MDH Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 I saw a few of Manning's early games. He's stas were brutal, but he had presence and strength. 817975[/snapback] Presence and strength? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Presence and strength? 818056[/snapback] Respect his Authoritah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantankerous Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Comparing Losman to Manning is a joke. They're not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazykat Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Yes I know that they were both drafted in the 1st round in 2004. But I'm only looking at real on-the-field regular season gametime as their team's starting QB. Both JP and Eli started half their team's games in the year before becoming their respective team's full time starter the following season. Eli's 1st 7 games 2005: 81.7 Passer rating average 50.3 completion percentage 5 interceptions 4 fumbles JP's 1st 7 games 2006: 79.3 Passer rating average 61.9 completion percentage 6 inteceptions 8 fumbles To me, these stats are a clear indication that some here are going way overboard in their criticisms of JP. Eli even had some clunker turnover games later on in the season including 4 interceptions against MIN on 11/3 and 3 interceptions against PHI on 12/11. Yes, JP needs to take care of the football but there's absolutely no reason to dog him by already labeling him a failure in the NFL. It's too soon. I don't remember the Giant fans throwing Eli under the bus like so many here are willing to do with JP. I still think JP has a big upside and that he's still learning. It didn't help him that he was probably going against two defenses that are Superbowl calibre in the last three weeks. He now needs to hold onto the ball and throw some touchdowns, give him some time. 817775[/snapback] JP's being used as an excuse for the issues of the entire team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted October 27, 2006 Author Share Posted October 27, 2006 Comparing Losman to Manning is a joke. They're not even close. 818109[/snapback] The jokes on you. JP compares very favorably to where Eli was at the same point last season. Sorry to burst your "not even close" notion. JP never had a lifetime of an all-pro father and brother helping him learn the ropes of the NFL, nor does he have the quality players that Eli had around him in 2005. Yet he still has managed to put up similar numbers to Eli. But hey, you've obviously jumped off the Losman bandwagon so I guess there's no use arguing with someone like you who's already given up on the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 The jokes on you. JP compares very favorably to where Eli was at the same point last season. Sorry to burst your "not even close" notion. JP never had a lifetime of an all-pro father and brother helping him learn the ropes of the NFL, nor does he have the quality players that Eli had around him in 2005. Yet he still has managed to put up similar numbers to Eli. But hey, you've obviously jumped off the Losman bandwagon so I guess there's no use arguing with someone like you who's already given up on the guy. 818131[/snapback] Cantakerous is right ... you just cant compare them. JP is not in Eli's league yet. Manning through 16 games and JP through 16 games is a world of difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Comparing Losman to Manning is a joke. They're not even close. 818109[/snapback] And they called Whitner a reach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 By handing it off to Tiki Barber. 817802[/snapback] But wait a minute, isn't WM supposed to be a top 5 back? Maybe we should merge the apologies and excuses into a single thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 But wait a minute, isn't WM supposed to be a top 5 back? Maybe we should merge the apologies and excuses into a single thread. 818145[/snapback] What does that have to do with anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 But wait a minute, isn't WM supposed to be a top 5 back? Maybe we should merge the apologies and excuses into a single thread. 818145[/snapback] tiki barber has been the best rb in football for the past 3 years.Guys the talent level of Barber are very rare. Barber reminds me a lot of Thurman Thomas. McGahee is a good rb in his own right but he's no tiki barber. Of course we also don't have a jeremey shockey, or plaxico burress or a defensive line as good as the giants, but back to the point of the thread. Losman does not show the field awareness or pocket presence that eli has shown. Yeah we lack the playmakers the giants have including the quaterback position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 tiki barber has been the best rb in football for the past 3 years.Guys the talent level of Barber are very rare. 818155[/snapback] I think Tomlinson, Priest Holmes, and Shaun Alexander might have something to say about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolinaBill99 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Instead of comparing JP to ELI....What about Drew Brees? Drew didn't get good until his third full year at San Diego with all the talent around him like LT, Gates, and a solid Defense. I do not know if JP is the franchise QB, but what do we have to lose at this point? We could have Joe Montana on this team and we are not going to the playoffs! We have a young, porous defense that is improving but is a few positions away from being good. An offensive line that is offensive... One true good receiver and no tight end. A coaching staff and front office that had to pretty much start from scratch. Overall, Give JP the rest of the year and evaluate in the off-season. If he doesn't show signs of improving, then I agree we should move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 I think Tomlinson, Priest Holmes, and Shaun Alexander might have something to say about that. 818166[/snapback] I doubt it barber has more yards then any of them in the past 3 years. I've gone over this before but basically barber has more yards rushing and rec then tomlinson, more runs of 20+ yards more receptions of 20+ yards, longer runs but less td's. Barber is also the leader in yards from scrimmage the last 2 seasons. edit: Barber's 2,390 total yards for 2005 was second highest in nfl history behind Marshall Faulk's 2,429 total yards in 1999. It is also the highest total for a running back over or at the age of 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartshan-83 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 I think Tomlinson, Priest Holmes, and Shaun Alexander might have something to say about that. 818166[/snapback] Who do you think has led the all RBs in Rushing yards, Receiving yards and total yards from 2003-present? Hell, I'll give you the answer... Tiki Barber 5241 rushing 4.8 avg. 201 catches 1791 receiving 7032 total yds. LT 4915 rushing 4.4 avg. 236 catches 1782 yds 6697 total yds. Shaun Alexander 5198 rushing 4.6 avg. 85 catches 565 receiving 5763 total yds. Priest Holmes has only played one full season since 2003. Pretty hard to argue against a guy who puts up the best numbers with the least amount of support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Who do you think has led the all RBs in Rushing yards, Receiving yards and total yards from 2003-present? Hell, I'll give you the answer... Tiki Barber 5241 rushing 4.8 avg. 201 catches 1791 receiving 7032 total yds. 818186[/snapback] Not to mention he's also leading the league again in yards from scrimmage is the current nfl leading rusher and on pace for 2,317 total yards. 1725 yards rushing and 592 yards rec. He'd be a shoe in for the hall of fame if he wasn't retiring after this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Yeah,change O-lines and receivers and then see what happens. Get a clue,Oh and don`t forget the rb`s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 I doubt it barber has more yards then any of them in the past 3 years. I've gone over this before but basically barber has more yards rushing and rec then tomlinson, more runs of 20+ yards more receptions of 20+ yards, longer runs but less td's. Barber is also the leader in yards from scrimmage the last 2 seasons.edit: Barber's 2,390 total yards for 2005 was second highest in nfl history behind Marshall Faulk's 2,429 total yards in 1999. It is also the highest total for a running back over or at the age of 30. 818180[/snapback] Tiki Barber (last 3 years): 4594 rush yards, 24 TD's 4.8 YPC 175 receptions for 1,569 rec yards for 5 TD's ------------------- If were going to look at Priest Holmes, we have to look at the last 3 years he actually played. In those 3 years he had 4590 rush yards, 56 Touchdowns 4.8 YPC 206 receptions ( ) for 1976 rec yards for 5 TD's 6 fumbles ------------------- Ladanian Tomlinson 4,442 rush yards, 48 Touchdowns 4.5 YPC 204 receptions, for 1,536 rec yards for 7 TD's 11 fumbles ------------------- Shaun Alexander 5,011 yards, 57 Touchdowns 4.8 YPC not a good receiving back 14 fumbles Now lets just go over this because BartinND seems to agree with WhozBack ... Barber (out of this list) is 2nd in rushing yards, 4th in rushing TD's, 3rd in receptions, tied for 3rd in receiving TD's, 1st with the most fumbles, and is tied with all but 1 on this list with a 4.8 YPC What you both were doing is including the 6 games from this year. You cant do that. RB numbers CAN fluctuate HUGE throughout a season .. especially with one of them (Alexander) being hurt. Also. Tiki Barber has more 20+ yard runs than most of them but I see this as somewhat of a good/bad thing. Good that he is getting those long rungs, but bad because they arent going for TD's (he is the lowest in TD's), and it makes his YPC look higher than it should be. He is a 1 yard, 3 yard, 2 yard, 20 yard back. He isnt a consistant 5 yard, 3 yard, 6 yard back like say Tomlinson, who only gets about 7-8 long runs a year. Personally I would say Tomlinson is much more valuable than Barber. Tomlinson has SLIGHTLY lower rushing yards, WAY more TD's, nearly 40 more receptions, 2 more receiving TD's, and 4 less fumbles. Thats my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartshan-83 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 All the stuff daquixers said...818208[/snapback] It's obviously not clear cut...but the statement YOU responded to was "tiki barber has been the best rb in football for the past 3 years." You can't take Priest Holmes and his "REAL" three years...it's not relevant. And your argument about the TDs is decent, except that neither Alexander nor LT has a short yardage back like Brandon Jacobs who absorbs a lot of TDs. LT is certainly dynamic and Alexander is a great workhorse runner. But I'd take Tiki over both of them right now and his numbers for the past three years back that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 just to further my stance home about Barber. First player in NFL history with 1,800 rushing yards and 500 receiving yards in one season In 2005, Barber became one of three players in NFL history with at least three 200-yard rushing games in a season (O.J. Simpson had three in 1973 and Earl Campbell ran for at least 200 yards four times in 1980) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 It's obviously not clear cut...but the statement YOU responded to was "tiki barber has been the best rb in football for the past 3 years." You can't take Priest Holmes and his "REAL" three years...it's not relevant. And your argument about the TDs is decent, except that neither Alexander nor LT has a short yardage back like Brandon Jacobs who absorbs a lot of TDs. LT is certainly dynamic and Alexander is a great workhorse runner. But I'd take Tiki over both of them right now and his numbers for the past three years back that up. 818215[/snapback] I understand your point about Holmes. You entitled to your opinion. Just like we all are. P.S. Turner is a back that absorbs a lot of yards that Tomlinson would be getting. As it is, LT is barely behind Barber ... Turner had over 300+ yards last year and 3 TD's. Jacobs has barely 300 yards in TWO SEASONS. But hey if you want to give Barber the TD's Jacobs took away then fine ... but he is still WAY far away in the TD race. also ... their is a reason why Tiki isnt the one getting the touches at the goal. *fumble, fumble, fumble* ... they didnt just decide to give Jacobs the ball for no reason. just to further my stance home about Barber. First player in NFL history with 1,800 rushing yards and 500 receiving yards in one season In 2005, Barber became one of three players in NFL history with at least three 200-yard rushing games in a season (O.J. Simpson had three in 1973 and Earl Campbell ran for at least 200 yards four times in 1980) 818219[/snapback] Tiki over both of them right now and his numbers for the past three years back that up. His numbers actually show he is only leading in 1 category ... rushing yards .. and by a VERY SLIM margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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