Ramius Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Uhmmm, Yeah, and how does that work again without the Bills still having him count against the cap 10 years after he is off the team????? I'm going to try to explain this, If I may a mistake, can someone let me know, maybe I just don't understand the cap. For example, lets say the Bills feel generous and think Nate can turn it around and he agrees to a contract of $25 mil for 5 years (I know he wouldn't accept this but lets pretend) with a $15 mil signing bonus. (P.s. I made it easier to follow by using numbers that work together well) So according to my knowledge his cap figure would be 8 million a year for 5 years (breaking it down it would be his salary, $5 mil a year for five years, and his signing bonus spread accross the length of contract being $3 mil a season) Now how is it possible to give him a larger amount per year then what he counts against the cap without having him still count after he is gone? 823100[/snapback] Close. What you described is a 5 year 40 million deal. The 15 mil SB gets broken down into a 3 mil cap hit every season. Then his salaries would escalate throughout the life of the contract, for the remaining 25 mil, from 1 mil to 9 mil for example. So his yearly cap hits are yr 1 - 3 mil SB, 1 mil salary - 4 mil cap hit yr 2 - 3 mil SB, 3 mil salary - 6 mil cap hit yr 3 - 3 mil SB, 5 mil salary - 8 mil cap hit yr 4 - 3 mil SB, 7 mil salary - 10 mil cap hit yr 5 - 3 mil SB, 9 mil salary - 12 mil cap hit sure he has a low cap hit at the beginning of the deal, but those numbers inflate in a hurry. dax doesnt seem to understand this concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Close. What you described is a 5 year 40 million deal. The 15 mil SB gets broken down into a 3 mil cap hit every season. Then his salaries would escalate throughout the life of the contract, for the remaining 25 mil, from 1 mil to 9 mil for example. So his yearly cap hits are yr 1 - 3 mil SB, 1 mil salary - 4 mil cap hit yr 2 - 3 mil SB, 3 mil salary - 6 mil cap hit yr 3 - 3 mil SB, 5 mil salary - 8 mil cap hit yr 4 - 3 mil SB, 7 mil salary - 10 mil cap hit yr 5 - 3 mil SB, 9 mil salary - 12 mil cap hit sure he has a low cap hit at the beginning of the deal, but those numbers inflate in a hurry. dax doesnt seem to understand this concept. 823117[/snapback] What I'm curious about is why more teams haven't followed MN's approach with Winfield. If you have a year where you're way under the cap, why not frontload a contract with a big roster bonus (NOT a signing bonus)? The full roster bonus is charged against the cap that first year, leaving you with manageable cap #s in later years of the contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 I want Asante Samuel. Sign him!!!!! What I'm curious about is why more teams haven't followed MN's approach with Winfield. If you have a year where you're way under the cap, why not frontload a contract with a big roster bonus (NOT a signing bonus)? The full roster bonus is charged against the cap that first year, leaving you with manageable cap #s in later years of the contract. 823153[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 What I'm curious about is why more teams haven't followed MN's approach with Winfield. If you have a year where you're way under the cap, why not frontload a contract with a big roster bonus (NOT a signing bonus)? The full roster bonus is charged against the cap that first year, leaving you with manageable cap #s in later years of the contract. 823153[/snapback] My guess is that not many teams were THAT far under the cap. Red McCombs usually had the vikes at 25 mil or so below the cap. Most teams wouldnt want to spend right up to the limit, as you need some wiggle room during the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheZone78 Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 I just hope Marv can convince Wilson to open his fat wallet and bring in some quality talent. Let Nate go, he's not worth that money playing in a base Cover 2 scheme. I'd like to get a pair of actual NFL guards........I'm tired of defenses look like a jailbreak blitz when they only rush 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 We need to make runs at Freeney, Steinbach, Davis, June or Briggs, and Samuel. We'll probably be lucky to sign one of them, but just think of the possibilities. Freeney in a Bills uni , Cato June or Lance Briggs taking Takeo's old spot with him moving into the MLB spot that will be vacated at the end of the season by Fletcher , Samuel sliding into the starting spot opposite of McGee , and Steinbach along with Davis suring up the OL a little . It would be a quality off-season in the FA market. Throw in some GOOD draft picks and we'd be rolling next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Yeah, just like Bentley, Hutchinson, Shaffer, Steussie, Ashworth, Fonoti, Flanagan, and Hartwig did last year. One of these names is not like the others.... Fonoti wasn't a FA last season. He was traded to the Vikings for a seventh-round pick after the Chargers gave up on him... a trend followed by several teams since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 One of these names is not like the others.... Fonoti wasn't a FA last season. He was traded to the Vikings for a seventh-round pick after the Chargers gave up on him... a trend followed by several teams since then. 823346[/snapback] Ah, really? I thought he left as a FA. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 What I'm curious about is why more teams haven't followed MN's approach with Winfield. If you have a year where you're way under the cap, why not frontload a contract with a big roster bonus (NOT a signing bonus)? The full roster bonus is charged against the cap that first year, leaving you with manageable cap #s in later years of the contract. 823153[/snapback] I know what you are saying....it baffles me too why more teams(particularly the Bills) don't do this. I'm hoping(if it's still allowed) that we spend the rest of this years cap money later in the season to do exactly what you are talking about with some of our players we wish to sign up longer term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Ah, really? I thought he left as a FA. =) 823355[/snapback] Once upon a time, Fonoti was an up-and-coming OL prospect. But after breaking his hand in San Diego, his career sank like a rock... a very, very, very large rock, if you catch my drift. (Last rumor I heard had him weighing in at close to 400lbs.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Close. What you described is a 5 year 40 million deal. The 15 mil SB gets broken down into a 3 mil cap hit every season. Then his salaries would escalate throughout the life of the contract, for the remaining 25 mil, from 1 mil to 9 mil for example. So his yearly cap hits are yr 1 - 3 mil SB, 1 mil salary - 4 mil cap hit yr 2 - 3 mil SB, 3 mil salary - 6 mil cap hit yr 3 - 3 mil SB, 5 mil salary - 8 mil cap hit yr 4 - 3 mil SB, 7 mil salary - 10 mil cap hit yr 5 - 3 mil SB, 9 mil salary - 12 mil cap hit sure he has a low cap hit at the beginning of the deal, but those numbers inflate in a hurry. dax doesnt seem to understand this concept. 823117[/snapback] You didnt mention any incentives ... including NLTBE Incentives that dont count against the cap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 You didnt mention any incentives ... including NLTBE Incentives that dont count against the cap 823398[/snapback] ...but if those incentives are reached, not only do they come onto the following years cap....but are deemed reasonably attainable & therefore will count in the future anyway. The only real way of doing what you suggest is to cut the player from the final 2 or 3 BIG years & take the 1 year cap hit that follows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 ...but if those incentives are reached, not only do they come onto the following years cap....but are deemed reasonably attainable & therefore will count in the future anyway. The only real way of doing what you suggest is to cut the player from the final 2 or 3 BIG years & take the 1 year cap hit that follows. 823404[/snapback] With the horrid supporting cast around him ... trust me ... he will probably not reach the incentives. And yes, I was actually just going to post that ... give him a big deal and cut him before the last 2 years if you dont still have the tons of cap room we have now. Which is actually what teams like Indi, Denver, KC, Atlanta ... etc who all have little cap room seem to be doing. Notice how many of the NFL's good teams have little to no cap room? Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syhuang Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 What I'm curious about is why more teams haven't followed MN's approach with Winfield. If you have a year where you're way under the cap, why not frontload a contract with a big roster bonus (NOT a signing bonus)? The full roster bonus is charged against the cap that first year, leaving you with manageable cap #s in later years of the contract. 823153[/snapback] Vikings could do this on Winfiled's contract not because they managed their cap well. It's mainly because their cap limit (~90M) was higher than other teams (~80M) in 2004. Because LTBE incentives are counted against cap room and many of Vikings players didn't achieve their LTBE clauses in 2003, Vikings got rewarded an extra cap room of roughly 10 million dollars in 2004. Therefore, they could convert Winfiled's bonus to roster bonus and utilized this extra cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan888 Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 i think the coaching is screwing mcgee up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syhuang Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 I know what you are saying....it baffles me too why more teams(particularly the Bills) don't do this.I'm hoping(if it's still allowed) that we spend the rest of this years cap money later in the season to do exactly what you are talking about with some of our players we wish to sign up longer term. 823394[/snapback] I'm not sure if Bills can do this. I may understand the bonus rule wrong, what I remember is that the reporting or roster bonus is not prorated only if it's paid after the beginning of training camp and before the last preseason game. Otherwise, even Bills include roster bonus in a contract, it is still considered a signing bonus. One thing Bills can do is to make bonus not guaranteed, for example, non-guaranteed off-season roster bonus and non-guaranteed off-season workout bonus. However I'm not sure if players would accept big non-guaranteed bonus and if Bills could make the bonus counted against this year's cap instead of next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 I'm not sure if Bills can do this. I may understand the bonus rule wrong, what I remember is that the reporting or roster bonus is not prorated only if it's paid after the beginning of training camp and before the last preseason game. Otherwise, even Bills include roster bonus in a contract, it is still considered a signing bonus. One thing Bills can do is to make bonus non-guaranteed, for example, non-guaranteed off-season roster bonus and non-guaranteed off-season workout bonus. However I'm not sure if players would accept big non-guaranteed bonus and if Bills could make the bonus counted against this year's cap instead of next year. 823419[/snapback] How about this though...... If you tear up the old contract.....& sign the player to a new one which includes this season. You pay(as salary) to the player this season everything that is left under the cap....this in effect is a signing bonus for the player which counts as salary instead. e.g. 5 year 30mil deal year 1...18mil year 2-5....3mil per year This would make things even better down the road as the cap rises & the mojority of the players money has already been payed & is not counting towards the cap anymore. Even if the player does not pan out(injury?)....when you cut him down the track there would be no cap hit due to there being no signing bonus initially. Is there something here that I'm missing? I'm sure this is roughly what the Vikings did with Winfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Once upon a time, Fonoti was an up-and-coming OL prospect. But after breaking his hand in San Diego, his career sank like a rock... a very, very, very large rock, if you catch my drift. (Last rumor I heard had him weighing in at close to 400lbs.) 823397[/snapback] Ah, a Mike Williams sized rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 How about this though......If you tear up the old contract.....& sign the player to a new one which includes this season. You pay(as salary) to the player this season everything that is left under the cap....this in effect is a signing bonus for the player which counts as salary instead. e.g. 5 year 30mil deal year 1...18mil year 2-5....3mil per year This would make things even better down the road as the cap rises & the mojority of the players money has already been payed & is not counting towards the cap anymore. Even if the player does not pan out(injury?)....when you cut him down the track there would be no cap hit due to there being no signing bonus initially. Is there something here that I'm missing? I'm sure this is roughly what the Vikings did with Winfield. 823435[/snapback] That makes sense to me. We have the msot cap room now and it doesnt seem like their will be many FA's available to grab. Give Clements the most money now and less later when their may be more FA's available to spend $$$ on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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