for the people on defense. What about outside influences if we left. What about an outside invasion (Iran) if we left. Damn I love idiot politicians, they make it so easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tux of Borg Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 wants a phased pullout over the next few months. Says let Iraq figure out what they want whether a full scale civil war is up to them. Yeah good think he speaks for the people on defense. What about outside influences if we left. What about an outside invasion (Iran) if we left. Damn I love idiot politicians, they make it so easy. 836057[/snapback] It's simple, we pull out and let Iraq become a terrorist strong hold. I'm sick of dealing with it; let's pass the problem onto kids like we do with everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungee Jumper Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Says let Iraq figure out what they want whether a full scale civil war is up to them. 836057[/snapback] Did he actually say that, or are you paraphrasing? Because THAT is !@#$ing stupid. For all the civil wars we interfere in or are asked to interfere in...to actually foster one...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted November 14, 2006 Author Share Posted November 14, 2006 Did he actually say that, or are you paraphrasing? Because THAT is !@#$ing stupid. For all the civil wars we interfere in or are asked to interfere in...to actually foster one...? 836082[/snapback] Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan, who is expected to chair the Armed Service Committee in January when Democrats take control of Congress, said redeploying troops would prompt the Iraqis to take more expeditious steps to ending the war. Snow further disregarded Levin's call for troops to be withdrawn in months, saying the proposal "doesn't have any meat and bones to it." The Michigan senator said only Iraqis could determine the course for their country: "They and they alone are going to decide whether they're going to have a nation or whether they're going to have an all-out civil war." http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/13/iraq.next/index.html Of course, McCain actually wants to increase troop strength. First time I think I have ever agreed with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 What about outside influences if we left. What about an outside invasion (Iran) if we left.836057[/snapback] You joking, right? There are already outside influences affecting Iraq, and have been ever since the Iraqi army was disbanded and the borders were left unsecured. Iran doesn't need to invade, they already have political ties to many in the Iraqi gov't. Iraq used to be the balance against Iran's middle east influence, and now Iran's reaping the benefits of the neocon's folly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Yes. Let's get out quickly. It worked so well with Viet Nam, it's bound to be as successful now in Irak. First though, fill that cess pool with reporters to adequately cover the US devasion. Then, when the dust from the last helicopter settles they can find themselves alone amongst their thankful supporters looking for stray Americans to behead, disembowl, and drag their burning corpses through their streets. What the hell. Sadam was found guilty. His punishment should be that he has to take back the Presidency of stink hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Did he actually say that, or are you paraphrasing? Because THAT is !@#$ing stupid. For all the civil wars we interfere in or are asked to interfere in...to actually foster one...? 836082[/snapback] He's paraphrasing a reporters paraphrasing. I'd like to see a better version before I decide what I'd think about his proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC-Bills Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 I think I'll wait for the report by Baker and Co and what they recommend and then see how W and Congress go from there before getting too worked up over what or what not may be happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 John Murtha, soon to be Senate Manjority Leader said as much as well. Id say this Country is really going to be !@#$ed up over the next two years, but since Murtha fought in the American Civil War or the War of 1812, I was told by the media we are not allowed to say such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted November 14, 2006 Author Share Posted November 14, 2006 John Murtha, soon to be Senate Manjority Leader said as much as well. Id say this Country is really going to be !@#$ed up over the next two years, but since Murtha fought in the American Civil War or the War of 1812, I was told by the media we are not allowed to say such things. 836243[/snapback] Murtha, that great !@#$ing Marine. Didn't even have the balls to show up to the Marine dedication of the new Heritage Museum on the Marine Corps birthday. Loser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Whether or not we end up with the Levin-sponsored plan (which, if you read the entire transcript of his remarks, calls for a bipartisan-supported plan), or end up acting on the ideas/plans recommended by the Baker-Hamilton report, the important thing is that seven days after the mid-term election and a full three-plus years after this war began, we are finally seeing other ideas being batted around than the "we know better than you" arrogance of the Bush administration and it's inept handling of this war. You would have to be a complete imbecile to think that any of these new plans will be implemented without a great deal of work and imput from both parties, the DoD, and even Bush himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungee Jumper Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Whether or not we end up with the Levin-sponsored plan (which, if you read the entire transcript of his remarks, calls for a bipartisan-supported plan), or end up acting on the ideas/plans recommended by the Baker-Hamilton report, the important thing is that seven days after the mid-term election and a full three-plus years after this war began, we are finally seeing other ideas being batted around than the "we know better than you" arrogance of the Bush administration and it's inept handling of this war. You would have to be a complete imbecile to think that any of these new plans will be implemented without a great deal of work and imput from both parties, the DoD, and even Bush himself. 836430[/snapback] You'd have to be a complete imbecile to think they'll be implemented, period. Bush is going to suddenly pay attention to Congress after six years because they're Democrats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 You'd have to be a complete imbecile to think they'll be implemented, period. Bush is going to suddenly pay attention to Congress after six years because they're Democrats? 836437[/snapback] His new SecDef was in the damn Iraq Study Group. So, what you're saying is, he is so far out of touch with reality, so far out of touch with what the American people want, so far out of touch with members of his own party, and so far out of touch with current and former members of the military, that he would ignore everyone and every bit of advice just to not admit to being wrong for two more years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catchescannonballs Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 wants a phased pullout over the next few months. Says let Iraq figure out what they want whether a full scale civil war is up to them. Yeah good thing he speaks for the people on defense. What about outside influences if we left. What about an outside invasion (Iran) if we left. Damn I love idiot politicians, they make it so easy. 836057[/snapback] Well go figure. Cut and run it is. Democrats are just gun shy. We lose a few soldiers here and there and they want to throw in the towel. But if you compare how many Americans who are dieing to how many Iraqis are and the number of Americans is really very small. How many die on the road each day? Or of accidents at work? We need to stay and finish the mission. Its very much worth the cost. Plus our soldiers are gaining valuable combat experience they can use in the next war. That is very important. If I was Bush I'd go to the nation and ask for 500,000 volunteers to join the army and go over and finish the job of pacifying Iraq. Men would go if asked. No one has asked. The congress would approve the funds once they saw all the young men asking to join and go over to serve a noble cause and Bush would be remembered for ever for putting together a great army that got the job done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Well go figure. Cut and run it is. Democrats are just gun shy. We lose a few soldiers here and there and they want to throw in the towel. But if you compare how many Americans who are dieing to how many Iraqis are and the number of Americans is really very small. How many die on the road each day? Or of accidents at work? We need to stay and finish the mission. Its very much worth the cost. Plus our soldiers are gaining valuable combat experience they can use in the next war. That is very important. If I was Bush I'd go to the nation and ask for 500,000 volunteers to join the army and go over and finish the job of pacifying Iraq. Men would go if asked. No one has asked. The congress would approve the funds once they saw all the young men asking to join and go over to serve a noble cause and Bush would be remembered for ever for putting together a great army that got the job done 836467[/snapback] Wow, where to begin. Comparing accident victims to soldier's deaths to justify the numbers. Wanting to fight a war to get experience for the next war. Any able-bodied young man who wants to volunteer can. You're saying all it would take is for Bush to ask them to do it and 500k will step forward. Riiiight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungee Jumper Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 His new SecDef was in the damn Iraq Study Group. So, what you're saying is, he is so far out of touch with reality, so far out of touch with what the American people want, so far out of touch with members of his own party, and so far out of touch with current and former members of the military, that he would ignore everyone and every bit of advice just to not admit to being wrong for two more years? 836444[/snapback] No. Just Congress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 No. Just Congress. 836647[/snapback] I agree that I don't think he's going to work with the "Seinfeld" Congress as John Tierney calls it, as theres no reason to. I think the elections might have been a wake up call for him though in the sense that he got rid of one of his yes-men and is listening to some other ideas (which, from my understanding, he hadn't been doing before). I love the term "Seinfeld" Congress by the way. Tierney wrote an op-ed this morning (his last for the NYT Editorial Page) saying that the American people voted for Gridlock and is giving this Congress as Seinfeld-esque pass to do nothing. The American people would rather see gridlock then to keep instituting more laws and more stupid crap. I'd have to agree at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted November 14, 2006 Author Share Posted November 14, 2006 I agree that I don't think he's going to work with the "Seinfeld" Congress as John Tierney calls it, as theres no reason to. I think the elections might have been a wake up call for him though in the sense that he got rid of one of his yes-men and is listening to some other ideas (which, from my understanding, he hadn't been doing before). I love the term "Seinfeld" Congress by the way. Tierney wrote an op-ed this morning (his last for the NYT Editorial Page) saying that the American people voted for Gridlock and is giving this Congress as Seinfeld-esque pass to do nothing. The American people would rather see gridlock then to keep instituting more laws and more stupid crap. I'd have to agree at this point. 836792[/snapback] You're giving the people to much credit in that they actually think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Wow, where to begin. Comparing accident victims to soldier's deaths to justify the numbers. Wanting to fight a war to get experience for the next war. Any able-bodied young man who wants to volunteer can. You're saying all it would take is for Bush to ask them to do it and 500k will step forward. Riiiight. 836618[/snapback] You dems need to get some perspective. The Antietam battle on 9/17/1862 in ONE DAY had 26,124 casualties out of total forces of 127,160, over 20%!!!!! Over 43,000 people died in traffic accidents LAST YEAR in the US. About 1,000 soldiers die a year IN PEACETIME (from accidents, disease, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 You're giving the people to much credit in that they actually think. 836802[/snapback] Nope, I'm not. Research shows that one of the big factors in public behavior in elections is that people vote strategically. Why do you think that the Republicans played that up in Montana? You're actually not giving them enough credit. You dems need to get some perspective. The Antietam battle on 9/17/1862 in ONE DAY had 26,124 casualties out of total forces of 127,160, over 20%!!!!!Over 43,000 people died in traffic accidents LAST YEAR in the US. About 1,000 soldiers die a year IN PEACETIME (from accidents, disease, etc.) 838507[/snapback] You're comparing today to 1862? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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