Ramius Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 As if we didnt have enough reasons to hate the BCS, we have whats set up to be almost 3 "national Semi-final" games in the next few weeks... Ohio St. vs Michigan USC vs ND Florida vs Arkansas/LSU (SEC title game) Ohio st - michigan really is a semi-final game, but with regards to the other 2, which winner do you select? And what are the reasons? All 6 of the teams would have a legit claim to the national title game, after a win in these games. So basically the BCS has eft us with 3 semi-finals for 2 spots...someone's getting screwed...AGAIN. And no Ed, rutgers doesnt belong in the national title game, even if they do finish unbeaten. So keep your blind rutgers homerism out of this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC-Bills Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 As if we didnt have enough reasons to hate the BCS, we have whats set up to be almost 3 "national Semi-final" games in the next few weeks... Ohio St. vs Michigan USC vs ND Florida vs Arkansas/LSU (SEC title game) Ohio st - michigan really is a semi-final game, but with regards to the other 2, which winner do you select? And what are the reasons? All 6 of the teams would have a legit claim to the national title game, after a win in these games. So basically the BCS has eft us with 3 semi-finals for 2 spots...someone's getting screwed...AGAIN. And no Ed, rutgers doesnt belong in the national title game, even if they do finish unbeaten. So keep your blind rutgers homerism out of this thread. 835619[/snapback] I would take USC. I think Arkansas will take care of Florida and LSU. USC blew out Arkansas hence the edge to USC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 If USC wins out, they should get the chance to play for the National Champ imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinandjokin Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 As if we didnt have enough reasons to hate the BCS, we have whats set up to be almost 3 "national Semi-final" games in the next few weeks... Ohio St. vs Michigan USC vs ND Florida vs Arkansas/LSU (SEC title game) Ohio st - michigan really is a semi-final game, but with regards to the other 2, which winner do you select? And what are the reasons? All 6 of the teams would have a legit claim to the national title game, after a win in these games. So basically the BCS has eft us with 3 semi-finals for 2 spots...someone's getting screwed...AGAIN. And no Ed, rutgers doesnt belong in the national title game, even if they do finish unbeaten. So keep your blind rutgers homerism out of this thread. 835619[/snapback] This is a tough one. I don't hate the BCS at all, and I think more often than not, it has done a fairly good (certainly not great) job of getting #1 to play #2 for the title. The glaring missteps were when Nebraska and Oklahoma both got trounced in the Big 12 title game and backed in as a #2, only to both get beaten again in the BCS final. And Auburn can certainly dispute the "control your own destiny" line, but USC and Oklahoma were also undefeated that year, and Auburn was ranked a distant 3rd. However, nobody thanks the BCS for putting a game on like the USC-Texas epic last year. It is widely considered to be one of the greatest college football games ever played, and it never would've happened without the BCS. USC would've played Penn State in the Rose, and Texas would've played elsewhere. Both would've won, and USC would've been the champ, while Texas would've been undefeated and #2. Obviously, as Auburn proved, the BCS can't avoid that situation, but it prevents it from happening regularly. In this year's case, not one of those teams can blame the BCS for being left out, because they have all lost this year. If Florida, or USC, or Notre Dame, or LSU finished undefeated, there would be no way to keep them out of the title game. But because they lost, they are at the mercy of the pollsters and the computers. A team may perceive themselves as getting screwed, but in the end, they know they have only themselves to blame. (Rutgers may go undefeated but that doesn't count. Go play Boise St.) Likewise, in a playoff, teams will get screwed. Clearly, it's better to argue over the 4th vs. the 5th best team, or the 8th vs. the 9th best (depending on how many are in your playoff) rather than deciding between #2 and #3, but you know very well that the same issues would arise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBTG81 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 (Rutgers may go undefeated but that doesn't count. Go play Boise St.) 835673[/snapback] You do know that Rutgers opponets have a higher winning percentage than ND's, correct? Again, does ND play the Coast Guard this year? Smokin, are you a bitter Syracuse or Buffalo fan? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 You do know that Rutgers opponets have a higher winning percentage than ND's, correct? Again, does ND play the Coast Guard this year? Smokin, are you a bitter Syracuse or Buffalo fan? Just curious. 835727[/snapback] CBS: Rutgers 33rd SOS, ND 22nd Sagarin: Rutgers 66th, ND 22nd Greenfield: Rutgers 81, ND 66th Massey: Rutgers 45th, ND 13th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinandjokin Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 You do know that Rutgers opponets have a higher winning percentage than ND's, correct? Again, does ND play the Coast Guard this year? Smokin, are you a bitter Syracuse or Buffalo fan? Just curious. 835727[/snapback] I'm a USC alum and fan. I don't have anything against Rutgers or any other Big East school, and I don't begrudge any of Rutgers victories. I, like you, am a big NCAA FB fan and I watch a lot of games. Many teams that I have seen would beat Rutgers, and Louisville, pretty soundly. I still think WVU is the best team in the conference, but with their defense, even they would struggle against the top-10. Strictly my opinion. Simply going undefeated guarantees you nothing, when you are doing it against sub-par competition. Louisville was a mid-level program who has been building themselves up for YEARS. They have finished ranked in the top-10 a few times and even won a bowl game or two. This was their year where they earned the benefit of the doubt and had a chance at the title game. They blew it. Don't expect Rutgers to get vaulted to the top of the national picture in their first year of winning. They haven't proved anything, other than that they can win games in a light conference. Soak it up, because the program is most definitely on the rise. But that doesn't mean they can step on the field with UM, OSU, Texas, ND, or USC and compete. I don't think they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBTG81 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 CBS: Rutgers 33rd SOS, ND 22ndSagarin: Rutgers 66th, ND 22nd Greenfield: Rutgers 81, ND 66th Massey: Rutgers 45th, ND 13th 835742[/snapback] Now this is interesting... And this is even more interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Now this is interesting... And this is even more interesting... 835770[/snapback] Not sure where he's getting all of that data from that he's using in his post. If you go by schedule played up until this point from Tellshow's site, you get Ohio State - 41st, Rutgers 39th, so that Michigan game does help Ohio State quite a bit. However, if you compare that to other teams: Michigan - 9th, Florida - 2nd, Tennessee - 4th, USC - 6th, Notre Dame - 11th, LSU - 12th, etc. Going purely by current Win/Loss records over the whole schedule (not the schedule played up until this point), or the "Full" rankings on Rich Tellshow's site, you get: Ohio State - 20th, Rutgers - 40th. Compared to a bunch of other teams: USC - 1st; Michigan - 2nd; Texas - 6th; Florida - 9th; Tennessee - 11th; LSU - 12th; Notre Dame - 16th; etc. If you look at his projected ratings (which include games that haven't been played yet), it shows: Ohio State - 23rd, Notre Dame - 24th, Rutgers - 39th. Rutger's schedule hasn't compared to the other teams that we've been putting in the top 10 at this point. Ed, thats why we've been skeptical. *EDIT: Will talk about that 2nd link, give me a sec, you posted it after I started this* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 And this is even more interesting... 835770[/snapback] Those conference rankings take into account BCS rankings as well as other things. They are in no means a measure of how each team's conference schedule in and of itself is, but rather that formula's view of a conference given the BCS, SOS, and other things. If you sort it by SOS, you find that the Big East is ranked 5th, behind a bunch of other conferences. You also see that the Big 12 is ranked 6th. While it is a measure of the whole conference, it doesn't point out individual teams or schedules. In the Big 12, for example, Texas should end up with the 6th toughest schedule in the country. Compare this to, say, Kansas who will end up with the 102nd toughest schedule in the country, based off of his projections. So, there are two things to take from this: A.) My biggest criticism with Rutgers (ie SOS) is in no way answered by comparing conferences, as it lacks the individual view on Rutgers' SOS. B.) These rankings take into account other things that are inflated by ranking teams with lower SOS at the top (The BCS position of Rutgers, West Virginia, and Louisville, which you can argue is occuring because of weaker opponents) helps boost them to the top of these rankings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Ohio st - michigan really is a semi-final game, but with regards to the other 2, which winner do you select? And what are the reasons? All 6 of the teams would have a legit claim to the national title game, after a win in these games. Assuming they finish with one loss, I'd give the nod to the ND/USC winner. Right now ND is the most deserving because their only loss is to one of the top 2 teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted November 14, 2006 Author Share Posted November 14, 2006 Assuming they finish with one loss, I'd give the nod to the ND/USC winner. Right now ND is the most deserving because their only loss is to one of the top 2 teams. 836613[/snapback] The problem i see with that scenario is if ohio st loses, then both teams lost to michigan, and if michigan loses, they both have 1 loss, but michigan beat ND. ***Note: if the game this weekend is a blowout, then the above scenario doesnt have any merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 The problem i see with that scenario is if ohio st loses, then both teams lost to michigan, and if michigan loses, they both have 1 loss, but michigan beat ND. ***Note: if the game this weekend is a blowout, then the above scenario doesnt have any merit. 836635[/snapback] Good points, but I just don't believe in rematches in college football, especially when it's this late in the season. The UM/OSU loser should be out of it, period. This goes back to 1988 when the Thug U whiners wanted another crack at ND. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted November 14, 2006 Author Share Posted November 14, 2006 Good points, but I just don't believe in rematches in college football, especially when it's this late in the season. The UM/OSU loser should be out of it, period.This goes back to 1988 when the Thug U whiners wanted another crack at ND. 836657[/snapback] so if michigan beats ohio st, then what? an ohio st-michigan rematch, or a ND-michigan rematch? or a UF/Arkansas/LSU-michigan title game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartshan-83 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 so if michigan beats ohio st, then what? an ohio st-michigan rematch, or a ND-michigan rematch? or a UF/Arkansas/LSU-michigan title game? 836772[/snapback] I'm not a fan of rematches either, but I think it's different if it is a rematch from September vs. a rematch from a month before the Bowls start. Depending on the score and quality of the game, if Ohio State loses at home on Saturday and a week later ND beats USC on the road, I think the argument could be made that we are playing better football *right now* and therefore deserve to be in the title game more than OSU. And as much as I dislike it, College Football picks it's champions on the "what have you done lately" scale. Everyone loves to point out Notre Dame's inconsistencies, but Ohio State has not exactly cruised their way through everyone. The Penn State win was unconvincing (a team we beat 41-17) and the scare two weeks ago was ugly. Now almost all championship teams have these types of games, so I'm not trying to say that Ohio St. is undeserving. Just that they haven't strung together 11 straight dominations. If they take care of Michigan, then there is no doubt they are the cream of the crop. If Rutgers wins out, then I still think they shouldn't be in the game. But I think it will be very hypocritical for the BCS not to put them in. It was a given that if WVU (and even Louisville) went undefeated, they would have a good a shot as anyone to play in the Fiesta Bowl. So why does that change if a different Big East team goes undefeated? It shouldn't. But like I said, I don't think they should necessarily go just for the reason that I didn't think WVU should necessarily go. But I wouldn't cry about it if they made it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBTG81 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 I'm not a fan of rematches either, but I think it's different if it is a rematch from September vs. a rematch from a month before the Bowls start. Depending on the score and quality of the game, if Ohio State loses at home on Saturday and a week later ND beats USC on the road, I think the argument could be made that we are playing better football *right now* and therefore deserve to be in the title game more than OSU. And as much as I dislike it, College Football picks it's champions on the "what have you done lately" scale. Everyone loves to point out Notre Dame's inconsistencies, but Ohio State has not exactly cruised their way through everyone. The Penn State win was unconvincing (a team we beat 41-17) and the scare two weeks ago was ugly. Now almost all championship teams have these types of games, so I'm not trying to say that Ohio St. is undeserving. Just that they haven't strung together 11 straight dominations. If they take care of Michigan, then there is no doubt they are the cream of the crop. If Rutgers wins out, then I still think they shouldn't be in the game. But I think it will be very hypocritical for the BCS not to put them in. It was a given that if WVU (and even Louisville) went undefeated, they would have a good a shot as anyone to play in the Fiesta Bowl. So why does that change if a different Big East team goes undefeated? It shouldn't. But like I said, I don't think they should necessarily go just for the reason that I didn't think WVU should necessarily go. But I wouldn't cry about it if they made it. 836966[/snapback] I'd rather see a ND/OSU matchup for the NC than a Mich/ND matchup. To me, ND matches up better to OSU than Michigan. If RU can't make it, then I'm pulling for ND all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spun Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Depending on how close this weekend's game is, an OSU - Michigan rematch on a neutral field would be interesting. For comparison: Notre Dame vs, Penn St: 41 - 17 Ohio State vs. Penn St.: 28 - 6 Michigan vs. Penn St.: 17 - 10 Notre Dame vs. Michigan St.: 40 - 37 Ohio State vs. Michigan St.: 38 - 7 Michigan vs. Michigan St.: 31 - 13 Michigan vs. Notre Dame: 47 - 21 Florida is banged up and may struggle against FSU and Arkansas in the SEC title game. USC has games against BCS # 15 Cal, UCLA and BCS # 5 Notre Dame. Notre Dame also plays Army. USC vs. Stanford: 42 - 0 Notre Dame vs. Stanford: 31 - 10 My guess is that the pollsters do not want any rematches. It will be whoever wins out between USC (3 games) and Notre Dame (2 games) versus the OSU - Michigan winner. Old time Rose Bowl football. In Arizona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 If Rutgers gets past Cincinnati they have zero chance of beating West Virginia. I wouldn't be surprised to see Cincinnati knock them off. Most teams will have an off week following a huge win. They benefited from facing Louisville a week after they played West Virginia. Now they will be the ones who have to come off a huge win, and play a good team on the road. Cincinnati is improving every week. They play excellent run defense, and have played well against good teams all year. It will be the last home game they play this season. I knew once the line was released it would plummet so I grabbed Cincinnati +7.5 Sunday night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBTG81 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 If Rutgers gets past Cincinnati they have zero chance of beating West Virginia. I wouldn't be surprised to see Cincinnati knock them off. Most teams will have an off week following a huge win. They benefited from facing Louisville a week after they played West Virginia. Now they will be the ones who have to come off a huge win, and play a good team on the road. Cincinnati is improving every week. They play excellent run defense, and have played well against good teams all year. It will be the last home game they play this season. I knew once the line was released it would plummet so I grabbed Cincinnati +7.5 Sunday night. 839661[/snapback] You're on crack. There is absolutely zero chance RU has a letdown against Cincy. Zero. Rutgers will stop WVU also. Their defense is faster than WVU's offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinandjokin Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Rutgers will stop WVU also. Their defense is faster than WVU's offense. 839703[/snapback] Hahahahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.