JP vs The Excuse Factory

[Beerball]

I understand everybodys frustration with JP but benching him now is pointless, HAVE YOU ALL FORGOTTEN HOW MUCH WE GAVE UP FOR HIM? He just started his 16th game, over a 3 year span, hardly a barometer for how good he'll be. What's the point of starting Nall or Holcomb? So MAYYYBE we can go 6-10 instead of 5-11 or 4-12? Yay! You give JP the season, if he bombs, we move on, if not, he's our guy. End of story

826565[/snapback]

Must admit, I have been on the he needs time side for the past 2 years, but the mistakes aren't getting fixed.

 

Yesterday...he goes long to Evans...late...and the play is broken up.

 

Later he goes back to Evans...late...only this time he's too wide open for the defenders to make a play.

 

He either...isn't processing information quickly enough, or he doesn't trust his receivers.

 

I also believe that he is at times making a bad line look worse than it is.

 

Dude needs to step up and have a big game, and soon.

[jdubs]

Someone please explain to me how its the O-Lines fault when JP stares down recievers? Doesn't look off the saftey? Under/Over throws passes? Can't feel the rush? And is unable to read an NFL defense?

 

I'd like to know, how is that the Offensive lines fault?

Blaming the O-Line for almost all of JP's inabilities is idiotic.

 

Bottom line, he hasn't progressed much, and the starter of this thread is on the money.

826666[/snapback]

 

did you watch ANYTHING yesterday? he didn't even have time to make his reads by the time he was getting sacked. he was pressured all day long and the o line could not pass protect.

[PromoTheRobot]

Well here's a question you have to ask yourself: We have had a truckload of QB's since Kelly and NONE of them were any good. So is it the QB? The O-line? The offensive playcalling? What is it??? We've had 1st round picks, low round picks, veteran free agents, alleged future hall of famers. They all stunk.

 

When you have had so many QB's and wind up with the same result, maybe the QB ain't the problem?

 

PTR

[Heels20X6]

it is pathetic, we finally win and you cant even tell. Who cares if he completed 8 passes, he was 8-15, 105 and a TD. Not that horrible. Its hard to be accurate when you cant step into your throws, the kid is probably gun shy because he gets bombed everytime he tries to step in and chuck it deep, give him a break

826616[/snapback]

 

You also have to bring up that Evans and Royal dropped some key passes from JP that would have been big time gainers. Especially Evans drop. He had Harris beat. He catches that, he's in the end zone.

 

Our receivers have to make those catches to give a young QB confidence.

[Buckeye Eric]

Look at how many QBs we've been through, who hold the ball too long, take coverage sacks, etc...

 

If you take several different cars to the same mechanic and they all continue to have problems, at some point you need to rule out that it is a problem with the cars.

[mike1011]

Let's ask this question hypothetically:

 

-What do you have to lose with Nall starting with 4 games after Indy?

-Either he plays good quick passes and looks Bulger-esque in Fairchild's system or

-He plays like garbage and we keep watching Losman play

 

Pyrite mentioned Brad Johnson as a development that was given up too soon. I digress, he stank. He only won for Tampa Bay because he played fairly conservative on an awesome defense and strong running game. Lest we forget Johnson played for the Redskins and Vikings for around 8 years before he got to the promised land with TB. No one credits 1st rounder Dilfer either. Remember both are 1st rounders with a different team.

 

Where do I see Losman becoming and developing into? Bledsoe with athletic ability. Million dollar arm, 2 cent head. He's trying hard not to fumble the ball. That's after 3 years and we are still working on the fundamentals of wrapping up the ball.

 

People can learn on the bench. Romo looks better than Losman, and so did Brady and where did they learn before they started?

 

For all your Losman Lovers... I'm a Buffalo Bills fan, not a Losman fan. If Nall can do better for the TEAM, then yes, I want the TEAM to play better. Losman is a very poor man's Steve Young. If he was just a poor man's version of Young (Brunell late 90's) I'd love it, but he's a very poor version with no vision.

 

Sure we might just be 6-10 with Nall maybe win one more game. But we could find out we have a good enough QB next year to not invest more time in "developing" another QB. I'll take a QB who might be able to throw 210 yards a game (average) with 1-2 TDs a game over what we have - which is no offense and a QB still working on fundamentals.

[drg2021]

Let's ask this question hypothetically:

 

-What do you have to lose with Nall starting with 4 games after Indy?

    -Either he plays good quick passes and looks Bulger-esque in Fairchild's system  or

    -He plays like garbage and we keep watching Losman play

 

Pyrite mentioned Brad Johnson as a development that was given up too soon. I digress, he stank. He only won for Tampa Bay because he played fairly conservative on an awesome defense and strong running game. Lest we forget Johnson played for the Redskins and Vikings for around 8 years before he got to the promised land with TB. No one credits 1st rounder Dilfer either. Remember both are 1st rounders with a different team.

 

Where do I see Losman becoming and developing into? Bledsoe with athletic ability. Million dollar arm, 2 cent head. He's trying hard not to fumble the ball. That's after 3 years and we are still working on the fundamentals of wrapping up the ball.

 

People can learn on the bench. Romo looks better than Losman, and so did Brady and where did they learn before they started?

 

For all your Losman Lovers... I'm a Buffalo Bills fan, not a Losman fan. If Nall can do better for the TEAM, then yes, I want the TEAM to play better. Losman is a very poor man's Steve Young. If he was just a poor man's version of Young (Brunell late 90's) I'd love it, but he's a very poor version with no vision.

 

Sure we might just be 6-10 with Nall maybe win one more game. But we could find out we have a good enough QB next year to not invest more time in "developing" another QB. I'll take a QB who might be able to throw 210 yards a game (average) with 1-2 TDs a game over what we have - which is no offense and a QB still working on fundamentals.

826710[/snapback]

What are you talking about,Jp was Steller yesterday.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Lest we forget Johnson played for the Redskins and Vikings for around 8 years before he got to the promised land with TB. No one credits 1st rounder Dilfer either. Remember both are 1st rounders with a different team.

826710[/snapback]

Wrong. Brad Johnson was drafted in the NINTH round, not the first.

Where do I see Losman becoming and developing into? Bledsoe with athletic ability. Million dollar arm, 2 cent head. He's trying hard not to fumble the ball. That's after 3 years and we are still working on the fundamentals of wrapping up the ball.

826710[/snapback]

Jim Kelly never fumbled or threw interceptions.

Sincerely,

Cement Headed-Bills Fan No. 20,304

Let's ask this question hypothetically:

 

-What do you have to lose with Nall starting with 4 games after Indy?

    -Either he plays good quick passes and looks Bulger-esque in Fairchild's system  or

    -He plays like garbage and we keep watching Losman play

So Nall won't need to develop or learn on the job, but Losman does? Can you give me your report on how awesome Nall is at making reads or looking off his receivers or throwing 40 yard touchdown passes. Of course you can. Thanks for your expert analysis. I hear they're hiring at OBD.

For all your Losman Lovers... I'm a Buffalo Bills fan, not a Losman fan. If Nall can do better for the TEAM, then yes, I want the TEAM to play better. Losman is a very poor man's Steve Young. If he was just a poor man's version of Young (Brunell late 90's) I'd love it, but he's a very poor version with no vision.

 

Sure we might just be 6-10 with Nall maybe win one more game. But we could find out we have a good enough QB next year to not invest more time in "developing" another QB. I'll take a QB who might be able to throw 210 yards a game (average) with 1-2 TDs a game over what we have - which is no offense and a QB still working on fundamentals.

Your logic is so amazing assinine, to paraphrase stojan. We need to put in another QB with <5 games of experience to see if he doesn't need to learn and we need to rebuild even more than we already do? WTF?

[rockpile]

not another one of these threads...  i'm getting pretty sick of seeing these type of threads.  you people are so impatient.  lighten up, we won yesterday in case you forgot!

826597[/snapback]

 

I think the "rookie" makes some good points.

 

I am VERY happy the Bills won, HONEST but I am still waiting to see progress from JP.

 

I am also patient enough to wait until January first before a decision is made on his future.

 

I have been patiently waiting since 1966. Why should I lighten up?

[Rubes]

-Gradkowski is playing with 4 games experience and has better #s with a shaky O-line. The difference is he plays high % passes with a quick release on 3 step drops.

 

-Lienart looked good that one night where he got rid of the ball quickly and accurately against the Bears with 3 step drops.

826390[/snapback]

 

 

I think you pretty much identified part of the problem right there. Can you count how many times JP took 3-step drops yesterday? Can you count how many times we threw a quick slant? A screen pass? A swing pass to a running back? I can think of one or two.

 

Part of helping a young QB is to give him some easy throws. Quick drops, plant, and fire. Lienart was doing that very nicely against the Bears. I haven't seen Gradkowski, but I would guess that's what he's doing, too.

 

Youu can't do too much of it, because teams won't respect the long ball. But that's what Brady does all the time. Favre was doing it all day yesterday. It's good for keeping the pass rush off your back, and it lets the QB get into a rhythm.

 

Yet all I see from our coordinator and our QB are 7-step drops. Time and time again. Long developing plays. The TD pass to Evans required two moves, out and up, and the reason JP's pass was underthrown was because he basically couldn't plant his front foot to do it. He was about to get smacked in the face.

 

Look, I am not a huge JP apologist, but we really do not have the offensive line to do excludive 7-step drops. I am dumbfounded as to why the coaches insist on leaving 3-step drop plays out of the playbook. The team appears to be incapable of picking up a blitz OR making a hot-read and hitting a receiver on a quick slant to counter a blitz. I haven't seen a whole lof of play-action or draw plays either, for that matter.

 

I don't know if it's Fairchild/Jauron's plan to just force this kid to sit in the pocket and learn how to feel pressure and make decisions or what, but it's really puzzling to me.

[cåblelady]

We are 3/5 with a bad offensive line. We don't have much to go on as to whether Losman is good or not.  Should we have addressed the o-line in the offseason?  Yup..but getting rid of Losman isn't the way to go.  At the end of the season they can assess him and cut him if necessary.  Nall or Holcomb aren't going to take us to the playoffs, and neither of them is our qb of the future, so we might as well continue and get a good assessment of Losman for the remainder of the season and just plain cut him if he doesn't work out.  I suspect he might work out to be a fine qb.

826585[/snapback]

Nice post, tenny.

[Arkady Renko]

As long as people said it was the O-line's fault and not Bledsoe or Rob Johnson's fault when they struggled, then you are free to make that argument now with JP.

 

Also, people need to learn about the concept of sunk costs.

 

JP sucks, whether or not he will improve is an open question. Whether or not he should be given much more time is yet another question.

[cåblelady]

JP sucks

827298[/snapback]

JP does NOT suck !

[CoachChuckDickerson]

I remember how crappy the online was when RJ played too. Then they put in Flutie and everybody magically remebered how to block. Must have been the Flutie dust.

[cåblelady]

I remember how crappy the online was when RJ played too. Then they put in Flutie and everybody magically remebered how to block. Must have been the Flutie dust.

827303[/snapback]

Actually, Flutie did alot of running......something RJ didn't do much of.

[Arkady Renko]

Actually, Flutie did alot of running......something RJ didn't do much of.

827307[/snapback]

 

RJ was actually pretty good at running with the football, he just wasn't good at feeling the rush. JP can run too but has a similar problem.

[mike1011]

Wrong.  Brad Johnson was drafted in the NINTH round, not the first.

 

You are correct, I lumped them together improperly. I assumed by the words of Pyrite of the Johnson project.

 

Jim Kelly never fumbled or threw interceptions.

Sincerely,

Cement Headed-Bills Fan No. 20,304

 

No one considered a good game by Kelly when he didn't fumble, threw for 120 yards with no touchdowns.

 

Kelly first year in the NFL:

1986 buf | 16 | 285 attempts 480 completions 59.4% completions 3593 yards 22 TDs 17 Ints

 

Losman is scheduled for 14 TDs, 13 Ints, 2930 yards. We are happy when he doesn't fumble, I don't we had such low expectations for Kelly at all.

 

Oh yeah, Kelly had 7 fumbles that year, JP is on pace for 16.

 

So Nall won't need to develop or learn on the job, but Losman does?  Can you give me your report on how awesome Nall is at making reads or looking off his receivers or throwing 40 yard touchdown passes.  Of course you can.  Thanks for your expert analysis.  I hear they're hiring at OBD.

 

Of course I said none of that. Nall will need to learn, but why give him such a long learning curve.

 

Your logic is so amazing assinine, to paraphrase stojan.  We need to put in another QB with <5 games of experience to see if he doesn't need to learn and we need to rebuild even more than we already do?  WTF?

 

Great connection of thought. High degrees of deductive logic. You should take a class in dialectics before you continue on your mythical tirade of debating nothing of what the other person said.

 

All I'm saying is see what we have with Nall for a several games. We don't lose anything, but the upside (if it exists) is greater than continuing to see if JP learns how not to fumble. Great upside, little risk at this point.

[AJ1]

Part of helping a young QB is to give him some easy throws. Quick drops, plant, and fire. Lienart was doing that very nicely against the Bears. I haven't seen Gradkowski, but I would guess that's what he's doing, too.

 

Youu can't do too much of it, because teams won't respect the long ball. But that's what Brady does all the time. Favre was doing it all day yesterday. It's good for keeping the pass rush off your back, and it lets the QB get into a rhythm.

 

Yet all I see from our coordinator and our QB are 7-step drops. Time and time again. Long developing plays. The TD pass to Evans required two moves, out and up, and the reason JP's pass was underthrown was because he basically couldn't plant his front foot to do it. He was about to get smacked in the face.

 

Look, I am not a huge JP apologist, but we really do not have the offensive line to do excludive 7-step drops. I am dumbfounded as to why the coaches insist on leaving 3-step drop plays out of the playbook. The team appears to be incapable of picking up a blitz OR making a hot-read and hitting a receiver on a quick slant to counter a blitz. I haven't seen a whole lof of play-action or draw plays either, for that matter.

 

I don't know if it's Fairchild/Jauron's plan to just force this kid to sit in the pocket and learn how to feel pressure and make decisions or what, but it's really puzzling to me.

827016[/snapback]

 

What have the coaches done? It should be obvious that whatever 'system' of playcalling they're utilizing is isn't working and shows no signs of ever working. Sure, blame the quarterback. I think Fairchild and company have designed a guaranteed-to-lose set of plays for a young qb. I suspect that the plays are so rudimentary that opposing defenses can gameplan against the woebegone Bills in their sleep. Show some imagination. If this is the only offense they think Losman can run, it's time to start planning for a replacement. The replacement just might be the OC.

[Rubes]

What have the coaches done?  It should be obvious that whatever 'system' of playcalling they're utilizing is isn't working and shows no signs of ever working.  Sure, blame the quarterback.  I think Fairchild and company have designed a guaranteed-to-lose set of plays for a young qb.  I suspect that the plays are so rudimentary that opposing defenses can gameplan against the woebegone Bills in their sleep.  Show some imagination.  If this is the only offense they think Losman can run, it's time to start planning for a replacement.  The replacement just might be the OC.

827377[/snapback]

 

 

Isn't that what I was saying?

[Dibs]

i don't think we should start nall, but i'll be pretty surprised if JP is anything but crap......

......he was decent against Minni who can't produce any pass rush at all....

 

...he brings nothing and there are 20 qbs who can step in today and do better (altho prolly not nall).....

826627[/snapback]

If he was decent against MIN who can't produce any pass rush....perhaps if he had an OL that could provide him with better protection he would look more like the QB aginst MIN & improve from there.

 

"..he brings nothing..."?

You can't say his TD to Parrish in the DET game was nothing....nor his 60yard scramble for 3rd & 2. He definitely has potential. If he didn't, there wouldn't be much argument about him.

 

Let's see how the new OL pans out. Can Peters hack it at LT? Can Pennington play RT in this league? These Qs are probably more important at this point than whether I...or you...or anyone....is ready to 'give up' on JP.