bigbillsfan12 Posted October 27, 2006 Posted October 27, 2006 some fantasy segment.... bills cam... willis mentions he's #2 in afc in rushing behind t. bell, and say's "but he has that great O-line there" and then they change the subject. kind of thought it was funny, him taking that little dig at his O-line. you can tell what he's thinking.
daquixers_is_back Posted October 27, 2006 Posted October 27, 2006 Dont worry ... someone will post about him being a terrible, horrible back, who doesnt get 200 yards a game and its not the 0-lines fault that he sucks.
Buftex Posted October 27, 2006 Posted October 27, 2006 some fantasy segment.... bills cam... willis mentions he's #2 in afc in rushing behind t. bell, and say's "but he has that great O-line there" and then they change the subject. kind of thought it was funny, him taking that little dig at his O-line.you can tell what he's thinking. 818714[/snapback] I don't know if that constitutes a dig...there is just this perception that the Broncos O-line, under Mike Shanahan, can pretty much make even an average NFL back into a superstar. But, true, our offensive line is nowhere near that caliber.
apuszczalowski Posted October 27, 2006 Posted October 27, 2006 I don't see how thats a dig, seeing as how he is just telling the truth. Its like going up to some one with a mental disability and calling them a retard, its not nice or a PC thing to do, but it is true.
bigbillsfan12 Posted October 27, 2006 Author Posted October 27, 2006 apuszczalowski you retard!!!.... just kidding.
zow2 Posted October 27, 2006 Posted October 27, 2006 Is Denver's line so much more talented than everyone else year in & year out?!? or do they just have superior coaching/system? I'm asking because i have no idea. You always hear about Denver's O-line.
apuszczalowski Posted October 27, 2006 Posted October 27, 2006 apuszczalowski you retard!!!.... just kidding. 818726[/snapback] Hey man, read the sign, I'm only in it for the parking It was also a bit of a "The Office" Reference
LabattBlue Posted October 27, 2006 Posted October 27, 2006 Dont worry ... someone will post about him being a terrible, horrible back, who doesnt get 200 yards a game and its not the 0-lines fault that he sucks. 818716[/snapback] ...and then someone else will come along and give WM the ballwashing of a lifetime.
ganesh Posted October 27, 2006 Posted October 27, 2006 I don't see how thats a dig, seeing as how he is just telling the truth. Its like going up to some one with a mental disability and calling them a retard, its not nice or a PC thing to do, but it is true. 818725[/snapback] Isn't that more stabbing in the back....Why would you bad mouth your own teammates on a national media...It is one thing to tell your own lineman that they suck and need to improve their game.... Just as how I defend Losman, for not being the sole reason why this team is 2-5, the OL is also not the sole reason why we are 2-5...This team as a whole needs a different attitude.
Astrobot Posted October 27, 2006 Posted October 27, 2006 Is Denver's line so much more talented than everyone else year in & year out?!? or do they just have superior coaching/system? I'm asking because i have no idea. You always hear about Denver's O-line. " Over the years, I’ve always watched Denver on film and seen the offensive line. But I didn’t know the line worked so hard and did what they do. And the scheme here is incredible. It’s just perfect. You plug in the right running back into that style, with these linemen and with (fullback) Howard Griffith, it’s unbelievable." The above was said in 2000 by RB Raymont Harris. At the time, they had the lightest line in the NFL--287.8 pounds. It was OLT Tony Jones (291 pounds), OLG Mark Schlereth (287), C Tom Nalen (286), ORG Daniel Neil (285) and ORT Matt Lepsis (290). Fullback was Howard Griffith, a big help in his own right. Many of these years Alex Gibbs was the coach and Elway was the QB. Another factor. Zone blocking schemes, possibly cut-blocking, and stretching the defense laterally with their speed and quickness are other reasons. Mark Schlereth once said that the difference was the time the O-Line put in. "There's not a guy on our offensive line who's not in the facility at 7 o'clock for a 9 o'clock meeting."
stuckincincy Posted October 27, 2006 Posted October 27, 2006 The DEN O-line has a long-time reputation for chop blocks, leg and knee shots and the like. A couple of years ago, their OT Foster hit a B'gal DT - Tony Williams if I recall in the calves, away from the play and ruined his career. Seems ATL is getting there, too... "Hampton calls out Falcons NFL notebook PITTSBURGH - Pittsburgh Steelers defensive lineman Casey Hampton rattled off several expletives Thursday while complaining Atlanta guard Tyson Clabo intentionally tried to hurt him with a block to the back of his legs. "I can't tell you what I told him, but it was all dirty, man," Hampton said. "That's like you have no respect for the game. You're just out there trying to hurt somebody and I'm out there trying to make a living. I was real, real mad and I let him know I was real mad, too." Hampton said the block came as he was trying to run down a receiver along the sideline during the Falcons' 41-38 overtime victory Sunday in Atlanta. Hampton, a Pro Bowl lineman last season, became the second Steelers player in two days to complain about Atlanta's style of play."..." http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...0375/1067/SPT02
MDH Posted October 27, 2006 Posted October 27, 2006 Isn't that more stabbing in the back....Why would you bad mouth your own teammates on a national media...It is one thing to tell your own lineman thatthey suck and need to improve their game.... 818747[/snapback] So now all Willis has to do is insult the receivers and he'll have hit all parts of the offense...except himself. If he was LT I’d still want him to STFU and just play. As it is, he’s no LT and his game isn’t good enough to be publicly criticizing everybody else.
jarthur31 Posted October 28, 2006 Posted October 28, 2006 some fantasy segment.... bills cam... willis mentions he's #2 in afc in rushing behind t. bell, and say's "but he has that great O-line there" and then they change the subject. kind of thought it was funny, him taking that little dig at his O-line.you can tell what he's thinking. 818714[/snapback] But that's the truth. How is it that our mobile QB leads the league in sacks then?
apuszczalowski Posted October 28, 2006 Posted October 28, 2006 some fantasy segment.... bills cam... willis mentions he's #2 in afc in rushing behind t. bell, and say's "but he has that great O-line there" and then they change the subject. kind of thought it was funny, him taking that little dig at his O-line.you can tell what he's thinking. 818714[/snapback] I also have to add that it is not a dig at his own o-line, he mentions nothing about them, he is just giving credit to the Denver o-line and how they are one of the best. Unless we are missing the part where he says "Unlike me" Everyone knows Buffalos o-line is one of the weakest spots, I think even they know it.
Lv-Bills Posted October 28, 2006 Posted October 28, 2006 Dont worry ... someone will post about him being a terrible, horrible back, who doesnt get 200 yards a game and its not the 0-lines fault that he sucks. 818716[/snapback] Wasn't really gonna say he's horrible. I was just gonna talk a little bit about Tatum Bell. You know, the back who wasn't even the starter for a few games with a terrific burst and cutback ability. Not to mention, I would even bet he's carried the ball significantly less than the rushers behind him, particularly the #2 back, in YARDS. It's nice to see a running back able to take it to the house when the opportunity presents itself. And I'm pretty sure it has presented itself a time or two here in Buffalo, I just can't remember when. Some orginizations make wise decisions and would sell high. Some don't. RB's are a dime a dozen. RB's without any speed or good lateral movement are in that dozen. Teams like the Patriots would move on and sell high, while everyone's perception is skewed. I.E. Lawyer Milloy, Deion Branch, David Givens (Remember him?), Damien Woody.....and the list goes on and on and on. It's amazing, the Pats either win the division or make it to the Super Bowl every year. Yet, every year they have two first round draft picks somehow. Willis McGahee would be a prime example of the type of player that an organization, like New England, would sell high. And then all of the ESPN lemmings would sit there and scratch their heads again at how NE wins every year. Meanwhile Willis would be in Detroit or somewhere else, with 1100 yards on 774 carries, with a long run of 22 yards on the year.
Dan Posted October 28, 2006 Posted October 28, 2006 Wasn't really gonna say he's horrible. I was just gonna talk a little bit about Tatum Bell. You know, the back who wasn't even the starter for a few games with a terrific burst and cutback ability. Not to mention, I would even bet he's carried the ball significantly less than the rushers behind him, particularly the #2 back, in YARDS. It's nice to see a running back able to take it to the house when the opportunity presents itself. And I'm pretty sure it has presented itself a time or two here in Buffalo, I just can't remember when. Some orginizations make wise decisions and would sell high. Some don't. RB's are a dime a dozen. RB's without any speed or good lateral movement are in that dozen. Teams like the Patriots would move on and sell high, while everyone's perception is skewed. I.E. Lawyer Milloy, Deion Branch, David Givens (Remember him?), Damien Woody.....and the list goes on and on and on. It's amazing, the Pats either win the division or make it to the Super Bowl every year. Yet, every year they have two first round draft picks somehow. Willis McGahee would be a prime example of the type of player that an organization, like New England, would sell high. And then all of the ESPN lemmings would sit there and scratch their heads again at how NE wins every year. Meanwhile Willis would be in Detroit or somewhere else, with 1100 yards on 774 carries, with a long run of 22 yards on the year. 819083[/snapback] In essence, I agree with you're arguement about the Patriots. However, there's one slight problem with this reasoning, at this point. The Patriots are a solid team with a strong core of players. Therefore, they can more easily bring in new guys and stay consistent. The Bills, on the other hand, have no core. Consequently, if we trade Willis , for example, and draft another RB; when would we draft the lineman, the TE, the LB, etc. We have simply have too many holes to let good solid players go yet. As I recall, the Patriots, as they were builing their Super Bowl teams, didn't let players go as easily. It's only been in recent years. They did, however, bring in good, solid players that just performed. Look at Antwain Smith, our no good RB, they bring him in and go get to the Super Bowl with him as the feature back, he wasn't great, but he was solid. So, if we really wanted to emulate the Patriots success, Willis is defintely someone you keep - at least until you have a solid QB, line and TE. Then you can think about a new RB. This was much of TD's problem. He drafted Travis - a good but not great back. But rather than address other issues in later drafts; he picks Willis. He has Drew, a good but not great QB, so he fradt JP. He trades Peerless and drafts Parish. In other words he was spinning his wheels - not building but simply replacing one good player with another good player. So I say, lets not go after flash, lets keep the good players we have and try to draft and sign new players to replace the bad ones on the line, etc. first. We can worry about Willis and his attitude in a few years.
Lv-Bills Posted October 28, 2006 Posted October 28, 2006 In essence, I agree with you're arguement about the Patriots. However, there's one slight problem with this reasoning, at this point. The Patriots are a solid team with a strong core of players. Therefore, they can more easily bring in new guys and stay consistent. The Bills, on the other hand, have no core. Consequently, if we trade Willis , for example, and draft another RB; when would we draft the lineman, the TE, the LB, etc. We have simply have too many holes to let good solid players go yet. As I recall, the Patriots, as they were builing their Super Bowl teams, didn't let players go as easily. It's only been in recent years. They did, however, bring in good, solid players that just performed. Look at Antwain Smith, our no good RB, they bring him in and go get to the Super Bowl with him as the feature back, he wasn't great, but he was solid. So, if we really wanted to emulate the Patriots success, Willis is defintely someone you keep - at least until you have a solid QB, line and TE. Then you can think about a new RB. This was much of TD's problem. He drafted Travis - a good but not great back. But rather than address other issues in later drafts; he picks Willis. He has Drew, a good but not great QB, so he fradt JP. He trades Peerless and drafts Parish. In other words he was spinning his wheels - not building but simply replacing one good player with another good player. So I say, lets not go after flash, lets keep the good players we have and try to draft and sign new players to replace the bad ones on the line, etc. first. We can worry about Willis and his attitude in a few years. 819123[/snapback] Here's my premise....... It really has nothing to do with Willis. A good football mind would realize that running backs are a dime a dozen. A good football mind, albeit thinking on a championship level, would also realize that they could sell Willis now, while his stock is high and grab two players....whether they are draft picks or NFL ready players. If you trade Willis to the right organization, he'll suck forever, because he really can't make plays on his own. So, if you can get an AFC to mortgage or kill cap space by trading for him, Willis will stay mediocre at best. You, on the other hand, will be getting cap room and/or players and draft picks. You don't trade guys like Jason Peters, Lee Evans etc, but Willis......hell yes, ship his ass off, and start building the team by dealing mediocrity for multiple players. Willis MIGHT be our best player...........although, just because he is, doesn't make him a stud. The Kansas City Royals, and Pittsburgh Pirates have their "best" players also.....doesn't make them worth keeping.
Dan Posted October 28, 2006 Posted October 28, 2006 Here's my premise....... It really has nothing to do with Willis. A good football mind would realize that running backs are a dime a dozen. A good football mind, albeit thinking on a championship level, would also realize that they could sell Willis now, while his stock is high and grab two players....whether they are draft picks or NFL ready players. If you trade Willis to the right organization, he'll suck forever, because he really can't make plays on his own. So, if you can get an AFC to mortgage or kill cap space by trading for him, Willis will stay mediocre at best. You, on the other hand, will be getting cap room and/or players and draft picks. You don't trade guys like Jason Peters, Lee Evans etc, but Willis......hell yes, ship his ass off, and start building the team by dealing mediocrity for multiple players. Willis MIGHT be our best player...........although, just because he is, doesn't make him a stud. The Kansas City Royals, and Pittsburgh Pirates have their "best" players also.....doesn't make them worth keeping. 819130[/snapback] Why is Willis fair game, but Evans and Peters are hands off? It seems like if we're taking this approach you take whatever trades you can get. What if someone is offering us 2 picks for Evans or Peters? Seems like we should take that, then. I would consider both of them in the same class as Willis, good, but not great players.
Lv-Bills Posted October 28, 2006 Posted October 28, 2006 Why is Willis fair game, but Evans and Peters are hands off? It seems like if we're taking this approach you take whatever trades you can get. What if someone is offering us 2 picks for Evans or Peters? Seems like we should take that, then. I would consider both of them in the same class as Willis, good, but not great players. 819132[/snapback] Well, it's just me but Evans and Peters still have upside. Peters could be a dominant LT. Evans, IMO, would be an outstanding 1B. We need a tall, 1A WR to be a championship team. Willis doens't posess anything that I don't think we could find in the latter part of a draft. He doesn't have speed. He lack elusiveness, and he lacks big play ability. Evans has all of those. Peters can become dominant because he is still getting better. IMO, those are the guys you keep. Add a WR to Evans and a tackle with Peters skills, and now you are starting to have something. Those players will make it easier for ANY RB to run. Willis is a player that has skills that are replaceable and easy to find. They get even easier to find with a good offensive line. ALA, Leon Washington of the NY Jets, or the Denver Bronco's RB's over the last 7 years. Evans and Peters have skills that are hard to find. Evans might be replaceable, but you need two stud wideouts in today's game, AND a solid #3 to win a championship. Evans will be needed eventually. And with another player of his caliber, an offense would be almost impossible to stop.....ala the Bengals, when healthy, and the Colts, Rams, etc. If Willis is overvalued, which I think he only is overvalued with Bills fans, trade him NOW, and start putting together the pieces to a real football team, and add the RB last.......as icing on the cake.
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