Dan Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 OK. I decided to look objectively at how much time Losman has before he throws or gets sacked. So I watched the Packer game and recorded from the time the ball was snapped until he threw it, got sacked, or took off running. Then I thought why not compare to Manning and Brady, the game was on NFL Replay. I could only do part of that game, because my wife was demanding the TV back. None the less, I was surprised by the numbers. I thought JP would have far less time to throw, what I found was quite different. Here's the numbers and my conclusions: JP's Time: 03.7 complete 03.1 incomplete royal not seen 02.3 quick pa to shelton 02.5 sack -pennington beat 03.8 short underneath to evans 03.6 royal dropped - over db on royals hands 02.0 designed dump off to AT 03.3 sack up middle 01.7 complete 3step drop to reed 02.8 scramble to avoid sack 02.9 down field to evans - drop on his hands safety was there if thrown longer 01.9 rollout complete to price 02.9 sack 03.0 incomplete to royal - near interception 03.9 sack 03.2 incomplete high to davis 02.8 short to shelton - designed 03.4 sack up middle 03.2 incomplete - tipped 01.9 incomplete royal drop - low pass 03.6 touchdown to evans 7-14 (5 sacks) (so I missed one somewhere) Min: 1.7 seconds Max: 3.9 seconds Mean: 2.9 seconds Incomplete pass to Price in 1st quarter; he had Royal underneath, but appeared to be going for the touchdown and over threw. On dropped pass to Evans that was short; the safety was deep and if the ball is thrown deeper, he'd definitely have a play on the ball. So not a bad throw afterall, in my opinion. Peyton's Time: 02.9 incompete 02.3 incomplete 05.0 compete - scrambled left 02.4 complete 04.1 complete 02.2 touchdown 02.5 complete 02.8 complete 02.6 complete 03.8 complete 03.7 incomplete -PI 02.7 sack 02.9 intereference 01.4 complete 02.3 incomplete 03.8 thrown away 03.1 sack 02.8 complete 04.6 pressured complete 04.1 complete 01.2 touchdown 13-19 (2 sacks) (selected - I didn't watch the whole game) Min: 1.2 seconds Max: 5.0 seconds Mean: 3.0 seconds Brady's Time: 02.9 complete 02.0 complete 02.4 complete 03.4 complete 02.0 complete 01.8 complete 02.9 scrambles 02.1 incomplete interference 02.5 incomplete 03.7 incomplete 6-9 (0 sacks) (selected - I didn't watch the whole game) Min: 1.8 seconds Max: 3.7 seconds Mean: 2.6 seconds =============================================================================== It appears from these limited numbers that JP has just about the same amount of time to throw as Manning and Brady. However (JP haters knew that was coming), on every pass the Buffalo LOS is getting pushed into JP's face. There was almost no pocket to step into. There was almost no separation between him and the pass rush. In contrast, although Brady and Manning got rid of the ball just as quickly; they had far more separation between them and the rush. Quite often, they could step up in the pocket and really get behind their throws. In conclusion, given this very limited sample survey, I'd offer that the Buffalo line does give JP time to throw. However, they're consistently getting pushed backwards. The result is JP "appears" to have less time in the pocket and defintely is making more "hurried" throws. The other observation, that seems to be missing from Buffalo's passing protection is the occurence of "passing lanes". There are no clear lanes for JP to readily see the reciever. Manning seemed to consistently have great passing lanes to readily see the field. The other decidedly noticeable observation was the play calling. The Pats and Colts defintely seem to mix the plays up better. Of course, its very obvious that Manning and Brady are definitely more polished QBs; therefore, they're easily able to scan the field and make the quicker decision. Given the separation when they threw, I'd guess they could have easily had an extra 0.5 second to throw the ball; whereas JP seemed to always throw at the last possible instant. Talk amongst yourselves... *Disclaimer - I'm not the best with math, so please check my addition and division, if you wish. I also missed a pass in the Bills game and because I was watching Replay, I certainly did not get all the passes for Manning and Brady. However, these numbers do show a trend which I think is representative of reality for these 2 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eSJayDee Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Nice work. A few comments: I'd tend to discount the Brady stats, as their offense is predictated more on 'quick' passes. As for your observation that JP has no room & relative to the other QBs, waits for the last possible second, it'd be interesting to see hurries & hits stats. Now let me add this, which is largely a subjective opinion, I think most times, Manning has as time as he wants/needs whereas it appears that often it appears that JP is getting rid of the ball out of necessity rather than desire. How much of that is attributable to the particular QBs skill & how much to the talent of his supporting cast is open to debate. (Also how much different schemes come into play.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PNW_Bills_Fan Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Nice work. A few comments: I'd tend to discount the Brady stats, as their offense is predictated more on 'quick' passes. As for your observation that JP has no room & relative to the other QBs, waits for the last possible second, it'd be interesting to see hurries & hits stats. Now let me add this, which is largely a subjective opinion, I think most times, Manning has as time as he wants/needs whereas it appears that often it appears that JP is getting rid of the ball out of necessity rather than desire. How much of that is attributable to the particular QBs skill & how much to the talent of his supporting cast is open to debate. (Also how much different schemes come into play.) 831986[/snapback] I think you are comparing apples to oranges. You have established teams with lots of talent on both the line and the WR. Where as we are trying to put together a line that can block and fid WR that can get open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 OK. I decided to look objectively at how much time Losman has before he throws or gets sacked. So I watched the Packer game and recorded from the time the ball was snapped until he threw it, got sacked, or took off running. Then I thought why not compare to Manning and Brady, the game was on NFL Replay. I could only do part of that game, because my wife was demanding the TV back. None the less, I was surprised by the numbers. I thought JP would have far less time to throw, what I found was quite different. Here's the numbers and my conclusions: JP's Time: 03.7 complete 03.1 incomplete royal not seen 02.3 quick pa to shelton 02.5 sack -pennington beat 03.8 short underneath to evans 03.6 royal dropped - over db on royals hands 02.0 designed dump off to AT 03.3 sack up middle 01.7 complete 3step drop to reed 02.8 scramble to avoid sack 02.9 down field to evans - drop on his hands safety was there if thrown longer 01.9 rollout complete to price 02.9 sack 03.0 incomplete to royal - near interception 03.9 sack 03.2 incomplete high to davis 02.8 short to shelton - designed 03.4 sack up middle 03.2 incomplete - tipped 01.9 incomplete royal drop - low pass 03.6 touchdown to evans 7-14 (5 sacks) (so I missed one somewhere) Min: 1.7 seconds Max: 3.9 seconds Mean: 2.9 seconds Incomplete pass to Price in 1st quarter; he had Royal underneath, but appeared to be going for the touchdown and over threw. On dropped pass to Evans that was short; the safety was deep and if the ball is thrown deeper, he'd definitely have a play on the ball. So not a bad throw afterall, in my opinion. Peyton's Time: 02.9 incompete 02.3 incomplete 05.0 compete - scrambled left 02.4 complete 04.1 complete 02.2 touchdown 02.5 complete 02.8 complete 02.6 complete 03.8 complete 03.7 incomplete -PI 02.7 sack 02.9 intereference 01.4 complete 02.3 incomplete 03.8 thrown away 03.1 sack 02.8 complete 04.6 pressured complete 04.1 complete 01.2 touchdown 13-19 (2 sacks) (selected - I didn't watch the whole game) Min: 1.2 seconds Max: 5.0 seconds Mean: 3.0 seconds Brady's Time: 02.9 complete 02.0 complete 02.4 complete 03.4 complete 02.0 complete 01.8 complete 02.9 scrambles 02.1 incomplete interference 02.5 incomplete 03.7 incomplete 6-9 (0 sacks) (selected - I didn't watch the whole game) Min: 1.8 seconds Max: 3.7 seconds Mean: 2.6 seconds =============================================================================== It appears from these limited numbers that JP has just about the same amount of time to throw as Manning and Brady. However (JP haters knew that was coming), on every pass the Buffalo LOS is getting pushed into JP's face. There was almost no pocket to step into. There was almost no separation between him and the pass rush. In contrast, although Brady and Manning got rid of the ball just as quickly; they had far more separation between them and the rush. Quite often, they could step up in the pocket and really get behind their throws. In conclusion, given this very limited sample survey, I'd offer that the Buffalo line does give JP time to throw. However, they're consistently getting pushed backwards. The result is JP "appears" to have less time in the pocket and defintely is making more "hurried" throws. The other observation, that seems to be missing from Buffalo's passing protection is the occurence of "passing lanes". There are no clear lanes for JP to readily see the reciever. Manning seemed to consistently have great passing lanes to readily see the field. The other decidedly noticeable observation was the play calling. The Pats and Colts defintely seem to mix the plays up better. Of course, its very obvious that Manning and Brady are definitely more polished QBs; therefore, they're easily able to scan the field and make the quicker decision. Given the separation when they threw, I'd guess they could have easily had an extra 0.5 second to throw the ball; whereas JP seemed to always throw at the last possible instant. Talk amongst yourselves... *Disclaimer - I'm not the best with math, so please check my addition and division, if you wish. I also missed a pass in the Bills game and because I was watching Replay, I certainly did not get all the passes for Manning and Brady. However, these numbers do show a trend which I think is representative of reality for these 2 games. 831962[/snapback] I am not trying to criticize you here because you have already recognized some of the flaws in your study (small sample size, for example). However, you results do not really seem to prove what you think it indicates. Your numbers are showing how long the QBs hold the ball, not how much time they have. That is interesting because you would have no idea how much time Manning, Brady, and Losman would have had if they had not chosen to throw the ball. Your numbers, while clearly not enough to prove anything, tend to show that Losman holds the ball for less time than Manning (2.9 to 3.0 sec) and only slightly more than Brady (2.9 to 2.6 sec). In addition, on plays where you indicate pressure, Losman had 3.13 seconds while Manning had 3.55 seconds until pressure. Brady apparently felt no pressure. While none of this is anywhere near conclusive, I don't think the data reflects negatively on Losman at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sen. John Blutarsky Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 I think you hit upon the important piece of this data when you noted that there was no pocket most times when JP threw. Lack of a pocket = pressure. Losman is pressured almost every time he throws while Brady and Manning can have tea behind their lines on a regular basis. Having the line right in your face certainly plays an important role in pass selection and accuracy. 3 of the 5 Green Bay sacks last week came from up the middle, not from the edges, those sacks are harder to avoid and pressure like that does much more to disrupt the QB since he can see it coming (and not through it to see where the WR and/or coverage is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted November 10, 2006 Author Share Posted November 10, 2006 Nice work. A few comments: I'd tend to discount the Brady stats, as their offense is predictated more on 'quick' passes. As for your observation that JP has no room & relative to the other QBs, waits for the last possible second, it'd be interesting to see hurries & hits stats. Now let me add this, which is largely a subjective opinion, I think most times, Manning has as time as he wants/needs whereas it appears that often it appears that JP is getting rid of the ball out of necessity rather than desire. How much of that is attributable to the particular QBs skill & how much to the talent of his supporting cast is open to debate. (Also how much different schemes come into play.) 831986[/snapback] Definitely. The Colts and Pats both have a great quick passing game and thast definitely skews numbers like these. Many of PM's and TB's throws were quick slants. So, how much time would they have had if they hadn't thrown it within 2 seconds. By the way, the average handoff time appeared to be about 1.3 seconds (not official, just somthing I noticed when I recorded the time thinking it was a pass). The Colts & Pats definitely have better offenses and supporting casts. There's no doubt about that. My intention was only to look at JP's time to throw. I thought it would be much lower, but it wasn't. I think what's most telling about this simple analysis is it points to the difference between Quality and Quantity. Although all 3 qbs had simialr Quantities of time; Manning and Brady seemed to have far better Quality time to find an open reciever and throw. Also, I think this points to the difference between looking at stats and looking at the game. Stat-wise, they have similar time, but if you actually watch the game you see a different story. Sometimes numbers do lie. (It's kinda like mythbusters episode - does driving fast over speed bumps lead to a less bumpy ride. They had data to show the ride was actually much bumpier at higher speeds, but the driver said it "felt" less bumpy. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLuca1967 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 although Brady and Manning got rid of the ball just as quickly; they had far more separation between them and the rush. 831962[/snapback] Brady and Manning create their seperation. They slide a step to one side. They step up. They have a real sense of what's going on around them. They feel it instead of having to see it. Which is why it is so disturbing that Losman has shown very little in this area. I'm not sure if that is something you just have or something you can acquire through time. One way of getting things done even though your line is sub par is to have a QB that can maximize the pocket he does have. Good QB's can sense were the pressure is coming from. And in 2006, where they are at most 4-5 very good offensice lines, you have to learn to get things done in the face of pressure. Very few QB's can stand back there without fearing being hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted November 10, 2006 Author Share Posted November 10, 2006 I am not trying to criticize you here because you have already recognized some of the flaws in your study (small sample size, for example). However, you results do not really seem to prove what you think it indicates. Your numbers are showing how long the QBs hold the ball, not how much time they have. That is interesting because you would have no idea how much time Manning, Brady, and Losman would have had if they had not chosen to throw the ball. Your numbers, while clearly not enough to prove anything, tend to show that Losman holds the ball for less time than Manning (2.9 to 3.0 sec) and only slightly more than Brady (2.9 to 2.6 sec). In addition, on plays where you indicate pressure, Losman had 3.13 seconds while Manning had 3.55 seconds until pressure. Brady apparently felt no pressure. While none of this is anywhere near conclusive, I don't think the data reflects negatively on Losman at all. 831996[/snapback] I'd completely agree with your assessment. And I thought of that... this is definitely not a measure of how much time they had to throw, but how long until they did throw or get sacked/run. This was just an attempt to see, is there a difference in the amount of time that JP has vs Manning (I actually threw Brady in as an afterthough - hence less numbers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted November 10, 2006 Author Share Posted November 10, 2006 Brady and Manning create their seperation. They slide a step to one side. They step up. They have a real sense of what's going on around them. They feel it instead of having to see it. Which is why it is so disturbing that Losman has shown very little in this area. I'm not sure if that is something you just have or something you can acquire through time. One way of getting things done even though your line is sub par is to have a QB that can maximize the pocket he does have. Good QB's can sense were the pressure is coming from. And in 2006, where they are at most 4-5 very good offensice lines, you have to learn to get things done in the face of pressure. Very few QB's can stand back there without fearing being hit. 832004[/snapback] I would agree that Manning and Brady created alot. They certainly step up; however, I really don't think JP had much to step up into. Therefore, that option is out (at least in the GB game). However, it did seem that Manning (not Brady so much) stepped back quite a bit to create some separation. He almost seems to drift back while scanning. Perhaps that's something learned. I don't really know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted November 10, 2006 Author Share Posted November 10, 2006 I think you hit upon the important piece of this data when you noted that there was no pocket most times when JP threw. Lack of a pocket = pressure. Losman is pressured almost every time he throws while Brady and Manning can have tea behind their lines on a regular basis. Having the line right in your face certainly plays an important role in pass selection and accuracy. 3 of the 5 Green Bay sacks last week came from up the middle, not from the edges, those sacks are harder to avoid and pressure like that does much more to disrupt the QB since he can see it coming (and not through it to see where the WR and/or coverage is) 832001[/snapback] Exactly, this is something I've wondered for a while. But, I'm not sure hw to measure it. JP seems pressured far more than average. He may have time, but he's under pressure that whole time. And had very few lanes to pass through. Not to mention, his receivers don't bail him out much. The drops by Royal and Evans were huge fowl ups by the recievers. All of that leads to less confidence and more pressure on the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUFootball29 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Dude...you have too much time on your hands. (j/king at least you are taking the time and really looking at the game then speaking instead of analyzing a box score like the vast majority of sports writers and critics) Actually, I bet if you looked around the league at all 32 QB times they'd all be between 2.9 and 3.2 for a mean. Like the others have said though, it not just time to the QB that is causing problems. There are other factors that need to be considered in this equation if we are looking at the mere physical aspects of this. 1. Where is the pressure coming from? Blindside pressure will cause more problems than frontside pressure in the same amount of time. 2. Type of play being executed. Generally, you'll have more time from snap to throw for a Play-action pass than a dropback pass, but these plays also take more time to setup. 3. Supporting cast. The quality of receivers and TE's vary dramatically from team to team. The Colts have a solid corps of receivers that help Manning make plays out of nothing. Brady has 2 solid TE's with reliable hands and an offense designed for quick passes. Losman on the other hand is lacking both big play receivers and a reliable TE. Then it comes down to the mental factor. Manning is being touted as a top 3 all time QB by numerous sources and is a proven winner in months that end in BER. Brady rode a hot streak to a Super Bowl win and never lost his confidence after that. JP on the other hand has been put in a situation with a less than stellar team, 2 coaches and pro style offenses in 3 years, an expectation of fans to be the next Jim Kelly and lead a mediocre team to a Super Bowl or else get run out of town. Now, I'm not saying that JP would be the next coming if he were playing for the Colts or Patsies, but I bet his numbers would be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bflojohn Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 My simple retort is the New England Patriots against the Buffalo Bills at the Ralph....On Tom Bradys' TD pass to the rookie WR Chad Jackson, you could have timed that throw with a sun dial when considering release. He literally had ALL DAY and if the play was still running, the Bills front would still be stymied at the LOS!!!! I dare anyone to point up a play for J.P. that afforded him THAT kind of time. IMO, 98% of the time he is harried and pressured or sacked outright. This argument is truly apples and oranges when Brady and Manning get used in the sample data, J.P. is NOT a mature QB in their vein and his supporting cast should be sued for NON-support!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted November 10, 2006 Author Share Posted November 10, 2006 My simple retort is the New England Patriots against the Buffalo Bills at the Ralph....On Tom Bradys' TD pass to the rookie WR Chad Jackson, you could have timed that throw with a sun dial when considering release. He literally had ALL DAY and if the play was still running, the Bills front would still be stymied at the LOS!!!! I dare anyone to point up a play for J.P. that afforded him THAT kind of time. IMO, 98% of the time he is harried and pressured or sacked outright. This argument is truly apples and oranges when Brady and Manning get used in the sample data, J.P. is NOT a mature QB in their vein and his supporting cast should be sued for NON-support!! 832039[/snapback] My intent was to attempt a comparison between Buffalo's O-line (which many will argue as being one of the worst in the league) and Indy's O-line (which could be considered one of the best in the league). I threw in the Pats only because they were playing the Colts; therefore, I had the data right infront of me as I was fast forwarding. In particular, I hoped to tease out which QB had more time in the pocket. As as already been mentioned, however, that's not precisely what I measured. If some could tell me how, I might attempt it (although I deleted the NFL Replay game). It's not meant to be an apples to apples comparison. It's meant to be a "how do we stack up to the best" comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUFootball29 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 It's not meant to be an apples to apples comparison. It's meant to be a "how do we stack up to the best" comparison. 832046[/snapback] If that's the case...we'll see on Sunday. But right now I'd say just below.500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 OK. I decided to look objectively at how much time Losman has before he throws or gets sacked. So I watched the Packer game and recorded from the time the ball was snapped until he threw it, got sacked, or took off running. Then I thought why not compare to Manning and Brady, the game was on NFL Replay. I could only do part of that game, because my wife was demanding the TV back. None the less, I was surprised by the numbers. I thought JP would have far less time to throw, what I found was quite different. Here's the numbers and my conclusions: JP's Time: 03.7 complete 03.1 incomplete royal not seen 02.3 quick pa to shelton 02.5 sack -pennington beat 03.8 short underneath to evans 03.6 royal dropped - over db on royals hands 02.0 designed dump off to AT 03.3 sack up middle 01.7 complete 3step drop to reed 02.8 scramble to avoid sack 02.9 down field to evans - drop on his hands safety was there if thrown longer 01.9 rollout complete to price 02.9 sack 03.0 incomplete to royal - near interception 03.9 sack 03.2 incomplete high to davis 02.8 short to shelton - designed 03.4 sack up middle 03.2 incomplete - tipped 01.9 incomplete royal drop - low pass 03.6 touchdown to evans 7-14 (5 sacks) (so I missed one somewhere) Min: 1.7 seconds Max: 3.9 seconds Mean: 2.9 seconds Incomplete pass to Price in 1st quarter; he had Royal underneath, but appeared to be going for the touchdown and over threw. On dropped pass to Evans that was short; the safety was deep and if the ball is thrown deeper, he'd definitely have a play on the ball. So not a bad throw afterall, in my opinion. Peyton's Time: 02.9 incompete 02.3 incomplete 05.0 compete - scrambled left 02.4 complete 04.1 complete 02.2 touchdown 02.5 complete 02.8 complete 02.6 complete 03.8 complete 03.7 incomplete -PI 02.7 sack 02.9 intereference 01.4 complete 02.3 incomplete 03.8 thrown away 03.1 sack 02.8 complete 04.6 pressured complete 04.1 complete 01.2 touchdown 13-19 (2 sacks) (selected - I didn't watch the whole game) Min: 1.2 seconds Max: 5.0 seconds Mean: 3.0 seconds Brady's Time: 02.9 complete 02.0 complete 02.4 complete 03.4 complete 02.0 complete 01.8 complete 02.9 scrambles 02.1 incomplete interference 02.5 incomplete 03.7 incomplete 6-9 (0 sacks) (selected - I didn't watch the whole game) Min: 1.8 seconds Max: 3.7 seconds Mean: 2.6 seconds =============================================================================== It appears from these limited numbers that JP has just about the same amount of time to throw as Manning and Brady. However (JP haters knew that was coming), on every pass the Buffalo LOS is getting pushed into JP's face. There was almost no pocket to step into. There was almost no separation between him and the pass rush. In contrast, although Brady and Manning got rid of the ball just as quickly; they had far more separation between them and the rush. Quite often, they could step up in the pocket and really get behind their throws. In conclusion, given this very limited sample survey, I'd offer that the Buffalo line does give JP time to throw. However, they're consistently getting pushed backwards. The result is JP "appears" to have less time in the pocket and defintely is making more "hurried" throws. The other observation, that seems to be missing from Buffalo's passing protection is the occurence of "passing lanes". There are no clear lanes for JP to readily see the reciever. Manning seemed to consistently have great passing lanes to readily see the field. The other decidedly noticeable observation was the play calling. The Pats and Colts defintely seem to mix the plays up better. Of course, its very obvious that Manning and Brady are definitely more polished QBs; therefore, they're easily able to scan the field and make the quicker decision. Given the separation when they threw, I'd guess they could have easily had an extra 0.5 second to throw the ball; whereas JP seemed to always throw at the last possible instant. Talk amongst yourselves... *Disclaimer - I'm not the best with math, so please check my addition and division, if you wish. I also missed a pass in the Bills game and because I was watching Replay, I certainly did not get all the passes for Manning and Brady. However, these numbers do show a trend which I think is representative of reality for these 2 games. 831962[/snapback] No real surprise. Manning and Brady get the ball off quicker, they have multiple recievers open, and most importanlty they know how to find them. One thing that the stats don't tell is the penetration on the pocket. Is it collapsing? Is the OL getting pushed back? He could have 3 or 4 seconds but be fighting for his life for most of the time. Bottom line is two things: 1 - JP still has a lot to learn, and 2 - Manning and Brady have a much more accomplished supporting cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLuca1967 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 I would agree that Manning and Brady created alot. They certainly step up; however, I really don't think JP had much to step up into. Therefore, that option is out (at least in the GB game). However, it did seem that Manning (not Brady so much) stepped back quite a bit to create some separation. He almost seems to drift back while scanning. Perhaps that's something learned. I don't really know. 832012[/snapback] And GB's pass defense was #32 in the NFL. Marino was great at sliding over and creating space for himself. Sometimes an O-line can a QB look really good. Sometimes a QB can make a O-line look really good. I think a lot of the Bills passing problems is the scheme. By not allowing Losman to move outside the pocket (or were the pocket should be) they are allowing the defense to rush to a spot on the field and not at a moving QB. It was the same with Bledsoe. A d-lineman or a blitzer didn't have to see Bledsoe to sack him. They knew were he was gong to be. It's the same with Losman. If they could just slide Losman around a little he would have much more time to throw. But from what I read on these threads Losman can't read defenses and move at the same time. And that's from posters who think they are defending Losman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 I think you are comparing apples to oranges. You have established teams with lots of talent on both the line and the WR. Where as we are trying to put together a line that can block and fid WR that can get open. 831992[/snapback] NE has lots of talent at WR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Your numbers are showing how long the QBs hold the ball, not how much time they have.831996[/snapback] Thank you. Once again, if I can see the flaw in the logic, it is VERY flawed logic. Next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungee Jumper Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Your numbers are showing how long the QBs hold the ball, not how much time they have.831996[/snapback] True, that. A better data set would be comparing how long the respective QBs have to throw when they're sacked or hit as they throw. That's a much better measure of how long the line can hold their blocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 And GB's pass defense was #32 in the NFL. 832092[/snapback] Did you see the pass rush they generated on that day....Remeber the Bills OL is also in the bottom of the league.....(Please do not jump and bring in some statistics that the bills are really 28th.).....Even the DTs were getting sacks, and QB hurries...It is one thing to stop the ends from getting to the QB, but when the interior linemen get to the QB, then there is not much he can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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