Hollywood Donahoe Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 I fear that TB only fits into the NE "mold..." Not this again... He does lay some stinkers down... Every QB lays down stinkers. Brady's W/L record indicates that he's laid down stinkers at a rate much less frequent than the vast majority of NFL QBs throughout history. ...and doesn't really put up the stats... This bit got me thinking. Brady, at the start of the '06 season, had the 7th best QB rating of all time. Some might dismiss that as an insignificant percentage, though, so I averaged out Brady's current '06 stats to a full season, then calculated his average full season, which came out to: Comp: 314 Att: 513 %: 61.3% Yards: 3,622 TD: 26 INT: 13 Brady's closest comparison is largely agreed to be Montana, so if one assumes that Brady, like Montana, plays for 15 years, his career numbers will end up like this: Comp: 4402 Att: 7183 Yards: 50,714 TD: 362 INT: 175 As of now, those numbers would rank on the all-time lists in the following fashion: Comp: 3rd Att: 4th Yards: 3rd TD: 3rd My math may be off, because I put this together rather hastily, and Brady's numbers are likely to diminish as he nears the end of his career, but it seems evident that, if he remains healthy, he's going to end his career with numbers that are clearly among the best of all time. Coupled with, at a minimum, three Super Bowl wins, that's a damn good résumé. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 Not this again... Every QB lays down stinkers. Brady's W/L record indicates that he's laid down stinkers at a rate much less frequent than the vast majority of NFL QBs throughout history. This bit got me thinking. Brady, at the start of the '06 season, had the 7th best QB rating of all time. Some might dismiss that as an insignificant percentage, though, so I averaged out Brady's current '06 stats to a full season, then calculated his average full season, which came out to: Comp: 314 Att: 513 %: 61.3% Yards: 3,622 TD: 26 INT: 13 Brady's closest comparison is largely agreed to be Montana, so if one assumes that Brady, like Montana, plays for 15 years, his career numbers will end up like this: Comp: 4402 Att: 7183 Yards: 50,714 TD: 362 INT: 175 As of now, those numbers would rank on the all-time lists in the following fashion: Comp: 3rd Att: 4th Yards: 3rd TD: 3rd My math may be off, because I put this together rather hastily, and Brady's numbers are likely to diminish as he nears the end of his career, but it seems evident that, if he remains healthy, he's going to end his career with numbers that are clearly among the best of all time. Coupled with, at a minimum, three Super Bowl wins, that's a damn good résumé. 825196[/snapback] As much as I hate it... You are right... His on-field stuff isn't flashy (ala Peyton) I have to admit... IMO, he does it quietly, yet does it! My premise was strictly... From the heart... He moves to another team and things go like Montana for him, again in my opinion. He belongs where he is and has the sense to know that... That will make him great. Slow and steady wins the race!! Sometimes divinity/providence puts you where you belong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 I am not so sure... You could place most of those QB's on other teams and they'd probably do a great job with them... I fear that TB only fits into the NE "mold..." He does lay some stinkers down and doesn't really put up the stats... Yes, he wins in the end... That leads us back to Dax's question... 824840[/snapback] You on crack? The guy hasn't had a RB or WR worth a crap since he started. His most talented WR: Deion Branch??? His best RB? A pretty washed up Corey Dillon. Can you imagine him with Manning's surrounding cast? I hate Tom Brady. But only because he's in the AFC East. I can't hate his consistency and talent. He's the best QB currently playing and could leave Montana and Elway in the dust before he's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 You on crack? The guy hasn't had a RB or WR worth a crap since he started. His most talented WR: Deion Branch??? His best RB? A pretty washed up Corey Dillon. Can you imagine him with Manning's surrounding cast? I hate Tom Brady. But only because he's in the AFC East. I can't hate his consistency and talent. He's the best QB currently playing and could leave Montana and Elway in the dust before he's done. 825788[/snapback] You probably made your way to my post above... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 You on crack? The guy hasn't had a RB or WR worth a crap since he started. His most talented WR: Deion Branch??? His best RB? A pretty washed up Corey Dillon. Can you imagine him with Manning's surrounding cast? I hate Tom Brady. But only because he's in the AFC East. I can't hate his consistency and talent. He's the best QB currently playing and could leave Montana and Elway in the dust before he's done. 825788[/snapback] If you say so. Their is something Manning never had. Belichick (best HC in the game) and Charlie Weiss (former best OC in the game). Brady didnt win every game either. His defense won about half of them. Manning = he/offense needs to win pretty much EVERY game they play. Washed up Corey Dillon? The last time the Patriots won the SB, Dillon had nearly 1700 yards that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted November 5, 2006 Author Share Posted November 5, 2006 No Namath, Kelly, Tittle, Lamonica, Starr, Blanda, Dawson, Moon, Tarkenton.... GOD, you are old. 824691[/snapback] Ive seen all of those guys play--and the only Namath before the knee injuries and tarkenton could be top ten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 As much as I hate it... You are right... His on-field stuff isn't flashy (ala Peyton) I have to admit... IMO, he does it quietly, yet does it! My premise was strictly... From the heart... He moves to another team and things go like Montana for him, again in my opinion. He belongs where he is and has the sense to know that... That will make him great. Slow and steady wins the race!! Sometimes divinity/providence puts you where you belong. 825692[/snapback] I just did a little stat check. Brady averages (after his first season) about twice as many TDs as INTs 26-28 TDs a season. Jim Kelly in comparison only threw for more than 25 TDs one time (33) and his INTs were horribly high. Brady (discounting his rookie season) averages about 3600 yards a season compared to Kelly's about 3200 (these are eyeball stats). Brady is an amazing MFer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 I just did a little stat check. Brady averages (after his first season) about twice as many TDs as INTs 26-28 TDs a season. Jim Kelly in comparison only threw for more than 25 TDs one time (33) and his INTs were horribly high. Brady (discounting his rookie season) averages about 3600 yards a season compared to Kelly's about 3200 (these are eyeball stats). Brady is an amazing MFer. 825800[/snapback] If you want to go down the road of stats then Manning is going to blow Brady out of the water. This is what it comes down to. You are either: 1. A GREAT QB who puts up AMAZING stats but cant seem to win the SB or 2. A GOOD QB with GOOD statistics but seems to do well in winning the big game. Manning is of course option 1 and brady option 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 If you say so. Their is something Manning never had. Belichick (best HC in the game) and Charlie Weiss (former best OC in the game). Brady didnt win every game either. His defense won about half of them. Manning = he/offense needs to win pretty much EVERY game they play. Washed up Corey Dillon? The last time the Patriots won the SB, Dillon had nearly 1700 yards that season. 825797[/snapback] Right. Dillon had one good season in NE. That's it. Brady has no Harrison/Edge combination. Not even close. He plays in foul weather (unlike Manning). Oh, and he owns Manning and some hardware Manning lacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 Right. Dillon had one good season in NE. That's it. Brady has no Harrison/Edge combination. Not even close. He plays in foul weather (unlike Manning). Oh, and he owns Manning and some hardware Manning lacks. 825805[/snapback] Yes and that one good season is the one they won the SB. He had a injury/bad season last year and they got blown out in the playoffs. For someone who "owns" Manning, I dont remember Brady EVER playing defense. As I said above. Brady's defense seems to win him half the games. Manning also beat his team by nearly 20 points just last year. OK. So now Manning just has Harrison (1 superstar) on his offense. He has a rookie RB and he is still putting up amazing numbers. I said it before and I will say it again. I DO NOT and WILL NOT judge a player about the ammount of SB's he won. I judge a TEAM by that. Not a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 If you want to go down the road of stats then Manning is going to blow Brady out of the water. This is what it comes down to. You are either: 1. A GREAT QB who puts up AMAZING stats but cant seem to win the SB or 2. A GOOD QB with GOOD statistics but seems to do well in winning the big game. Manning is of course option 1 and brady option 2 825804[/snapback] I looked up Kelly because he was a relative winner. Manning and his supporting cast is a fantasy-football dream. I didn't compare Brady to Manning. You did. I'd take Brady and Montana over Manning. Give me the proven winner and leader. Do you remember what an old Montana did with a crappy KC team at the end of his career? He made them all better--and they had nothing on offense on that team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted November 5, 2006 Author Share Posted November 5, 2006 1. Montana2. Bradshaw 3. Unitas 4. Marino 5. Fouts 6. Farve (most 30 touchdown seasons) 7. Manning (will definitely move higher) 8. Brady (maybe top three by career end- actually compiling big stats, far more than Elway 9. Baugh 10. Graham 824727[/snapback] Hard to argue with your list.....but Favre???---i just think too many big errors marked his career--even when he was in his prime.The oyther guys didnt have his propensity for dumb mistakes/decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 I looked up Kelly because he was a relative winner. Manning and his supporting cast is a fantasy-football dream. I didn't compare Brady to Manning. You did. I'd take Brady and Montana over Manning. Give me the proven winner and leader. Do you remember what an old Montana did with a crappy KC team at the end of his career? He made them all better--and they had nothing on offense on that team. 825809[/snapback] I can see what your saying. You bring up very valid points. Here is what I am saying: Brady is a GOOD QB who WINS BIG GAMES. Manning is an AMAZING QB who loses big games. Thats what I think. I think you can be a better QB than someone and still not win as much. Who is better? Dilfer or Marino? Marino is a MUCH better QB but Dilfer has more SB rings. Thats my point. One person can be a better pure player without winning the rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 Yes and that one good season is the one they won the SB. He had a injury/bad season last year and they got blown out in the playoffs. I said it before and I will say it again. I DO NOT and WILL NOT judge a player about the ammount of SB's he won. I judge a TEAM by that. Not a player. Bwahahahaha. OK, "discount" the QBs role on a 3 SB winning team. That's cute. Are you forgetting the 2 SBs Brady won with Antawain Smith at running back? Antawain Smith, who we got a good look at here and who was horrible. I'd say Brady won with less than Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 I can see what your saying. You bring up very valid points. Here is what I am saying: Brady is a GOOD QB who WINS BIG GAMES. Manning is an AMAZING QB who loses big games. Thats what I think. I think you can be a better QB than someone and still not win as much. Who is better? Dilfer or Marino? Marino is a MUCH better QB but Dilfer has more SB rings. Thats my point. One person can be a better pure player without winning the rings. 825814[/snapback] That's not a great comparison. Brady already has 3 SB rings. Already--to go along with some excellent (but not Manningesque) statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 Bwahahahaha. OK, "discount" the QBs role on a 3 SB winning team. That's cute. Are you forgetting the 2 SBs Brady won with Antawain Smith at running back? Antawain Smith, who we got a good look at here and who was horrible. I'd say Brady won with less than Manning. 825821[/snapback] Listen. Im not trying to discount his role in winning the SB's. What Im saying is this. Manning has the entire game on his shoulders. No defense. Brady knows if he throws an INT his defense will probably stop the offense. Manning knows if he throws an INT, the opposing offense will probably score. Brady threw for only 120+ yards in 1 of those SB's I remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 Being only 33 I didn't get an opportunity to see the guys who played in the 70s and earlier but it's almost criminal how underrated Steve Young is. The guy is, hands down, the best QB I've seen play in the past 22 or so years. Better than Montana, better than Elway and better than Manning or Brady. Young could do it all. He was a master of the quick passing game, he had the arm for the deep outs and a nice touch on his long ball. He also mastered how to be an effective running QB as he always looked to pass first (well, after his first few years as a starter) before making plays with his legs. None of the other great QBs of his era could do all the things he could do, not even Elway (who wasn’t anywhere near as accurate as Young). 824953[/snapback] agree 100% being only 22 I never saw the qb's of the 70's and most of the 80's but young is the best qb I've ever watched play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 10. Staubach 9. Manning (Peyton) 8. Elway 7. Baugh 6. Bradshaw 5. Otto Graham 4. Marino 3. Montana 2. Favre 1. Unitas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Donahoe Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 Here is what I am saying: Brady is a GOOD QB who WINS BIG GAMES. Manning is an AMAZING QB who loses big games. A QBs JOB IS TO WIN BIG GAMES! Imagine if we were talking about doctors instead of QBs. "John is a good doctor who performs well in important surgeries, but Bill is an AMAZING doctor whose patients always end up dying on the table." Your position makes no sense. Good QBs/doctors who are at their best during important games/surgeries ARE the amazing ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 A QBs JOB IS TO WIN BIG GAMES! Imagine if we were talking about doctors instead of QBs. "John is a good doctor who performs well in important surgeries, but Bill is an AMAZING doctor whose patients always end up dying on the table." Your position makes no sense. Good QBs/doctors who are at their best during important games/surgeries ARE the amazing ones. 825837[/snapback] Shouldnt you be waxing Brady's balls? its almost game time I on the other hand think Brady is an awesome QB ... but I in no way think manning and brady are far apart in the QB spectrum If we were going by Madden Ratings I would rate one 99.9 and one 99.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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