inkman Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Then you've been to the wrong chruches. 823956[/snapback] I personally haven't been to many elaborate churches. The ones I have been to were mostly small town humble. A VERY large portion of my family has devoted their lives to God, and while I don't understand a lot of what they do, I do know that they are good, honest people who try and help people in need. From missionaries in foreign countries to rural preachers, they have found a path and chose to follow it. They live meagerly and try to show people a better life through God. This is how it should be done. As soon as $$$$ enters the equation, the fundamentals of what they preach are in serious question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Nicely said. I've always had a problem with Catholic churches and how ornate and gaudy they are, almost as if they are trying to throw their affluence in peoples faces. And their vestments, holy crap. Gold trimmed and flashy, they look more like halloween costumes then the uniform of supposed men of God. Much of the money wasted on all that trivial decoration could have gone to the poor and whatnot, if they were truly about being rightous and pious. I'm sure they'd say it's all about marketing, using extravagence to sway the poor and simple minded, but that's partly why I consider myself a lapsed Catholic/agnostic today... 823951[/snapback] I actually feel the opposite. Catholic clergy take a vow of poverty. I think that is a much more appropriate state to be in than your typical "babtist" preacher down here in the south. These guys are up there on stage like it's all about THEM. They drive fancy cars, live in nice houses, etc. While that clearly doesn't bother others, it's not what I feel is appropriate for a "man of God". Catholic Churches are often very ornate, but the church also was the number one charitable organization in the world last I checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 I actually feel the opposite. Catholic clergy take a vow of poverty. I think that is a much more appropriate state to be in than your typical "babtist" preacher down here in the south. These guys are up there on stage like it's all about THEM. They drive fancy cars, live in nice houses, etc. While that clearly doesn't bother others, it's not what I feel is appropriate for a "man of God". Catholic Churches are often very ornate, but the church also was the number one charitable organization in the world last I checked. 824155[/snapback] Personally I think the whole priest has to take a life of celibacy thing is BS. One of the main reasons I never became religious, because I dont believe in what the Catholic church preaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Personally I think the whole priest has to take a life of celibacy thing is BS. One of the main reasons I never became religious, because I dont believe in what the Catholic church preaches. 824161[/snapback] Well, it's not the Catholic church you have an issue with then, it's the Bible But why does it bother you if someone ELSE chooses to be celibate? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Well, it's not the Catholic church you have an issue with then, it's the Bible But why does it bother you if someone ELSE chooses to be celibate? lol 824219[/snapback] Heh, good point. But we are in modern times. If Rabbi's (sp) can get married, why not Priests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Heh, good point. But we are in modern times. If Rabbi's (sp) can get married, why not Priests? 824220[/snapback] The Church just believes that priests should be married to IT instead of a woman....after having gone through a divorce, I actually can see their point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 The Church just believes that priests should be married to IT instead of a woman....after having gone through a divorce, I actually can see their point 824224[/snapback] Tell me, how many 'representative figures' of each religion get caught molesting little boys and girls? I don't know if I ever heard of a Rabii(sp) or Reverand getting caught doing these kind of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Tell me, how many 'representative figures' of each religion get caught molesting little boys and girls? I don't know if I ever heard of a Rabii(sp) or Reverand getting caught doing these kind of things. 824225[/snapback] Yeah, I know a lot of people who feel that way. And I actually do feel there should be an order of priests who CAN marry. But I think those who are molesting children were apt to do that kind of thing before they became priests. I think a lot of them purposely choose the priesthood as their cover, and because it's easy access to the victims. Anyone who does that should be shot, IMO...priest or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjeff215 Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Do you have to be a Christian to get pissed off this? 823923[/snapback] No. Religion aside, this guy is a hypocrite at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjeff215 Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 I actually feel the opposite. Catholic clergy take a vow of poverty. I think that is a much more appropriate state to be in than your typical "babtist" preacher down here in the south. These guys are up there on stage like it's all about THEM. They drive fancy cars, live in nice houses, etc. While that clearly doesn't bother others, it's not what I feel is appropriate for a "man of God". Catholic Churches are often very ornate, but the church also was the number one charitable organization in the world last I checked. 824155[/snapback] There's a big Baptist church around here, in a northern suburb of Atlanta. Probably the largest building in the county. There's room in that thing for thousands. I've been inside of it once - large "concert sized" TV screens, stadium seating. It's nuts. I'm not much of a religious man, but I've always thought it should be more of a personal experience. A small Catholic church. The sermon/mass shouldn't have an opening act. That said, rumor has it the preacher at that Baptist church has a Ferarri *collection*. -Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catholic Guilt Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Much new world Catholic Church architecture can be seen as a reaction to nativist oranti-immigration sentiments, at least in the Northeast and Mid-west. The architecture did not so much develop as a desire to market or to proselytize - but to assert the communities stability in American society. Churches were funded locally, and usually built with immigrant labor, so at once they were job projects, grand, and usually ethnic. The Irish had to build a better church than the Polish, for example. Their very building were job projects and at once jobs by and for the poor. As for Vestmentry, these were usually made by orders of nuns and sold to parishes to support themselves and their ministries to the poor. Of course in some cases it was just as you say, conspicuous consumption. I'm not saying I am great fan of ornate churches, but there was a cultural and internal economy to their creation. Most modern churches tend to be understated, as the ethnic model and the nativist influences have disappeared. Damn. Am I a big hit at parties or what? 823978[/snapback] Master of Theology and Hockey Sherpa.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 There's a big Baptist church around here, in a northern suburb of Atlanta. Probably the largest building in the county. There's room in that thing for thousands. I've been inside of it once - large "concert sized" TV screens, stadium seating. It's nuts. I'm not much of a religious man, but I've always thought it should be more of a personal experience. A small Catholic church. The sermon/mass shouldn't have an opening act. That said, rumor has it the preacher at that Baptist church has a Ferarri *collection*. -Jeff 824234[/snapback] I think it's great if the guy is a motivational speaker....hell, my ex was baptist and I've been to quite a few services, and in all honesty it felt more like a motivational speech than a worship service anyway! You've probably heard of the SBC? Southern Baptist Convention? It's basically the largest "ruling body" of baptist churches down here. Well, the president of the SBC a few years ago happened to be the pastor at the church my in-laws belonged to. So we'd go on occasion and spend sundays with them. The first time I went I culdn't believe what I saw. There were all the screens and cameras cause they would record the service and then televise it the following week. Well, I'm taking everything in, watching the whole production, and then I notice we're about at the end. They do the whole "come up and accept Christ - be SAVED!" thing, then there is a closing message, the preacher leaves the stage, and off go the cameras. Well, a few mins later the guy comes back up on the stage - cameras off, no taping - and he's TOTALLY different! He went from being overly animated and all fired up and dramatic when the cameras were on to just talking normally the next. WTF?? lol It was one of the most disingenous things I've ever seen I'm not the best example of a religious person either, but I certainly don't feel it should be some PRODUCTION on sundays.....I thought it was just plain ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffal0 Bill5 Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 As a liberal, i even question the timing of this too. You must be kidding me. Who masterminded this ingenious political maneuver? Why is it that any headline that hits concerning homosexuality on any level is suddenly a crafty political move to stir the right wing voters? I personally think everyone should practice their religion within the confines of their own home. Heb 10:25 "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is..." Well, it's not the Catholic church you have an issue with then, it's the Bible This Bible? 1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; If you believe that this bride is "The Church", then how do you explain the children in "His own house" in verse 4? This guy is an idiot in the mold of Jimmy Swaggart publically decrying his own private problem. Actually this is more common than you would think. Private guilt often drives someone to publicly oppose what they do in secret, sort of preaching to themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjeff215 Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 I think it's great if the guy is a motivational speaker....hell, my ex was baptist and I've been to quite a few services, and in all honesty it felt more like a motivational speech than a worship service anyway! You've probably heard of the SBC? Southern Baptist Convention? It's basically the largest "ruling body" of baptist churches down here. Well, the president of the SBC a few years ago happened to be the pastor at the church my in-laws belonged to. So we'd go on occasion and spend sundays with them. The first time I went I culdn't believe what I saw. There were all the screens and cameras cause they would record the service and then televise it the following week. Well, I'm taking everything in, watching the whole production, and then I notice we're about at the end. They do the whole "come up and accept Christ - be SAVED!" thing, then there is a closing message, the preacher leaves the stage, and off go the cameras. Well, a few mins later the guy comes back up on the stage - cameras off, no taping - and he's TOTALLY different! He went from being overly animated and all fired up and dramatic when the cameras were on to just talking normally the next. WTF?? lol It was one of the most disingenous things I've ever seen I'm not the best example of a religious person either, but I certainly don't feel it should be some PRODUCTION on sundays.....I thought it was just plain ridiculous. 824244[/snapback] Yeah yeah. Personal. Perhaps "heart-felt" is a good word for it. To each his own I guess and if that's what the Southern crowd wants to do, more power to them. Really not my cup of tea. They really do all of the singing and dancing "Can I get an amen!? Can I get a hallelujah!!?" stuff. Dunked a few adults in a big tub of water. Bashed the homosexual crowd. Right out of a movie. -Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 You must be kidding me. Who masterminded this ingenious political maneuver? Why is it that any headline that hits concerning homosexuality on any level is suddenly a crafty political move to stir the right wing voters?Heb 10:25 "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is..." This Bible? 1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; If you believe that this bride is "The Church", then how do you explain the children in "His own house" in verse 4? This guy is an idiot in the mold of Jimmy Swaggart publically decrying his own private problem. Actually this is more common than you would think. Private guilt often drives someone to publicly oppose what they do in secret, sort of preaching to themselves. 824248[/snapback] last thing I want to do is get into a scipture citing contest, lol.....I guess my point is that people don't realize that Catholic beliefs/teaching are founded in both scripture and tradition. NOTHING the church teaches goes against scripture. The problem is that there are many interpretations of scripture I just don't buy into the fact that the vow of celibacy is what CAUSES things like child molestation. These people were that way before they chose the priesthood, IMO. For every one evil !@#$, there are thousands of other devout, sincere, NON-PERVERTED priests in the Catholic church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 last thing I want to do is get into a scipture citing contest, lol.....I guess my point is that people don't realize that Catholic beliefs/teaching are founded in both scripture and tradition. NOTHING the church teaches goes against scripture. The problem is that there are many interpretations of scripture I just don't buy into the fact that the vow of celibacy is what CAUSES things like child molestation. These people were that way before they chose the priesthood, IMO. For every one evil !@#$, there are thousands of other devout, sincere, NON-PERVERTED priests in the Catholic church. 824252[/snapback] Maybe. But why would someone who is this way (pedophile) choose the Catholic church as a cover? Because he knows that rather than get persecuted, he'll get relocated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Maybe. But why would someone who is this way (pedophile) choose the Catholic church as a cover? Because he knows that rather than get persecuted, he'll get relocated? 824256[/snapback] I can only imagine that if you made a list (as a pedophile, not you personally) of the top five professions to choose where you'd have access to children, be able to earn their trust, and perhaps even be 'covered up' if you were accused, a Catholic priest would rate pretty high on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 I can only imagine that if you made a list (as a pedophile, not you personally) of the top five professions to choose where you'd have access to children, be able to earn their trust, and perhaps even be 'covered up' if you were accused, a Catholic priest would rate pretty high on the list. 824257[/snapback] Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 If the allegations are true, he's got a non-earthly hurdle ahead of him. But let's get to the core...you and me want to know what kind of cars he owns! 823928[/snapback] I'm guessing Honda! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 I personally haven't been to many elaborate churches. The ones I have been to were mostly small town humble. A VERY large portion of my family has devoted their lives to God, and while I don't understand a lot of what they do, I do know that they are good, honest people who try and help people in need. From missionaries in foreign countries to rural preachers, they have found a path and chose to follow it. They live meagerly and try to show people a better life through God. This is how it should be done. As soon as $$$$ enters the equation, the fundamentals of what they preach are in serious question. 824151[/snapback] Good post. Well, it's not the Catholic church you have an issue with then, it's the Bible But why does it bother you if someone ELSE chooses to be celibate? lol 824219[/snapback] What are you talking about? Where in the Bible does it say a priest (NT) has to be celibate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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