meazza Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Potential, I suppose. Let me see if I can verbalize it: It's like having the chance to take one of two women out. You know there's a chance you'll get lucky with one, and no shot of any hanky-panky with the other. Which one do you take out? You can only pick one, barring staying at home with the porn collection. That's what we Americans have to look forward to. 829668[/snapback] The one that plays harder to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 This MAY come as a shock to you: I am PRO stem-cell research. I could care less if gays want to marry, I just want them to be subject to the same limitations straight marraiges are. Abortion I'm ambivalent on. But first and foremost, the most important issue I believe the government should be concerned with is LIMITING ITSELF. The Democrats have never been the party of limited government...at least not in my lifetime. That's one reason I'd never vote for a Democrat. Bush, for all his faults, at least cut my taxes. 829655[/snapback] And you've just identified 3 of my main reasons for hating bush. i'm no tree-hugging liberal, but i cant stand a candidate who is running the country based on HIS morals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 8, 2006 Author Share Posted November 8, 2006 And you've just identified 3 of my main reasons for hating bush. i'm no tree-hugging liberal, but i cant stand a candidate who is running the country based on HIS morals. 829678[/snapback] And yet, with the exception of the Stem-Cell thing, nothing's really happened on the other two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 And you've just identified 3 of my main reasons for hating bush. i'm no tree-hugging liberal, but i cant stand a candidate who is running the country based on HIS morals. 829678[/snapback] And you just identified the reason I hated Clinton and his wife, no morals at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 And yet, with the exception of the Stem-Cell thing, nothing's really happened on the other two. 829681[/snapback] which makes me happy. but the stem cell bill really pisses me off, because most of it comes from misunderstanding. (mind you it has no effect on the stem cells i work with, because they are adult cells) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 And you just identified the reason I hated Clinton and his wife, no morals at all. And thats the reason I can't stand the Christian Coalition...they can live their lives the way they choose, I don't care, but don't tell me, through legislation, how to live mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 And you just identified the reason I hated Clinton and his wife, no morals at all. 829682[/snapback] I understand that. But as stated above, people are free to live their lives under different morals. I dont agree with some of them, but i dont think there sholud be laws on what morals you have to live by. The best example i can think of is myself. *I* am against abortion. But i am also pro-choice. I dont think the government should be allowed to tell a woman whether or not she can get one. (i am not starting an abortion debate, just making an example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 No, I'm not surprised, you pretty much repeated what I wrote in my post. I'm just curious why you'd prefer a party that claims to support an issue you care about (limited government), ignores that issue, and then instead wastes enormous amount of time, money, and political capital on issues you are either against or ambivalent to. 829665[/snapback] I wonder too... There are a lot out there like him... Maybe they "keep hope alive?" Then there is another issue... Military spending, sure they say they want no tax and no spend... But, do they want to freeze the military... Ex-military guys will say that is a boo boo because you can't remain "strong." They call use "Limo Libs", but aren't they really "Cafeteria Conservatives." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I understand that. But as stated above, people are free to live their lives under different morals. I dont agree with some of them, but i dont think there sholud be laws on what morals you have to live by. The best example i can think of is myself. *I* am against abortion. But i am also pro-choice. I dont think the government should be allowed to tell a woman whether or not she can get one. (i am not starting an abortion debate, just making an example) 829693[/snapback] But at the same time these are the "leaders" that we as parents want our children to look up to for guidance. If the president has no moral judgement whatsoever, then who do the kids look up to? Parents teachers, judges, politicians have to be morally sound, and if not gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catchescannonballs Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 And thats the reason I can't stand the Christian Coalition...they can live their lives the way they choose, I don't care, but don't tell me, through legislation, how to live mine. 829685[/snapback] I'm no fan of them either but it is a fact that this is a christian nation founded on christian values and they are simply standing up to the liberal agenda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 But at the same time these are the "leaders" that we as parents want our children to look up to for guidance. If the president has no moral judgement whatsoever, then who do the kids look up to? Parents teachers, judges, politicians have to be morally sound, and if not gone. 829705[/snapback] theres a difference between being morally sound and then passing laws requiring others to follow whatever you determine as being morally sound. Christ, what happens when some psycho fundamentalist wants to make pre-marital sex illegal? (a crazy example i know, but it highlites the problem) now i am off to lunch and a seminar, so i'll be back later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 And you just identified the reason I hated Clinton and his wife, no morals at all. 829682[/snapback] Who really wants to impose who's will on who? Seems you hate the liberals for imposing their will on people, but are they really doing it? Not when it comes to morals... Maybe taking from your pocketbook, expanding gov't, etc... But, not morals... So why does what you said above let bother you?... Live YOUR life as you see fit and leave others alone. Does just "knowing" bother you? And what right do you have to tell people how to live and who they sleep with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 But at the same time these are the "leaders" that we as parents want our children to look up to for guidance. If the president has no moral judgement whatsoever, then who do the kids look up to? Parents teachers, judges, politicians have to be morally sound, and if not gone. The kids look up to their parents. I think its more impressive for elected officials to say that they will not force an individual to make the choices that the elected official deems "right," instead will present the facts of BOTH sides and leave the choice up to the individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 theres a difference between being morally sound and then passing laws requiring others to follow whatever you determine as being morally sound. Christ, what happens when some psycho fundamentalist wants to make pre-marital sex illegal? (a crazy example i know, but it highlites the problem) now i am off to lunch and a seminar, so i'll be back later on. 829710[/snapback] Where did I say "pass laws"? But the expectation to have and show good moral judgement is imperative on our leaders. They should lead by example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I'm no fan of them either but it is a fact that this is a christian nation founded on christian values and they are simply standing up to the liberal agenda It is a christian nation, but there is the whole separation of church and state concept. Let morals be taught at home and in church. Not legislated by the government. Noone wants to stand up to liberal tax and spend more than I. But on social issues, lassiez faire is the best policy. Anything else smacks of self-righteousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC-Bills Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I understand that. But as stated above, people are free to live their lives under different morals. I dont agree with some of them, but i dont think there sholud be laws on what morals you have to live by. The best example i can think of is myself. *I* am against abortion. But i am also pro-choice. I dont think the government should be allowed to tell a woman whether or not she can get one. (i am not starting an abortion debate, just making an example) 829693[/snapback] I agree. It's amazing how some people think they can replace other people's rights with their own religious beliefs. I dealt with more moraly righteous hipocrates than I cared to in the NW panhandle of FL while growing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I'm no fan of them either but it is a fact that this is a christian nation founded on christian values and they are simply standing up to the liberal agenda 829708[/snapback] Or is it? Maybe our founders thought that it (by including some christian belief) was a good way to placate the christian relgious establishment at the time? I lean towards that argument? We don't know... But what we know was this country was founded during the Enlightenment and very good arguments can be made about secular society, the value and importance of it with the founders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I agree. It's amazing how some people think they can replace other people's rights with their own religious beliefs. I dealt with more moraly righteous hipocrates than I cared to in the NW panhandle of FL while growing up. 829722[/snapback] If you don't like it move. I am sure you and Ted can go fishing for dead girlfriends together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 But at the same time these are the "leaders" that we as parents want our children to look up to for guidance. Think of the children!.....if you are looking to the President to guide your children, you probably aren't doing a very good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 What's worse, tax and spend, or no tax and spend? 829662[/snapback] They're both about equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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