jjamie12 Posted November 6, 2006 Posted November 6, 2006 A number of posters have pointed out that the Bills rarely, if ever, resort to a three-step drop. The question is: Why? It would seem that more three-step drop passing might help out this offense considerably, so why don't they do more of this? The offensive line certainly has had its share of problems protecting the Quarterback, but it is difficult to pin down 'fault' in this situation. Without knowing play calls, adjustments to routes, and the other team's defense and matchups, we have no way of truly knowing what is going on. Unfortunately for us as Bills fans, we definitely know that SOMETHING is going wrong! A number of three-step drops (or even quick 'smoke-screen' passes to the wideouts) would seem to help fix what is ailing this offense. Do the coaches not trust JP to make these timing throws? The receivers to make the proper read and get open? Do the coaches just not realize that this is an option? I would probably lean toward the receivers being part of this problem, only because most high-school qb's, and almost all college qb's can deliver a pass 5 yards down field accurately; further, I am going to assume that the coaches aren't idiots. That leaves, in my mind, our receiving corps. Can these guys get off the ball and open on a quick slant or out? I'm not sure, because we don't even try it! What is your take?
webtoe Posted November 6, 2006 Posted November 6, 2006 I was wondering the same thing aloud yesterday, after one of the many times JP was pressured on a 5-7 step drop. You bring a very good point on the receivers. Their lack of size may make it more problematic to throw the quick slant. They are unable to adequately use their body to shield the defender from the ball. This makes it easier for the DB to cut the reciever off on his route and possible intercept. After yesterday's game, I noted that a big WR needs to be a priority for the team next year. That kid from ND (Smardje (sp?)) would look good, and may even be available in the 3rd round.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted November 6, 2006 Posted November 6, 2006 I was wondering the same thing aloud yesterday, after one of the many times JP was pressured on a 5-7 step drop. You bring a very good point on the receivers. Their lack of size may make it more problematic to throw the quick slant. They are unable to adequately use their body to shield the defender from the ball. This makes it easier for the DB to cut the reciever off on his route and possible intercept. After yesterday's game, I noted that a big WR needs to be a priority for the team next year. That kid from ND (Smardje (sp?)) would look good, and may even be available in the 3rd round. 826870[/snapback] Yup. With the exception of Josh Reed, I can't see any of our current receivers being capable of shielding the defender off to help JP complete those kind of routes. Definitely not the contact-avoiding Price or the undersized Parrish, and probably not Evans either. With that all said, though, I'd still like to see them try a quick slant once in awhile because these deeper drops aren't working. With the combination of weak pass protection and an inexperienced quarterback whose being told to stay in the pocket, these deep drops are brutal. And if we can't specifically complete slants with these receivers, we should run some quick crosses, outs, and those WR screens we were running earlier in the year.
Phlegm Alley Posted November 6, 2006 Posted November 6, 2006 I was wondering the same thing aloud yesterday, after one of the many times JP was pressured on a 5-7 step drop. You bring a very good point on the receivers. Their lack of size may make it more problematic to throw the quick slant. They are unable to adequately use their body to shield the defender from the ball. This makes it easier for the DB to cut the reciever off on his route and possible intercept. After yesterday's game, I noted that a big WR needs to be a priority for the team next year. That kid from ND (Smardje (sp?)) would look good, and may even be available in the 3rd round. 826870[/snapback] Smardjza(Sp?) will be a first rounder in the draft.
webtoe Posted November 6, 2006 Posted November 6, 2006 Smardjza(Sp?) will be a first rounder in the draft. 826893[/snapback] I don't know. You can't agrue with his production, but receivers can typically fall in the draft, based on thier workouts. He has great hands, but I don't believe he runs under a 4.5. He may not be a third, but could be there in the beginning of the 2nd.
bluv Posted November 6, 2006 Posted November 6, 2006 I have asked this question from day one! And one fact I do know is that I have seen JP and the receivers do it effectively when given the chance! For the 1st 2/3 drives of most games we seem pretty effective with combining short passes and run plays. That is why we always seem to be quick starts and score fast; I think JP has led us to a TD on our 1st drive in 8 of 16 starts. But as the game goes on, the coaching staff wanting to be sophisticated never really try to build off anything they do establish or we get a stupid penalty, missed block, or cute playcall and we always end up in 3rd and long in shotgun. Look at the Vikings game or the last quarte of the Lions game. With the short passing game at least we had some sort of chemistry going. It seems like Fairchild just like calling plays and X's and O's rather than gameplanning and forcing the defense to adjust and we never establish anything offensively. Take yesterday; there had to be a way to take advantage of Green Bay shifting their defense to stop runs to the left; where are the playactions or rollouts to the right? they only called one and it resulted in a 9 yard pass to Price. And BTW, that was the only game in which we at least establish some form of offensive identity!
bluv Posted November 6, 2006 Posted November 6, 2006 I was wondering the same thing aloud yesterday, after one of the many times JP was pressured on a 5-7 step drop. You bring a very good point on the receivers. Their lack of size may make it more problematic to throw the quick slant. They are unable to adequately use their body to shield the defender from the ball. This makes it easier for the DB to cut the reciever off on his route and possible intercept. After yesterday's game, I noted that a big WR needs to be a priority for the team next year. That kid from ND (Smardje (sp?)) would look good, and may even be available in the 3rd round. 826870[/snapback] Calvin Johson would come to mind. Anyway, the Pats didn't have big WR and they found a way to lead the league in passing last season. I know some will say they have Brady but I'll say they have better gameplanning as well!
bills_fan Posted November 6, 2006 Posted November 6, 2006 And its cousins...the screen pass and the counter run? Look our OL is a bad line, not enough talent. But the playcalling has basically made them look awful at times. Football 101...when the team you are playing has a very good, aggressive pass rush, use their aggression against them. Call screens to RBs and WRs, quick slants (I disagree about our WRs, just throw it low, they'll catch it), and run a few counter running plays. That will force the D to back off, giving JP more time for the 7 step drops.
Rubes Posted November 6, 2006 Posted November 6, 2006 I have been wondering this for months now. As for WR size, I'm sure Marvin Harrison can execute the quick slant just fine. He's one inch taller than Peerless Price and 5 pounds lighter.
jjamie12 Posted November 6, 2006 Author Posted November 6, 2006 I have been wondering this for months now. As for WR size, I'm sure Marvin Harrison can execute the quick slant just fine. He's one inch taller than Peerless Price and 5 pounds lighter. 827034[/snapback] I just don't understand why the Bills don't do more of this then? Are the coaches that myopic? I guess it's a possibility, but it just seems like such a basic adjustment to what our problems are that this would have been the first thing to do, given our struggles... So why haven't they adjusted this way at all? There are NEVER three-step drops! I'm not sure I buy the size thing completely; obviously, it helps to be bigger, but that isn't the only thing that matters -- route running, speed, making the correct read of the defense, getting off of the line of scrimmage (which, I know, is related to size as well)... all of this matters at least as much as size. There HAS to be a reason why we never see a three-step drop. What is it? I can't figure it out. JP is completing 60%, it's not an accuracy problem... What gives?
drg2021 Posted November 6, 2006 Posted November 6, 2006 I just don't understand why the Bills don't do more of this then? Are the coaches that myopic? I guess it's a possibility, but it just seems like such a basic adjustment to what our problems are that this would have been the first thing to do, given our struggles... So why haven't they adjusted this way at all? There are NEVER three-step drops! I'm not sure I buy the size thing completely; obviously, it helps to be bigger, but that isn't the only thing that matters -- route running, speed, making the correct read of the defense, getting off of the line of scrimmage (which, I know, is related to size as well)... all of this matters at least as much as size. There HAS to be a reason why we never see a three-step drop. What is it? I can't figure it out. 827128[/snapback] Wasnt that touchdown pass to Parrish a few weeks ago a 3 step drop?
Rubes Posted November 6, 2006 Posted November 6, 2006 Wasnt that touchdown pass to Parrish a few weeks ago a 3 step drop? 827136[/snapback] Parrish took a quick pass 50-something yards to the house against the Jets. Nice play. It was against a blitz, which it was designed to do. A thing of beauty. But like I always say, once a play works for this team, you can pretty much forget about seeing it again because it'll be taken out of the playbook.
stuckincincy Posted November 6, 2006 Posted November 6, 2006 A number of posters have pointed out that the Bills rarely, if ever, resort to a three-step drop. The question is: Why? What is your take? 826859[/snapback] The current rules give db's little, but they do give the opportunity to shove, whack etc. the receiver within 5 yards of the LOS. The Bills are not alone re not being able to excute reliable 3-step drop plays directed at a wr.
drg2021 Posted November 6, 2006 Posted November 6, 2006 Parrish took a quick pass 50-something yards to the house against the Jets. Nice play. It was against a blitz, which it was designed to do. A thing of beauty. But like I always say, once a play works for this team, you can pretty much forget about seeing it again because it'll be taken out of the playbook. 827141[/snapback] But it was a 3 step drop and good reads by Parrish and the Lman
webtoe Posted November 6, 2006 Posted November 6, 2006 I have been wondering this for months now. As for WR size, I'm sure Marvin Harrison can execute the quick slant just fine. He's one inch taller than Peerless Price and 5 pounds lighter. 827034[/snapback] Your not really comparing any of our recievers to Harrison are you? Or for that matter equating JP with Manning. Of course talent is a major factor, but a WR's size increases the margin of error.
jjamie12 Posted November 6, 2006 Author Posted November 6, 2006 But it was a 3 step drop and good reads by Parrish and the Lman 827144[/snapback] Correct. Week 3. We have to go back to week 3 to remember an executed 3-step drop passing play? Actually, that's not really fair. In week 5, the garbage time TD pass to Lee Evans at the goal-line was also a quick 3-step drop and slant for the TD. But, I guess that's the point I'm trying to make. We have to go back several weeks to come up with a play that utilised a 3-step drop (which should negate a pass rush) all the while being sacked and hit in the mouth consistently. I'm just trying to figure out WHY we don't do more 3-step drops? Are our coaches blind? Probably not. So why don't we see more of it? This SHOULD be an easy adjustment, but we don't go to it. The question is why?
Rubes Posted November 7, 2006 Posted November 7, 2006 Your not really comparing any of our recievers to Harrison are you?Or for that matter equating JP with Manning. 827194[/snapback] Not at all...just that size is not critical for a successful quick slant.
BuffOrange Posted November 7, 2006 Posted November 7, 2006 Correct. Week 3. We have to go back to week 3 to remember an executed 3-step drop passing play? Actually, that's not really fair. In week 5, the garbage time TD pass to Lee Evans at the goal-line was also a quick 3-step drop and slant for the TD. But, I guess that's the point I'm trying to make. We have to go back several weeks to come up with a play that utilised a 3-step drop (which should negate a pass rush) all the while being sacked and hit in the mouth consistently. I'm just trying to figure out WHY we don't do more 3-step drops? Are our coaches blind? Probably not. So why don't we see more of it? This SHOULD be an easy adjustment, but we don't go to it. The question is why? 827236[/snapback] I think you mean "well executed" 3 step drop play? It was a nice read and throw to beat the blitz and pick up a first, but we only remember it because the Jets safety took an awful angle on Parrish.
jjamie12 Posted November 7, 2006 Author Posted November 7, 2006 I think you mean "well executed" 3 step drop play? It was a nice read and throw to beat the blitz and pick up a first, but we only remember it because the Jets safety took an awful angle on Parrish. 827419[/snapback] I actually just meant a 3-step drop pass play... Seriously. I didn't see every offensive snap yesterday, but I don't remember a single time that JP took a 3-step drop. I'm not saying that it didn't happen, but I certainly don't remember it happening. If you can point to a time or two that it happened, that's great, but that's the point, isn't it? If we are constantly getting sacked and hit in the mouth, shouldn't there be more 3-step drops? I am literally asking why we don't see more? Does anyone have a good idea why the Bills wouldn't make short, quick, passes more prominent in this offense?
BuffOrange Posted November 7, 2006 Posted November 7, 2006 I actually just meant a 3-step drop pass play... Seriously. I didn't see every offensive snap yesterday, but I don't remember a single time that JP took a 3-step drop. I'm not saying that it didn't happen, but I certainly don't remember it happening. If you can point to a time or two that it happened, that's great, but that's the point, isn't it? If we are constantly getting sacked and hit in the mouth, shouldn't there be more 3-step drops? I am literally asking why we don't see more? Does anyone have a good idea why the Bills wouldn't make short, quick, passes more prominent in this offense? 827761[/snapback] Fair enough; Fairchild was groomed by Martz, so maybe that's part of it. They threw quick & short pretty much exclusively vs. Miami, and that was no offensive clinic. Also, Shelton caught a couple balls yesterday, which I assume wee 3steps; but I'd be lying if I said I counted steps when watching a game.
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