zonabb Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 This team has some major flaws, without a doubt. But what really kills me are the people on this board who consistently point to JP as the reason this team is horrible offensively. I am not an apologist for this guy. He makes mistakes, like the rest of the offense. But people here lack the ability to analyze the entire offense because they can only get their tiny minds around stats and somehow always use them to make a point about JP. I can make JP look good with numbers if I do what every one around here does… selectively picking the stats that help make my point. For instance…JP has a better QB rating (18th overall) coming into this game than Roethlisberger, Vick, and Leinart. He has a better completion percentage (14th in the league) than E. Manning (actually beats by thousandths of a percent), Carson Palmer, Jake Delhomme, Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Donovan McNabb…. So you look at that stat and you say “Wow, not bad.” And people use that garbage to try to prove a point. And then someone retorts and says “well, he’s 25th in touchdown percentage and tied for 22nd in TDs.” And then the next guy replies “Yeah but his INT percentage is still better than Brady, Hasselback and Grossman.” Stats are what they are, a means for the people who have no other means to support their opinions because they lack a functioning brain capable of understanding how successful organizations, in this case an offense, operate. My point is, a QB can’t be deemed good or bad only on stats. If you want to use stats to make a point, get the stats for all the offense and try to draw a more complete and comprehensive picture of the offense as a whole that allows people to make a judgment based on a wide group of variables. An offense is supposed to be a cohesive unit, a machine. And like any machine, it can’t be deemed efficient and operational based on the analysis and operation of one part. The offenses problems are many. The line continues to be its worst unit, for the last who knows how many years. That is a result of poor scouting, poor drafting and poor free agent acquisitions. The dumb penalties that people in football like to call “discipline” in my opinion are intelligence issues. Being the husband of a special ed teacher, trust me, some people will never learn. They’re called learning disabled (see University of Miami throughout the league as a good example). Penalties that drive me nuts such as off sides, illegal blocks in the back and encroachment are the result of lack of intelligence. Willis McGahee is average, will always be average and his overinflated ego gets in the way of his ability to get better because he thinks he is the best already (He’s a U prodict that I seem to recall had about a 12 on his Wonderlic). The line is partly to blame, but he doesn’t run hard like we saw Thomas do today. He lacks the ability to get outside (lateral quickness). You want stats, we’re 22nd in rushing yards per game. Is that JPs fault too? It’s a combination of poor blocking and average running. If we’re running JP out of town, then take WM with you. Afterall, conventional wisdom says you have to have a good running game to be successful in this league so it’s all WM’s fault right just like it’s JPs fault alone for the passing game troubles. And that’s where the hypocrisy come out on this board, the same people who says it’s all JP’s fault carry the flag for Willis and blame the line for his woes. How can that be? Play calling from GW to MM to DJ has been a joke. Today they’re running on every 3rd and long and they throw on a 3rd and 1? What are you? Conservative? A running first team? What? The lack of wanting to throw on third and long is an indictment of the line, not a lack of confidence in JP or a belief in the running game. It says “Hey, we can’t get the guy enough time to throw, so let’s just run it and hope for the best.” The conservatives lost Tuesday, time to move on and get some balls. And by the way… we do have TEs right? They are on our roster, right? I think the play calling is really killing this team. No creativity, no quick slants for the WR, no use of the TE to open things up. Horrible. They’re handcuffing Losman by forcing him to stand in there. Let him scramble a little, have more roll outs and bootlegs. Keep the LBs honest. I’m not sure on the WRs. I think Evans can be a #1 but we don’t really have a #2 to take the heat off. And the TE position continues to be an afterthought because they’re mainly used to help a porous OL. And as for JP, he has some flaws but flaws aren’t easy corrected when you can’t get comfortable. You can’t sit back in a non-existent pocket, make your reads and find your WR. You can’t complete plays when you get into your 5th or 7th step and can’t plant because you’re OL is being blown up. Sit back and thing about what you’d do if you were the QB on a pass play and had the TEs are blocking for extra protection; Evans is your most reliable and your time is limited. You probably think that your best chance for success given you time is to lock on Evans and force a pass. I’m not making an excuse, I’m saying that I don’t think he locks in because he doesn’t know how to run progressions, I think he locks out of fear of not having time and the need to make a play. When the guy has time and makes his reads, he’s been decent. But this isn’t a great position to learn in with this OL. The best comparison I can think of is Roethlisberger. Guy comes in with a great OL and is asked to manage a team. He gets time, has a good running game and gets confidence and becomes successful. And Denver, a team with a great OL for the last decade or more that cranks out 1000-yard rushers out of guys like Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson. Until the OL is addressed, I don’t care who the QB is, this team will suck. Sure, a veteran QB might make some more plays because they have more experience, but is this s Super Bowl OL or even playoff OL? No way in hell. I could careless if JP stays or goes. This isn’t an OL they’re gonna win with, ever. Bring in Peyton Manning and you still won’t win. But people on this board would blame him anyway because they’re clueless. It ALL starts with an OL. I have always felt that way and always will. Super Bowl teams all have them!
zow2 Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 I agree that the coaches are really treating JP like he is a NFL rook. They give him very unimaginitive plays to deal with. That might say more about their confidence in his ability to read defense quickly....i don't know. This mythical offensive line you yearn for will never be seen here. It doesn't exist. I'm sitting here watching the injury riddled Giants blow up the Bears wondeful O-line. I'm sure some people in Chicago as we speak are saying "if we had a better O-line, we'd win the Bowl for sure!". I saw Brees and Roethlisberger running for their lives all day and making huge plays out of nothing. Maybe the coaches will experiment and let JP just go out and make plays or maybe JP will get sick of playing under wraps and just play loose. One thing is for sure...he is not good and he makes the O-line look much worse than they even are.
Bflojohn Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 Case in point today.... Jason Peters gets beat by Dwight Freeney, but gets JUST enough of him to ride him wide and Freeney ONLY gets a hand on J.P. Losman. The conventional "wisdom" on this and other boards is Losman will NOT step up. Well, lo and behold he does and guess what.... he steps right into Anthony McFarland up the middle! Why, you may ask? Well, it is because Mike Gandy had NOTHING BETTER TO DO other than watch Jason Peters on the play! I'm NOT joking here either, the guy stands there observing the carnage and HIS GUY goes in for the sack! Go watch this play yourself and see if I'm kidding! I couldn't believe this play and it TYPIFIES the nature of THE PROBLEM... this O-line needs to be blown up, without question! Peters stays, Fowler MAYBE (More a quality back-up), and rebuild the entire unit from scratch. I'm completely convinced that free agency and the draft BETTER solve this GLARING problem or this squad will NEVER WIN! Plain and simple!
1billsfan Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 Wow, some one has still got their faculties around here! Excellent post. Jim Kelly in his prime would suck eggs behind this line, which continues to let DEs and DTs go untouched on route to the quarterback. JP's ability as a QB is still an unknown. Is he good, bad, average? Abosolutely no one knows, it's impossible to gauge with him having only one second to get rid of the ball. I think the people ragging on Losman's lack of playmaking ability don't understand football at all. This line is garbage when it comes to protecting the quarterback. I've never seen worse pass blocking at the NFL level than this bunch we have here in Buffalo. Yet the simpletons want JP benched, not giving any creedence what so ever to the jokers not protecting him. This team needs to start building up the trenches, not draft another 1st round QB to get skewered by both the line and the hotpocket fans calling for his head. But I guess there will forever be fans wanting to put the cart before the horse.
Rubes Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 I can't really say that I disagree with any of that. This organization has been striking out on offensive linemen for so long, both in the draft and through free agency, that we are just a mess.
JStranger76 Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 One of the best posts I have ever read. Thank you.
Captain Hindsight Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 I can't really say that I disagree with any of that. This organization has been striking out on offensive linemen for so long, both in the draft and through free agency, that we are just a mess. 834719[/snapback] in the post game report DJ said that pass protection has been such a problem that they have had to cut back on it. 4 sacks on 17 attempts is pathetic by any means
Catholic Guilt Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 EXCELLENT POST - ALL BILLS FANS PLEASE READ THE ABOVE POSTING BY A SANE AND SMART FAN!
MadBuffaloDisease Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 Jauron said in the post-game that they ran so much because of pass protection problems.
JStranger76 Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 Exactly. The line is so friggen bad it limits what plays we can call. If we would have passed in those situations today all 3 of our QB's would be in the hospital.
dhgold Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 "The line continues to be its worst unit, for the last who knows how many years. That is a result of poor scouting, poor drafting and poor free agent acquisitions. " Poor coaching must also play a role as it also must with the recurrent penalties you mentioned.
MadBuffaloDisease Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 All the more reason to allow JP to move around. I don't get it.
Abbott Rd Joe Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 Solid post it all starts up front. It's no mystery that this team has major problems on the O & D lines and will not go anywhere until they are seriously addressed. The game has become over analyzed and too technical. I see coaching staffs of 7 or 8 on the sidelines for a high school football game. I never played organized football (one year of little loop at age 11 doesn't really count) but your last name need not be Lombardi, Parcells or Landry to realize you need to control the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball to consistantly win at any level. It's a simple credo - Protect the Quarterback and get to the Quarterback. The Bills can't do either. I know the D played well today and sat back most of the game to negate the big play on Indy, but was Manning even hurried once today, let alone sacked??? Don't think so... I believe another tackle and a stud pash rusher are priorities 1 and 1A. If Marv wants to take a mid to late round flyer on a QB next year, all the power to him.
Mark Vader Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 Case in point today.... Jason Peters gets beat by Dwight Freeney, but gets JUST enough of him to ride him wide and Freeney ONLY gets a hand on J.P. Losman. The conventional "wisdom" on this and other boards is Losman will NOT step up. Well, lo and behold he does and guess what.... he steps right into Anthony McFarland up the middle! Why, you may ask? Well, it is because Mike Gandy had NOTHING BETTER TO DO other than watch Jason Peters on the play! I'm NOT joking here either, the guy stands there observing the carnage and HIS GUY goes in for the sack! Go watch this play yourself and see if I'm kidding! I couldn't believe this play and it TYPIFIES the nature of THE PROBLEM... this O-line needs to be blown up, without question! Peters stays, Fowler MAYBE (More a quality back-up), and rebuild the entire unit from scratch. I'm completely convinced that free agency and the draft BETTER solve this GLARING problem or this squad will NEVER WIN! Plain and simple! 834689[/snapback] I saw that play too and I could not believe my eyes. At first when the play happened everyone blamed JP for not getting rid of the ball. Then when they showed the replay and we all saw Gandy turning away to watch Freeney, leaving McFarland to go in for the sack, I yelled to everyone "DID YOU SEE THAT!?" And everyone still blamed JP. Unbelieveable
Bill from NYC Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 Wow, some one has still got their faculties around here! Excellent post. Jim Kelly in his prime would suck eggs behind this line, which continues to let DEs and DTs go untouched on route to the quarterback. JP's ability as a QB is still an unknown. Is he good, bad, average? Abosolutely no one knows, it's impossible to gauge with him having only one second to get rid of the ball. I think the people ragging on Losman's lack of playmaking ability don't understand football at all. This line is garbage when it comes to protecting the quarterback. I've never seen worse pass blocking at the NFL level than this bunch we have here in Buffalo. Yet the simpletons want JP benched, not giving any creedence what so ever to the jokers not protecting him. This team needs to start building up the trenches, not draft another 1st round QB to get skewered by both the line and the hotpocket fans calling for his head. But I guess there will forever be fans wanting to put the cart before the horse. 834700[/snapback] This is pretty much how I feel about JP. I also think for what little it is worth that he looked better yesterday than he did against GB. Everything you said above is true, and can be coupled with the fact that JP is an inexperienced product of Tulane, where he ran for his life against better teams. In this sense, I don't fully blame the coaches for keeping him in the pocket. He already knows how to scramble for his life. What he needs to do is learn the NFL game. Is he in fact learning? This is debatable due to the complete lack of blocking. JP may or may not be the answer, but I am having a rough time trying to answer this question.
Bill from NYC Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 I saw that play too and I could not believe my eyes. At first when the play happened everyone blamed JP for not getting rid of the ball. Then when they showed the replay and we all saw Gandy turning away to watch Freeney, leaving McFarland to go in for the sack, I yelled to everyone "DID YOU SEE THAT!?" And everyone still blamed JP. Unbelieveable 834854[/snapback] The Gandy situation is puzzling to say the least. If Gandy (a ufa in 07) would have given us (and himself) a semi-decent season, he would be looking at a 20 million dollar/5 year contract, or something thereabout. LTs such as Jennings and Backus are by no means great, yet they signed for HUGE bucks. At this point, he is reduced to being a bad OG. What is the problem? I honestly can say that I would rather see Merz in there.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 Bravo. But I can see draft day next year: "Well, we're losing Nate Clements, so we HAVE to take a CB in the first." Same sh--, different year.
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