Dibs Posted October 30, 2006 Posted October 30, 2006 I really dont want to get in an arguement......819695[/snapback] Wow....1st time for everything I suppose.
daquixers_is_back Posted October 30, 2006 Posted October 30, 2006 Ok man, he likes Peyton Manning. Big deal, does it do anything to you? 820000[/snapback] Thats why their is no point in debating it. I could show him multiple articles (which I did) and he will still refute it.
Dibs Posted October 30, 2006 Posted October 30, 2006 I like Peyton Manning a lot and you guys dont. Period. 819713[/snapback] I do. Honestly. He is my favourite non-Bill in the league. I loved his attitude from when he decided to stay on for his senior year at college & how he conducted himself in the combine interviews with the clubs. I don't think he is the best player in the NFL....not even the best QB....but he is my favourite player.
daquixers_is_back Posted October 30, 2006 Posted October 30, 2006 I do. Honestly. He is my favourite non-Bill in the league. I loved his attitude from when he decided to stay on for his senior year at college & how he conducted himself in the combine interviews with the clubs. I don't think he is the best player in the NFL....not even the best QB....but he is my favourite player. 820018[/snapback] I do think he is the best QB ... not the winningest (most SB's or anything) but the best 'pure QB'
Dibs Posted October 30, 2006 Posted October 30, 2006 I do think he is the best QB ... not the winningest (most SB's or anything) but the best 'pure QB' 820020[/snapback] I'd go with best 'pure QB'...no worries.
nick in* england Posted October 30, 2006 Posted October 30, 2006 As soon as I saw a Patriot fan reply to that, I knew he would want to start a debate. Thats why I said I didnt want to debate it. Peyton being the only QB who calls his own plays: But anyway. Im not going to argue this. Ive done it so many times before and its ridiculous. I like Peyton Manning a lot and you guys dont. Period. 819713[/snapback] I'm with you - I like both of the Manning brothers. I get a kick out of watching them play, not just because they have the best Surname around.
Dan Posted October 30, 2006 Posted October 30, 2006 I agree with some, Sunday without the Bills is not the same. I spent the day finishing my master bedroom/bathroom renovation and watching snippets of the games in between. I did catch the final 4-5 minutes of the Colts/Broncs game. Basically, without the Bills, Sunday becomes just another day to get crap done. I alao agree with some, Peyton is a great QB. He's definitely one of the best - of all time, not just today. Anyone that doesn't think so is just confused. I've liked him since day one in the league and he continues to impress. Hopefully, the Colts win the Superbowl this year. Not only will it occur in a year when the Bills have zero shot of even making the playoffs, but perhaps it'll quiet some of the anti-Peytonites (although I doubt it).
Dan Posted October 30, 2006 Posted October 30, 2006 Indy = rockNE = paper Denver = scissors 820219[/snapback] What's that make Buffalo?
5 Wide Posted October 30, 2006 Posted October 30, 2006 What's that make Buffalo? 820226[/snapback] Paste
daquixers_is_back Posted October 30, 2006 Posted October 30, 2006 I agree with some, Sunday without the Bills is not the same. I spent the day finishing my master bedroom/bathroom renovation and watching snippets of the games in between. I did catch the final 4-5 minutes of the Colts/Broncs game. Basically, without the Bills, Sunday becomes just another day to get crap done. I alao agree with some, Peyton is a great QB. He's definitely one of the best - of all time, not just today. Anyone that doesn't think so is just confused. I've liked him since day one in the league and he continues to impress. Hopefully, the Colts win the Superbowl this year. Not only will it occur in a year when the Bills have zero shot of even making the playoffs, but perhaps it'll quiet some of the anti-Peytonites (although I doubt it). 820188[/snapback] I know everyone will disagree with me ... but ... to me a "great QB" doesnt mean one who just wins Super Bowls. Thats a great post-season QB. A great QB to me means one who consistantly gets his team to the playoffs, can win a game singlehandidly if he needs to, be the leader of the team, and if they want break or set a few records (optional of course). Peyton does all of that. YES, he has not won a Super Bowl yet. BUT. He does consistantly get his team to the playoffs. He can and DOES singlehandidly win many games for them. He IS the leader of that team, and he spends countless hours studying for each opponent. I think his work ethic is un-matched by any other in the league. He is pretty much RIGHT NOW a 1st ballot HOF'er in my opinion. Im still trying to get over the fact that Hollywood Donahoe thinks that a ton of other QB's call their own plays. Im sorry, but when 15 different sources (most credible, NFl.com, Cbs Sportsline, and other outlets, it really takes someone special to disagree with them. Someone who has a vendetta against disliking a player. Oh ... like Hollywood Donahoe against Manning ... will do whatever they can to refute and put down the player. Hint, Hint ... Charlie Weiss called the plays in NE. If Manning does win a SB sometime during his career, the rest of the world will be calling him one of the best 3 (if not THE best) of all time and the minority of Manning-haters will make up some ridiculous excuse. Manning has been in the league for 8 years ... He has been in the top 10 of completions EVER YEAR of his career He has been in the top 10 of passing yards EVERY year of his career He has been in the top 10 of passing TD's EVERY year of his career ALL TIME LIST: (provided Pro football ref) Pass attempts: 21 Completions: 12 Passing yards: 14 Passing TDs: 10 For all of the Bills fans ... Peyton has passed Jim Kelly in TD's and will pass him in total passing yards in about 2 games (not that any of that really matters). Not to mention he is extremely durable. Partially thanks to a good offensive line and partially thanks to a good release. He is pretty tough though also ... he has taken some hard hits. In Marino's first 8 years, he missed 9 games. Peyton has missed 0. Of course everything I posted above doesnt matter to fans like Hollywood Donahoe, because until he wins the SB he is just an average QB ...
Hollywood Donahoe Posted October 30, 2006 Posted October 30, 2006 ...to fans like Hollywood Donahoe, [. . ] until [Manning] wins the SB he is just an average QB ... I don't recall ever making such a statement.
daquixers_is_back Posted October 31, 2006 Posted October 31, 2006 I don't recall ever making such a statement. 820514[/snapback] Its was just a general statement about some Patriot fans. For some reason I thought you have made arguements before about Manning not being the best in the league until he wins a SB.
Dan Posted October 31, 2006 Posted October 31, 2006 I know everyone will disagree with me ... but ... to me a "great QB" doesnt mean one who just wins Super Bowls. Thats a great post-season QB. A great QB to me means one who consistantly gets his team to the playoffs, can win a game singlehandidly if he needs to, be the leader of the team, and if they want break or set a few records (optional of course). Peyton does all of that. YES, he has not won a Super Bowl yet. BUT. He does consistantly get his team to the playoffs. He can and DOES singlehandidly win many games for them. He IS the leader of that team, and he spends countless hours studying for each opponent. I think his work ethic is un-matched by any other in the league. He is pretty much RIGHT NOW a 1st ballot HOF'er in my opinion. Im still trying to get over the fact that Hollywood Donahoe thinks that a ton of other QB's call their own plays. Im sorry, but when 15 different sources (most credible, NFl.com, Cbs Sportsline, and other outlets, it really takes someone special to disagree with them. Someone who has a vendetta against disliking a player. Oh ... like Hollywood Donahoe against Manning ... will do whatever they can to refute and put down the player. Hint, Hint ... Charlie Weiss called the plays in NE. If Manning does win a SB sometime during his career, the rest of the world will be calling him one of the best 3 (if not THE best) of all time and the minority of Manning-haters will make up some ridiculous excuse. Manning has been in the league for 8 years ... He has been in the top 10 of completions EVER YEAR of his career He has been in the top 10 of passing yards EVERY year of his career He has been in the top 10 of passing TD's EVERY year of his career ALL TIME LIST: (provided Pro football ref) Pass attempts: 21 Completions: 12 Passing yards: 14 Passing TDs: 10 For all of the Bills fans ... Peyton has passed Jim Kelly in TD's and will pass him in total passing yards in about 2 games (not that any of that really matters). Not to mention he is extremely durable. Partially thanks to a good offensive line and partially thanks to a good release. He is pretty tough though also ... he has taken some hard hits. In Marino's first 8 years, he missed 9 games. Peyton has missed 0. Of course everything I posted above doesnt matter to fans like Hollywood Donahoe, because until he wins the SB he is just an average QB ... 820306[/snapback] I'm in complete agreement. I might add though, if winning a Super Bowl was the criteria for measuring greatness, no Bill would ever be in the HOF nor considered great. You'd think that posters on a Bills' board would appreciate that more than just about any one. The one thing I will say though is that Manning, much like Elway, exemplifies exactly what makes football so great - its a team sport. As great as Manning may be, he'll never win a Super Bowl until they get a great team around him. One player can only take a team so far. That's why I like football so much, and that's why building through free agency is rarely a sure way to get to the Super Bowl.
Hollywood Donahoe Posted October 31, 2006 Posted October 31, 2006 For some reason I thought you have made arguements before about Manning not being the best in the league until he wins a SB. Peyton Manning isn't the best QB in the league, and winning a Super Bowl won't change that, because there will still be a guy in the league who has a better track record of winning than he has. That said, you claim was that I (or fans like me) would consider Manning "just an average QB" until he wins a Super Bowl. That's simply not true. Just because I don't consider him to be the best QB in the league doesn't mean I think he's "average." On the contrary, I think it's clear that outside of Brady, there is no better QB in football than Manning.
daquixers_is_back Posted October 31, 2006 Posted October 31, 2006 I'm in complete agreement. I might add though, if winning a Super Bowl was the criteria for measuring greatness, no Bill would ever be in the HOF nor considered great. You'd think that posters on a Bills' board would appreciate that more than just about any one. The one thing I will say though is that Manning, much like Elway, exemplifies exactly what makes football so great - its a team sport. As great as Manning may be, he'll never win a Super Bowl until they get a great team around him. One player can only take a team so far. That's why I like football so much, and that's why building through free agency is rarely a sure way to get to the Super Bowl. 820694[/snapback] I have mentioned that exact point many times on different message boards, and no one seems to listen.
Dan Posted October 31, 2006 Posted October 31, 2006 I have mentioned that exact point many times on different message boards, and no one seems to listen. 820697[/snapback] Listening and understanding are lost artforms. I also think that all too often people make up their mind before they know all the facts or see all the possibilities. Therefore, they get in a corner and make erroneous statments.
daquixers_is_back Posted October 31, 2006 Posted October 31, 2006 Peyton Manning isn't the best QB in the league, and winning a Super Bowl won't change that, because there will still be a guy in the league who has a better track record of winning than he has. That said, you claim was that I (or fans like me) would consider Manning "just an average QB" until he wins a Super Bowl. That's simply not true. Just because I don't consider him to be the best QB in the league doesn't mean I think he's "average." On the contrary, I think it's clear that outside of Brady, there is no better QB in football than Manning. 820696[/snapback] Jee. A Patriot fan picking Brady. What a suprise. Well anyway. Your entitled to your opinion. Personally I dont think Tom Brady is as good as Peyton Manning. Considering you said that SB's wont change anything, lets just look at some different things: ----- Peyton Manning is in the top 25 of NFL QB's (history of the game) for 4 different categories. Attempts, Completions, Yards, and TD's. Tom Brady is not in the top 50 of any category in passing. Here is my point. Brady is the most WINNINGEST QB in the leauge and probably of the past decade. No doubt in (I would *hope* anyone's mind). But (in my strong opinion) Peyton Manning is the best "pure" (without SB/playoffs in mind) QB in the league and one of the best of all time. Tom Brady's SB teams were a TEAM. Peyton Manning's teams are an OFFENSE. Peyton knows he will most likely have to outscore teams, just like he had to yesterday. Tom Brady had one of the best offensive minds of the past decade, Charlie Weiss. Peyton Manning (even though you dont want to believe it) calls his own plays .. and once in a while he will change his formation/play at the line if he sees something he doesnt like in the defense. Some of that arm stuff is just hoopla. But guess what ... that hoopla is effective. Something people havent seem to have noticed about Manning until this year is his ability to win close games. Vic Carucci just wrote an article on how when the game is on the line and the Colts are down with a minute left, he has no doubt that Peyton will lead them back to win. I guess my point is that I believe Peyton would have won all 3 SB's if he was on the Patriots those years also. Brady won the SB against St. Louis with 145 yard and 1 TD. Are you telling me Peyton wouldnt have done that and more? The win against Carolina was more impressive with 300+ yards, 3 TD's and 1 INT. Although they did just squeek out the victory. Then his last SB he had another decent performance with about 230 yards and 2 TD's. I think Peyton would have done the same thing in the same scenario with those Patriot times. To me Tom Brady sometimes has to rely on his special teams/defense to win games. Peyton has to win the game by himself (well the offense) in about 95% of the games they play. If you dont agree, then thats fine. Life goes on.
Dibs Posted October 31, 2006 Posted October 31, 2006 Jee. A Patriot fan picking Brady. What a suprise. Well anyway. Your entitled to your opinion. Personally I dont think Tom Brady is as good as Peyton Manning. Considering you said that SB's wont change anything, lets just look at some different things: ----- Peyton Manning is in the top 25 of NFL QB's (history of the game) for 4 different categories. Attempts, Completions, Yards, and TD's. Tom Brady is not in the top 50 of any category in passing. Here is my point. Brady is the most WINNINGEST QB in the leauge and probably of the past decade. No doubt in (I would *hope* anyone's mind). But (in my strong opinion) Peyton Manning is the best "pure" (without SB/playoffs in mind) QB in the league and one of the best of all time. Tom Brady's SB teams were a TEAM. Peyton Manning's teams are an OFFENSE. Peyton knows he will most likely have to outscore teams, just like he had to yesterday. Tom Brady had one of the best offensive minds of the past decade, Charlie Weiss. Peyton Manning (even though you dont want to believe it) calls his own plays .. and once in a while he will change his formation/play at the line if he sees something he doesnt like in the defense. Some of that arm stuff is just hoopla. But guess what ... that hoopla is effective. Something people havent seem to have noticed about Manning until this year is his ability to win close games. Vic Carucci just wrote an article on how when the game is on the line and the Colts are down with a minute left, he has no doubt that Peyton will lead them back to win. I guess my point is that I believe Peyton would have won all 3 SB's if he was on the Patriots those years also. Brady won the SB against St. Louis with 145 yard and 1 TD. Are you telling me Peyton wouldnt have done that and more? The win against Carolina was more impressive with 300+ yards, 3 TD's and 1 INT. Although they did just squeek out the victory. Then his last SB he had another decent performance with about 230 yards and 2 TD's. I think Peyton would have done the same thing in the same scenario with those Patriot times. To me Tom Brady sometimes has to rely on his special teams/defense to win games. Peyton has to win the game by himself (well the offense) in about 95% of the games they play. If you dont agree, then thats fine. Life goes on. 820713[/snapback] Hey daq.....I thought you didn't want to argue this. IMO it's very much like comparing Marino to Montana. It comes back to personal preference on the importance of each factor involved.....and perhaps a large amount of gut reaction. It's not the sort of thing which one can have a right & wrong opinion is it?
BuffOrange Posted October 31, 2006 Posted October 31, 2006 Listening and understanding are lost artforms. I also think that all too often people make up their mind before they know all the facts or see all the possibilities. Therefore, they get in a corner and make erroneous statments. 820704[/snapback] I hear where you're coming from, but by the same token I also think the modern online/talk radio culture causes people to lump in games/seasons together as if they're all the same. A good example is Philly right now, where everyone wants to fire Andy Reid and cut McNabb. They got outplayed vs. the Jags & Saints - but to pretend like they weren't the victims of terrible luck vs. the Giants & Bucs or that the common denominator in all 4 of their losses is the same - it's dumb. Regarding Brady, you really have to separate 2001 from post 2001. I don't give him much credit for that season because it was the luckiest team ever and the offense did next to nothing the postseason and him winning the MVP of the Rams game is a joke. But what the guy has done since is pretty incredible, and I have a hard time buying this theory that his team was heads & shoulders better than the Colts in 03-04. The score of that 03 championship game was like 13-3 in the 4th Qtr despite a gazillion Manning interceptions and in the 04 game the Pats are playing with a butchered secondary featuring Troy Brown. I think putting the majority of the blame on the Colts defense for those games when offense was supposed to be their bread & butter is just silly.
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