stuckincincy Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Steinbach, IMO, is just as good as Hutchinson. The success of the Cincinnati's offense speaks for itself. Their line is regularly ranked #1 or #2, and Eric is a huge part of that. Plus, even if you think he's a tad below Hutch, there's still a team (or two) that will overpay for him. I just don't think we'll go that route. 824290[/snapback] He'll command a high price, that's for sure. I don't know if he will be offered what Hutchinson got, though. Hutch was the big winner in a pis*ing contest between two teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Switch Mangold for McCargo and I'd bet you'd be calling this the best Bills draft since some point in the eighties. There has to be something you like about these young players we picked up, no? 823700[/snapback] Sorry, not a chance. I do however admit that it is early to judge a draft. We had 5 early picks in the first 4 rounds and came away with 1 DT and 3 Defensive Backs. It would take much effort to do the research, but my guess is that no team in NFL history has ever done anything this idiotic. If in fact there is a precedent for doing something this dumb, I would wager that it was done by a football team that was SO solid up front that it could afford the blanket approach to just bring in DBs at all cost. It should be noted that Levy also signed a UFA safety. If even one of the afterthought blockers that Levy did draft turn out to be good football players, he will probably have lucked his way into a decent draft. This is what I think would have been a near perfect draft for the Bills. I said this shortly after the draft and I stick too it, even before I knew that Gradkowski (a 6th round pick) looks at the very least as good as JP. It even includes a corner. Oh, this team selected at the 23rd slot. We could have drafted these players and added at least 2 more picks, one of them a 2nd rounder (according to Marv on Sirius, Denver offered more than a 2nd to trade down). I admire you and others who look at the bright side of what I deem a disaster, or even worse, a disgrace. The truth is you are right. It CAN turn out to be a good draft. Whitner looks good. Williams has a shot imo, and we will see what Pennington brings to the table. Imo it was a great move to put him in this week, and I can't wait to focus on his play (as best I can on DTV). I AM thinking positive about the game tomorrow. GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 .......We had 5 early picks in the first 4 rounds and came away with 1 DT and 3 Defensive Backs. It would take much effort to do the research, but my guess is that no team in NFL history has ever done anything this idiotic.........824430[/snapback] Just because it's an example.... Eagles 2002... 1st round: Lito Sheppard DB 2nd round: Michael Lewis DB 3rd round: Sheldon Brown DB 3th round: Brian Westbrook RB They couldn't get to the next level without top DBs(& DB depth). In order to win a superbowl you need top talent all over the team....since Youboty & Simpson were both considered great gets where we got them it would have been dumb to take a lesser talented lineman since if you need both....& you wont win the lot without both....you get the best available guy when you believe it is that obvious they are the best available. I know you are single minded on the issue of drafting for the lines but I think you lose sight of a bigger picture. If we had drafted as the Bucs....we would have totally ignored the DL until the 5th. That would have been bad wouldn't it? I actually find it difficult to understand the thought process which basically goes.... "You didn't do what I thought you should so therefore it is terrible" What's wrong with...... "You didn't do what I thought you should but you did do some of it(DT)....it looks OK....let's see how it pans out." You deem it a disaster. If it is a disaster.....what have our previous 6 drafts been? Black/White...All/Nothing...Good/Bad That's a very limited way of looking at things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 They couldn't get to the next level without top DBs(& DB depth). 824434[/snapback] They actually drafted those DBs in preparation for the departure of Troy Vincent and that tall corner that came from Notre Dame who was really good, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 They actually drafted those DBs in preparation for the departure of Troy Vincent and that tall corner that came from Notre Dame who was really good, too. 824454[/snapback] ...but it does show the importance the Eagles placed on the secondary......which doesn't mean that they placed no importance on the lines....just that they knew the DBs were important too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 ...but it does show the importance the Eagles placed on the secondary......which doesn't mean that they placed no importance on the lines....just that they knew the DBs were important too. 824677[/snapback] They were a club with overall strength, so were in a good position to grab that many defensive becks in the 2001 draft... Eagles W-L records: '00 11 - 5 '01 11 - 5 '02 12 - 4 '03 12 - 4. The rich, indeed, got richer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Just because it's an example....Eagles 2002... 1st round: Lito Sheppard DB 2nd round: Michael Lewis DB 3rd round: Sheldon Brown DB 3th round: Brian Westbrook RB They couldn't get to the next level without top DBs(& DB depth). In order to win a superbowl you need top talent all over the team....since Youboty & Simpson were both considered great gets where we got them it would have been dumb to take a lesser talented lineman since if you need both....& you wont win the lot without both....you get the best available guy when you believe it is that obvious they are the best available. I know you are single minded on the issue of drafting for the lines but I think you lose sight of a bigger picture. If we had drafted as the Bucs....we would have totally ignored the DL until the 5th. That would have been bad wouldn't it? You deem it a disaster. If it is a disaster.....what have our previous 6 drafts been? Black/White...All/Nothing...Good/Bad That's a very limited way of looking at things. 824434[/snapback] Dibs, that was great research. Seriously, thanks. It is however interesting to note that you had to look back 6 years, and the team involved was 11-5. I did some reasearch as well. I went back to 1993 (the year after the last superbowl). The following are lists of the players who I deem to be "very good" at both "skill" and "non-skill" along with when they were drafted: "Skill Positions" 1) Thomas Smith (1st Round) 2) A.Winfield (1st Round) 3) Nate Clements (1st Round) 4) Willis MaGahee (1st Round) 5) Lee Evans (1st Round) 6) Eric Moulds (1st Round) "Non-Skill Positions" 1) Sam Cowart (2nd Round) 2) Ruben Brown (1st Round) 3) Aaron Schobel (2nd Round) The following had a shot (imo) to be very good players, but were hampered by injuries: 1) John Holocek (5th Round) 2) Damien Covington (3rd Round) 3) Jonas Jennings (3rd Round) What this tells me is that the Bills, after the superbowl years, focused their major resources on small the smaller "skill" positions wrt the draft. Yes, a case can be made that Eric Flowers didn't play well, but neither Jeff Burress (not THAT bad) nor Roscoe Parrish (still early) have set the house on fire either. If you don't think that the 06 draft was ill advised, fine. I hope you are right, but either way, this pattern needs to screech to a halt, because it has clearly not produced wins. We won some games along the way because of some very good UFAs that were brought in, such as Paup, Big Ted, Speilmann, Fletcher, and a few others, but we are seeing fewer and fewer star free agents these days. We never did see any at LT, and a scarce amount of OTs overall. Imo, whether or not Levy can resist these very questionable draft tactics becomes the question for the Bills in 07. Or, with Nate in all probability leaving, will he be not able to resist yet more early defensive backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 The problem is, the Bills had so many holes and needs that they could have drafted almost any position and it would have been deemed a need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 The problem is, the Bills had so many holes and needs that they could have drafted almost any position and it would have been deemed a need. 826630[/snapback] stop. theres no place for logic in this thread. we didnt draft all OL, so Draftbad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Dibs, that was great research. Seriously, thanks. .....but either way, this pattern needs to screech to a halt..... 826531[/snapback] Actually I didn't research much.....I remembered the Eagles had done such a draft after losing to the Rams awesome offence in the previous conference final. ....& I totally agree....if the OL is not addressed this off season(draft) after Marv. & Co. have had a full year to assess what they have(which is mainly crapola), their timing of when things need to be done will be shown to be definitely on a different scale to most. If they have managed to get the D good....& the skills positions are decent(please JP...please step up)....a few high draft picks for the OL could see us very nicely positioned in 2008. Go Bills!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seq004 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 agreed. if you want and NEED something, you sometimes have to overpay for it. Steinbach will go where the $$$ is. When the power is out, you might have to overpay for a generator. The power has been out on the o-line for a while now, time to pony to to get some juice. 822878[/snapback] That's the type of player that we would sign in the Super Bowl years that made us great but for some reason we no longer do and is why we suck. Getir done Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 That's the type of player that we would sign in the Super Bowl years that made us great but for some reason we no longer do and is why we suck. Getir done Marv 828181[/snapback] I have watched ZERO Cinci games this year, but I keep reading Palmer is get harrassed much more this year than last. To many guaranteed contracts(signing bonuses)? Or is steinbach also having a sub par year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I have watched ZERO Cinci games this year, but I keep reading Palmer is get harrassed much more this year than last. To many guaranteed contracts(signing bonuses)? Or is steinbach also having a sub par year? 828215[/snapback] Nothing to do with contracts or money. Starting C Rich Braham is gone for the season - game 2 - and LT Levi Jones likely won't come back this season - knee. Back-up WR/KR Tab Perry out for the year, WR Kelley Washington out with a hamstring. Steinbach is playing well. Past 2 games, 2nd round rookie Andrew Whitworth has been starting at LT, and the line is stabilizing. He will be playing LG when Steinbach moves on. Troubling, is that Palmer finally voiced the obvious - his left knee is still a problem. He can't plant it firmly, and has been tossing a bunch of floaters or grounders. Toughest schedule, too...PGH twice, CAR, KC, SD, ATL, NE, IND, DEN, one against the improved NO, 2 against BAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Nothing to do with contracts or money. Starting C Rich Braham is gone for the season - game 2 - and LT Levi Jones likely won't come back this season - knee. Back-up WR/KR Tab Perry out for the year, WR Kelley Washington out with a hamstring. Steinbach is playing well. Past 2 games, 2nd round rookie Andrew Whitworth has been starting at LT, and the line is stabilizing. He will be playing LG when Steinbach moves on. Troubling, is that Palmer finally voiced the obvious - his left knee is still a problem. He can't plant it firmly, and has been tossing a bunch of floaters or grounders. Toughest schedule, too...PGH twice, CAR, KC, SD, ATL, NE, IND, DEN, one against the improved NO, 2 against BAL. 828236[/snapback] Thank You for the info Mr. Cincy. Seeing as how you watch em every week, I got a feeling you prolly have have the best vantage point on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Thank You for the info Mr. Cincy. Seeing as how you watch em every week, I got a feeling you prolly have have the best vantage point on this board. 828253[/snapback] plenz, I'd love to see the Bills get Steinbach. After his initial blocking duties, he's very often seen downfield, blocking for a runner or a receiver. He's a remarkable combination of football smarts and talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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