GG Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 100%? Maybe not but do you think the Sabres team of last year or this year would be playoff bound if games were called the way they were in the 1990s? 834362[/snapback] So you think that if not for the rules, Sabres wouldn't even be a playoff team with the solid D, goaltending and 4 quality lines? M'kay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Except that the stated position from OBD from day one of the new regime is that this year the focus was going to be mostly on defense, considering how bad that unit had quickly gotten. With the direction this team was heading last year, there's no way no how you could have addressed alll issues at once. So the question for admin becomes, do we focus on one side, or pick the best players for the OL that are available at that slot. Yeah, an OL would have been nice in 1st round, but how could you justify picking Mangold with the traded pick with Fowler on the roster and knowing that Tim Anderson is your DT of the future. I agree that you need to build from indide out, but you cannot say that they have not been focusing on the DL this year. Not a good defense yet, but light years away from last year's disaster. This is not a defense that this is a good team now. But, it would also be nice to have some perspective on where this team is heading towards the end of this year and next. 834341[/snapback] The answer was that this team was so bad in so many places that it made sense to trade down, pick up more picks and plug as many holes at possible. Instead, this regime decided do just the opposite and actually lost picks. This team was going to be bad. It really didn't matter if they got Whitner or not, this team was going to be to young or lacking the talent to really compete. The one positive thing that could have determined this season was whether or not Losman was starting QB material in the NFL. To do that, he had to be surrounded him with decent protection and talent. This regime has not surrounded him with protection and actually traded away talent. I fear we will come away with nothing this year but a bad record, a question mark at QB and knowledge that our OL sucks. No different than last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Two word answer: Dick Jauron. This loss is on the coaches. 833986[/snapback] Anyone but Losman, as usual.... I suppose that holding Peyton Manning to 17 points had nothing to do with coaching, eh? JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 So you think that if not for the rules, Sabres wouldn't even be a playoff team with the solid D, goaltending and 4 quality lines? M'kay... 834381[/snapback] I think a good part of those lines would have been KOed under the old rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Last year's defense would have given up 40 to the Colts. Let's not get out of focus here. The defense needs improvement but is headed well in that direction. Solving the offensive line problems around here will make atleast 10 other fan favorite issues go away quickly. 834377[/snapback] This is about all that needs to be said about the game. We hung with Indy, I wasn't expecting even that much to happen, and a couple plays could have changed the outcome entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted November 12, 2006 Author Share Posted November 12, 2006 The defence kept one of the top ranked offences to 17 points and that is far from being good? Everyone expected the Bills to get blown out and the game wouldn't even get close, now that they keep it close and almost win, everyone is complaining cause they didn't play good enough to win the game 834262[/snapback] We found out how good that defense was on the last drive when they had to move up and stop the run one time all game. But I'm sure that was excusable because Indianapolis was only running for about 6 yards per play all day. It was a smart gameplan, but if Indy doesn't fumble the football they score 30+ points in addition to the gaudy yardage and time of posession numbers. More than anything, it was a chance for Nate Clements haters to see what they will be missing if he leaves. He was awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 For the Whitner pick to ever look wise, the team would have to get rich on the lines REAL quick. 834051[/snapback] This is revisionist history. There were not a lot of high first-round OLine prospects in this year's draft. Whom would you have had the Bills take, Winston Justice? Has he even dressed for an NFL game this year? High draft picks are not a panacea - just look at what Robert Gallery is doing in Oakland (he's been doing pretty bad by all accounts.) We also shouldn't forget that our defense was atrocious last year, and could neither stop the pass nor the run. JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 This is revisionist history. There were not a lot of high first-round OLine prospects in this year's draft. Whom would you have had the Bills take, Winston Justice? Has he even dressed for an NFL game this year? High draft picks are not a panacea - just look at what Robert Gallery is doing in Oakland (he's been doing pretty bad by all accounts.) We also shouldn't forget that our defense was atrocious last year, and could neither stop the pass nor the run. JDG 834453[/snapback] Yeah you are right, everyone just loved that pick and just like there were no better options than Willis McGahee when the Bills were on the clock a few years back, there were no good OL or good trade options available to the Bills last year. Drafting is a lot like the running game, you have to stick with what you know works. For the Bills, that's drafting a DB in round 1 eight times in twenty years and using 3 other firsts and a couple #2's trying to find a QB to complement that wonderful secondary. It is the draft John, it is the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Yeah you are right, everyone just loved that pick and just like there were no better options than Willis McGahee when the Bills were on the clock a few years back, there were no good OL or good trade options available to the Bills last year. This is a red herring, as I don't think the McGahee pick was part of this discussion so afr. Drafting is a lot like the running game, you have to stick with what you know works. For the Bills, that's drafting a DB in round 1 eight times in twenty years and using 3 other firsts and a couple #2's trying to find a QB to complement that wonderful secondary. It is the draft John, it is the draft. 834895[/snapback] I think that I've presented some preliminary evidence that some very successful teams don't necessarily pump a lot of high draft picks into the Offensinve Line. Meanwhile, I absolutely do agree that you should spend high draft picks on the most important position, the QB position. The problem isn't spending those picks on that position, its on the quality of the product we got for our expenditures (two straight busts, soon to be three by all indications...) JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB2004 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Considering the heavy emphasis on the run and short passes, I can't remember a worse performance by the Bills OL. This wasn't a case of missed blitzes or stunts, just straight up every time they tried to throw the ball they allowed instant pressure by the man in front of them. Congratulations to the staff for playing to their teams strengths, but this OL has hit rock f'ing bottom. 833803[/snapback] I think we have seen that Jason Peters next season will be playing right tackle, hopefully. Left tackle needs to be our number one priority next year in the first round of the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 This is revisionist history. There were not a lot of high first-round OLine prospects in this year's draft. Whom would you have had the Bills take, Winston Justice? Has he even dressed for an NFL game this year? High draft picks are not a panacea - just look at what Robert Gallery is doing in Oakland (he's been doing pretty bad by all accounts.) We also shouldn't forget that our defense was atrocious last year, and could neither stop the pass nor the run. JDG 834453[/snapback] My first choice for the Bills' pick would have been to take a quarterback like Cutler or Leinart. If upon close inspection I didn't like what I saw from those two, my second choice would be to trade down and take an offensive lineman like Mangold. And don't tell me how great an offensive lineman Fowler is, or that we didn't need a Mangold. That's like saying the Bills didn't need a strong safety, because they'd signed Matt Bowen. The Bills need to build the offensive line. Bargain basement free agents haven't worked. Aging free agents haven't worked. Low-round draft picks haven't worked. At some point, you have to start using first day draft picks on offensive linemen. I'd be perfectly happy if the Bills draft a quarterback with their first round pick in 2007, a right tackle with their second round pick, and an offensive guard with their third rounder. If they use their 4th round pick on another OG, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Anyone but Losman, as usual.... I suppose that holding Peyton Manning to 17 points had nothing to do with coaching, eh? JDG 834391[/snapback] There's that, then there's the 7 points the defense scored. The Colts' offense was held to ten net points. Then you figure in the fact that special teams created a field goal opportunity because of the good McGee runback, and all the offense had to do for the whole game was score seven points. Ten points, if you figure Indy could have gotten a FG at the end. Is 7 - 10 points really too much to ask from your offense when you play the Indianapolis Colts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 It's not really about this past offseason. That is an unrealistic expectation to point at a single off-season. Offensive linemen need to be developed or picked up in FA, and we picked up a decent center in FA. We could have drafted one with the Mccargo pick , sure. We needed to be developing guys over the past 5 years and haven't. 833907[/snapback] I can't say I'm sold on Fowler, who I thought was a good acquisition when we got him. I pointed to how well he played in relief of All Pro C Matt Birk in Minnesota @ the time. But this year, I've seen him botch shotgun snaps, blow line calls, show poor footwork, and no strength @ the point of attack. Maybe he's just having a bad year, or maybe he just isn't what I though he'd be for the Bills. I just don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I can't say I'm sold on Fowler, who I thought was a good acquisition when we got him. I pointed to how well he played in relief of All Pro C Matt Birk in Minnesota @ the time. But this year, I've seen him botch shotgun snaps, blow line calls, show poor footwork, and no strength @ the point of attack. Maybe he's just having a bad year, or maybe he just isn't what I though he'd be for the Bills. I just don't know. 835075[/snapback] Shotgun snaps? I haven't seen the shotgun much, if at all, this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I think that I've presented some preliminary evidence that some very successful teams don't necessarily pump a lot of high draft picks into the Offensinve Line. 834902[/snapback] The Bills were in a position where they needed to, though. It's not like we have a mediocre line. We have a TERRIBLE, vomit-inducing line, and there's a cascading effect of hampering the development of the other skill players. We don't have nearly as much information about JP Losman as we could have if he were allowed to throw the ball 20-25 times a game. It's almost like a wasted season because now we'll have to "find out about him" next year as well. It was just plain dumb for the Bills to enter this season with the line we have and Marv needs to learn that football games are won at the line of scrimmage. It's laughable that we have an 80-something-year-old GM who is learning on the job but that's where we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I remember a lot of people in here saying that it didn't make any sense to draft any OL on Day 1 last April 833914[/snapback] Burn them at the stake! The good news is that we are only 3 decent O-lineman away from fielding a competitive offense. The bad news is we haven't drafted/traded for/signed a vet O-lineman who could be considered decent in over 5 friggin years. If you're of a mind you could say the last 9 years. More good news...we got the mouse, he can make cheese out of turds. Course they are just cheese turds. Hate to say it about a local guy, but he gots to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 We don't have nearly as much information about JP Losman as we could have if he were allowed to throw the ball 20-25 times a game. It's almost like a wasted season because now we'll have to "find out about him" next year as well. 835087[/snapback] You mean like we had him do in the Chicago game, and the Detroit game, and to a lesser degree, in the New England game? That turned out real well, eh? One of the reasons why JP Losman has limited attempts is because he doesn't sustain drives.... when you are consistently having short drives, you have fewer offensive plays, with fewer opportunities to throw..... JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 You mean like we had him do in the Chicago game, and the Detroit game, and to a lesser degree, in the New England game? That turned out real well, eh? One of the reasons why JP Losman has limited attempts is because he doesn't sustain drives.... when you are consistently having short drives, you have fewer offensive plays, with fewer opportunities to throw..... JDG 835125[/snapback] There's that, and there's the fact that we're afraid to call pass plays because nearly every time we do its either a sack or a pass that has to be made without a pocket to step up into. Not to mention we don't have one good recieving option at ANY of the eligible positions. I'm not an "anybody but Losman" blind apologist. I'm simply reserving judgment on him because from my observations, he still hasn't been given a realistic oppurtunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Burn them at the stake! The good news is that we are only 3 decent O-lineman away from fielding a competitive offense. The bad news is we haven't drafted/traded for/signed a vet O-lineman who could be considered decent in over 5 friggin years. If you're of a mind you could say the last 9 years. More good news...we got the mouse, he can make cheese out of turds. Course they are just cheese turds. Hate to say it about a local guy, but he gots to go. 835100[/snapback] Hahaha!!! I don't know if McNally should be fired just yet, but isn't it time we hold him accoutable for the state of our line instead of making excuses for him? We have 2 capable starters? Peters is decent, though if I'm to believe what's said of him, he's a Pro Bowl tackle. Uh, not yet. Anyway, after him, I'd be hard pressed to find a decent starter from our current group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I don't know if McNally should be fired just yet, but isn't it time we hold him accoutable for the state of our line instead of making excuses for him? 835138[/snapback] At the very least, yes, it's is accountability time. One more person to be held accountable...What is Tom Modrak doing to urn his paycheck? What has he done the past 3 years? Miraculously Philly has survived his departure, and I think we could do the same. p.s. I voted for your avatar as the sexiest on TBD, keep up the good work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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