I Fear That Right Around The Corner

[jdubs]

Have you ever for once in your life considered the possibility that Losman AND the O Line are horrible. It has been known to happen a few times through NFL history - no, that would just be too inconceivable!!!!!!

822139[/snapback]

 

It's a possibility, but your not even giving the kid the benefit of the doubt behind a good line. What do you expect him to do behind a line that's 3rd worst in the league in sacks allowed per plays? (at least I think that's our ranking)

 

edit: I was right - Buffalo ranks 30th of 32 teams in yards gained, 28th in scoring, 23rd in rushing, 29th in passing and third worst in sacks allowed per pass play.

[Fan in Chicago]

Have you ever for once in your life considered the possibility that Losman AND the O Line are horrible. It has been known to happen a few times through NFL history - no, that would just be too inconceivable!!!!!!

822139[/snapback]

 

And have you considered the possibility that life is just a dream ? Stop asking unsubstantiated rhetorical questions in a debate.

The stupid answer to your question is everything is possible including the hypothesis you state. Most here believe that the OL and DL are the core problems on our team and the skill positions (incl. QB) are adequate to good. There are others on this board who believe that QB is the biggest problem. Be that as it may, we have been debating this issue since before the season began. If you are going to make a statement, atleast offer some supporting evidence or your reasoned observations.

[Tortured Soul]

It's a possibility, but your not even giving the kid the benefit of the doubt behind a good line.  What do you expect him to do behind a line that's 3rd worst in the league in sacks allowed per plays? (at least I think that's our ranking)

 

edit:  I was right - Buffalo ranks 30th of 32 teams in yards gained, 28th in scoring, 23rd in rushing, 29th in passing and third worst in sacks allowed per pass play.

822141[/snapback]

But that doesn't prove anything. Remember what the sack numbers looked like when we flipped from Johnson to Flutie?

[IDBillzFan]

Have you ever for once in your life considered the possibility that Losman AND the O Line are horrible.

822139[/snapback]

The larger question is: HAVE YOU? You seem to think you can pull JP and try someone else behind a crappy OL and it might make a difference but nowhere do you suggest that they fix the OL. So if you truly believe that the OL and the QB play is horrible, then you should concede that you should fix the OL first to find out if improved OL play leads to improved QB play. If it doesn't, then, yes, it's time for JP to move on, but here's the part you seem to be avoiding: if you take this approach and JP doesn't pan out, THEN AT LEAST YOU NOW HAVE A SOLID OL.

 

Unfortunately, you seem to somehow think you can just start inserting QBs behind a crappy OL in hopes one of them pans out, and while your idea certainly smacks of immediate gratification, it also reeks of irresponsible thinking and management.

[jdubs]

But that doesn't prove anything.  Remember what the sack numbers looked like when we flipped from Johnson to Flutie?

822155[/snapback]

 

Johnson came to us as with 8 games of expierience, 2 of which, he never even threw a pass and he never got accustomed to a porous line. Flutie was a veteran who probably had to deal with that before, so Flutie had more expierience.

 

And lets not forget Flutie, Johnson, & Losman are 3 totally different people with different strenghts & weaknesses.

 

All I'm saying is give the kid a chance to play with some good o linemen and lets see what he can do. If he can't cut it then, then I think we need to get rid of him. But I personally don't see how anyone can make judgement on JP with the sacks this O line has allowed.

[ganesh]

  Of course, I will give JP a few more games.  If he continues to regress.  Make the change to Nall, see what he can do and then draft Quinn.

 

But NEVER cheer against the Bills.

821967[/snapback]

 

First of all, there is no guarantee we will be able to draft Quinn. Right now there are NINE teams in the NFL with the same 2-5 record and both Arizona and Detroit have a 1-7 record.

Secondly, getting Brady Quinn without any OL means we will have to wait for this team to be PATIENT with Quinn to get through a few more 6-10 seaons before thinking about the playoffs.

 

For the Bills long term sake, they need to get stability at that position and draft/sign OL that can block. If Losman is not the answer, then you need to

look at some FA QB who is likely to provide stability (We have to be lucky to

hit like a Jake Delhomme). You tell me which FA QB is available that can

turn into something like that, where the Bills don't have to shell out a 1st

or 2nd rounder and still hope they can find a gem. The best chance for the

Bills to succeed is to hope that Losman will succeed. To do that you need

to give him time.

 

As I said in other posts, the Bills are not losing soley because of Losman. The team is in disarray in many positions which everyone here has analyzed. You got to be patient at the QB position. When Jimmy Johnson was asked by Bradshow in a Fox pregame show in January if he was going to coach in Buffalo, he said no and said that who ever came in must be PATIENT with the young QB and develop him. If you keep getting a new body there, you will not be able to build other pieces of your team.

[cåblelady]

I really wish that I could see the good in JP but I just can't blindly hope for it anymore.

821898[/snapback]

[CFLstyle]

I'm starting to feel the same way, I've been a fan of his since he was drafted and I still am, but if he doesn't get his stuff together by the end of this season, I will be one person pushing for a guy like Matt Schaub, he would be the ideal quarterback for this team.

 

Still behind JP Losman here don't get me wrong, but time will only tell how patient I can be...

[Dr. K]

Will you use your Black & Decker power router?

[Pirate Angel]

I really wish that I could see the good in JP but I just can't blindly hope for it anymore. The two things that I look forward to most regarding the Bills are the offseason (with a lot of $$ to spend) and getting a look at Craig Nall before the season is over. I think it is an absolute MUST to give Nall at least the last 4 weeks of the season so management knows what to do for the 07 season.

 

The chances of Nall being better than JP might be slim but don't you want to know? I just don't have the same connection with this team as I have in the past and I truly believe it is the aura that surrounds Losman. That might sound weird but it is true.

 

Doesn't it make it a lot easier to get behind the team when you connect with it (and no, it does not always have to do with winning.) There is no personality with this group and the absence of leadership just makes this team look like a bunch of guys with zero passion.

821898[/snapback]

This weekend Will be losmans 16th start, In Payton Mannings first 16 games he won 3 games and threw 28 interceptions and he came out ok

[todd]

This weekend Will be losmans 16th start, In Payton Mannings first 16 games he won 3 games and threw 28 interceptions and he came out ok

822496[/snapback]

 

Enough logic! Enough facts! Enough intelligence! Baumer knows what he's talking about because he says he does!

[CFLstyle]

First of all, there is no guarantee we will be able to draft Quinn. Right now there are NINE teams in the NFL with the same 2-5 record and both Arizona and Detroit have a 1-7 record. 

Secondly, getting Brady Quinn without any OL means we will have to wait for this team to be PATIENT with Quinn to get through a few more 6-10 seaons before thinking about the playoffs.

 

For the Bills long term sake, they need to get stability at that position and draft/sign OL that can block. If Losman is not the answer, then you need to

look at some FA QB who is likely to provide stability (We have to be lucky to

hit like a Jake Delhomme). You tell me which FA QB is available that can

turn into something like that, where the Bills don't have to shell out a 1st

or 2nd rounder and still hope they can find a gem.  The best chance for the

Bills to succeed is to hope that Losman will succeed.  To do that you need

to give him time. 

 

As I said in other posts, the Bills are not losing soley because of Losman.  The team is in disarray in many positions which everyone here has analyzed.  You got to be patient at the QB position.  When Jimmy Johnson was asked by Bradshow in a Fox pregame show in January if he was going to coach in Buffalo, he said no and said that who ever came in must be PATIENT with the young QB and develop him. If you keep getting a new body there, you will not be able to build other pieces of your team.

822174[/snapback]

If we decide that we're done with JP Losman, we need to go with a veteran. Why throw a young quarterback who may or may not have reached his full potential under the bus just for another rookie who will take a couple more years to develop. We don't even know if the guy will turn out decent anyways.

 

I think there's a few possibilities and they do not include drafting a rookie.

 

We can a: stick with Losman (which would be better than starting over with a raw rookie anyways...)

 

b: go with Holcomb (Already tried this, didn't work out too well although he seems like the type of quarterback who can manage a game, this option is not recommended though.)

 

c: go with Craig Nall (Not a bad idea, he's been behind Favre for a while, he looks to have moderate to decent throwing power and accuracy, he's not the most agile but he's not a statue either, and it wouldn't take long to find out if he's the man or not.)

 

d: Sign a free agent vet (Leftwich will likely be done in Jacksonville it seems they like Garrard, now I don't like Leftwich very much and I don't think he is the answer, but it is a possibility. The other key name is Matt Shaub, from what we've seen this guy in outstanding, his accuracy is great and he's got a strong arm too, pretty hard to question his decision making, and he's agile as well. We know the Falcons won't be needing him as they have Vick, and Schaub is too good to be a backup, so availability won't be an issue. Now he's a restricted free agent so someone would have to fill me in on what it would take to sign him, I'm unfamiliar with this.)

 

e: Drafting a rookie. (As already mentioned this is not the answer.)

 

a, c, and d are the best in my opinion.

[Dibs]

I can almost see your point.  I have always hoped for the best in JP and he seeed like he was turning the corner  during the first few games.  Then and now it seems like he's regressing.  Which scares me a bit.

 

Will he ever get it?  How much longer do we have to wait on this kid?

Being a Notre Dame and Quinn fan... I'm starting to lean that way.  Of course, I will give JP a few more games.  If he continues to regress.  Make the change to Nall, see what he can do and then draft Quinn.

 

But NEVER cheer against the Bills.

821967[/snapback]

You sound like a reasonable sort of guy....but....you'll give him a few more game & that's it? Giving you the benefit of the doubt, you don't need it spelled out how much playing time he has had. What I recommend you do(& everyone of similar thoughts), go to NFL.com & look up the player stats of every starting QB in the league. You'll find that 15-18 starts rarely gets good results for a young QB. I also recommend trying to recollect what was said about other QBs in their formative years. Favre for instance had the entire stadium cheering when he finally threw one away instead of forcing an INT.....Brees 'regressed' so bad after his second (pretty much)full season as starter that SD drafted Rivers.

 

There are actually many things worse than JPL not panning out with us. One would be that we get rid of him & he pans out for another team.

Another would be that we spend our non-TOP 5 pick on a QB in hopes to replace him.....we wait 3 years.....& he's a bust too. There is much more chance of this happening than not(only 15% chance of success)....even with picks 2-5 there is only a 38% chance they pan out. QB success link

Surely it is logical to spend next FA period & draft fixing the team to not only give enough time to fully assess JP but....if he hasn't got 'it', the replacement QB will have a better chance of succeeding with the better team around him.

 

....or you could just give JP a few more games & then put Nall in.

[cantankerous]

This weekend Will be losmans 16th start, In Payton Mannings first 16 games he won 3 games and threw 28 interceptions and he came out ok

822496[/snapback]

 

 

Get real, Jon Losman has ZERO Peyton Manning in him at ALL.

 

I'm not saying our O-Line is great or even good...but I judge Jon Losman on his decisions with the football and the passes he hurls. Delay of game penalties are not the O-Line's fault. Overthrowing receivers is not the O-Line's fault. Jon Losman fumbling when colliding with the referee is not the O-Line's fault.

 

Go Bills!

[/dev/null]

I really wish that I could see the good in JP but I just can't blindly hope for it anymore.

821898[/snapback]

 

I've pretty much come to the same conclusion.

 

Now before I get flamed...

Yes I agree the OLine sucks. Even Peyton Manning would struggle with it

Yes I agree a QB needs time to develop

 

But conversely even with a great line and time to develop I don't see JP becoming more than a Trent Dilfer type QB game manager

 

Flame away if you must

[Dibs]

Get real, Jon Losman has ZERO Peyton Manning in him at ALL.

 

I'm not saying our O-Line is great or even good...but I judge Jon Losman on his decisions with the football and the passes he hurls. Delay of game penalties are not the O-Line's fault. Overthrowing receivers is not the O-Line's fault. Jon Losman fumbling when colliding with the referee is not the O-Line's fault.

 

Go Bills!

822525[/snapback]

So cantank......are you saying that upon everything you have seen of him in the situations he's been in.....& comparing him to all the QBs you have seen develop(such as Favre & Brees etc)....you are saying that you see no chance that JP can develop....that he can cut down on his errors & bad decisions....no chance that with perhaps better play calling, OL play, WR play, cohesiveness in the team or natural maturity progression on his part that he could become a good NFL starter?

It's not realistic to compare him to Manning(for either end of the argument) but to say your mind is made up(I'm not saying yours is) on his future suckiness.....he must really, really, really stink up the field because many great QBs stunk up the field in their first 15 starts yet progressed into top QBs.

[finknottle]

:

All I'm saying is give the kid a chance to play with some good o linemen and lets see what he can do.  If he can't cut it then, then I think we need to get rid of him.  But I personally don't see how anyone can make judgement on JP with the sacks this O line has allowed.

822173[/snapback]

 

Therein lies the problem. Suppose the rest of the season continues as is for JP. Are we to, again, give him a mulligan? Are we going to say "Get some good linemen and give JP 16 games with them in 07 and see what he does before you judge him"? What if the linemen don't develop quickly enough? Do we wait 'till 08? When do we stop evaluating a player on a team with flaws?

[Dibs]

I've pretty much come to the same conclusion.

 

Now before I get flamed...

Yes I agree the OLine sucks.  Even Peyton Manning would struggle with it

Yes I agree a QB needs time to develop

 

But conversely even with a great line and time to develop I don't see JP becoming more than a Trent Dilfer type QB game manager

 

Flame away if you must

822532[/snapback]

WOW....I'm constantly amazed at the level of brilliant player analysis on this board. So many of you seem to know exactly how a player will develop.

 

That being said.....you say "I don't see".....do you aknowledge that many, many times before, the perception of players, particularly QBs, has beed similar yet many players have defied the predictions to have great NFL careers?

If so, refer to post #33......if not, & you are absolutely certain of JPs demise(odds are in your favour).....I'll remember to believe everything you type in future on your talent assessments of players. I mean, if you are so certain, & I am not, you must be correct.

[DeLuca1967]

First of all, I would never let THIS team make me miserable. It's called reality. I'll let you get back to your highlite tapes now.

821995[/snapback]

 

I like the effort. But you have to know that "reality" has nothing to do with the Losman debate. If any of the Losman "fans" dealt in reality they would be screaming for another QB.

 

All Losman supporters are only just that because they won't admit that this team is as from turning things around as the Lions and Cardinals. They hold on to Losman because they want to hold on to the belief that they can compete with the Pats and the Colts. They still see the Bills as playoff contenders. Look as most of the early posts that predict 8- 9 - 10 wins. For them being a fan means living outside of "reality". The "reality" is that if Losamn was on the Jets they would be laughing at the Jets. You would be hearing how much Losman reminds them of Ray Lucas.

 

The last thing Losman supporters want to hear is "reality" or facts. Their only response is to tell you how good a QB Drew Brees is. The qoute Brees stats not Losman's.

[cantankerous]

Aye Dibs!

 

I don't think Jon has what it takes mentally when it comes to leading a team. To me he looks confused, nervous and at times lost. I know I should expect that from him but like many, i'm getting tired of watching the Bills get our asses kicked and getting NO offense while it's happening. Jon has a great arm, and quick feet but to me it seems he's too emotional whether it's good or bad.

 

Maybe i'm just sick and tired of losing...But it seems whenever he's doing well, say...mounting a comeback like the Jets game...only to blow it throwing a 5 yard out pattern at Lee Evans feet out of bounds. This Bills team is in the NFL...I expect to see a NFL caliber quarterback. I hope to God he can turn it around and make me a believer but as of now, I have no confidence he can lead this team to victories.

 

Go Bills!