1billsfan Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 Yes I know that they were both drafted in the 1st round in 2004. But I'm only looking at real on-the-field regular season gametime as their team's starting QB. Both JP and Eli started half their team's games in the year before becoming their respective team's full time starter the following season. Eli's 1st 7 games 2005: 81.7 Passer rating average 50.3 completion percentage 5 interceptions 4 fumbles JP's 1st 7 games 2006: 79.3 Passer rating average 61.9 completion percentage 6 inteceptions 8 fumbles To me, these stats are a clear indication that some here are going way overboard in their criticisms of JP. Eli even had some clunker turnover games later on in the season including 4 interceptions against MIN on 11/3 and 3 interceptions against PHI on 12/11. Yes, JP needs to take care of the football but there's absolutely no reason to dog him by already labeling him a failure in the NFL. It's too soon. I don't remember the Giant fans throwing Eli under the bus like so many here are willing to do with JP. I still think JP has a big upside and that he's still learning. It didn't help him that he was probably going against two defenses that are Superbowl calibre in the last three weeks. He now needs to hold onto the ball and throw some touchdowns, give him some time.
RayFinkle Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 Manning- 5-2 Losman- 2-5 Manning finds a way to get it done.
D_House Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 Manning- 5-2 Losman- 2-5 Manning finds a way to get it done. 817799[/snapback] By handing it off to Tiki Barber.
RayFinkle Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 By handing it off to Tiki Barber. 817802[/snapback] Throwing to Tiki Barber too. Manning through 7 games: 1560yds 13 TDs 5 Ints Losman through 7 games: 1313yds 6 TDs 6 Ints
Zulu Cthulhu Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 To me, these stats are a clear indication that some here are going way overboard in their criticisms of JP. Eli even had some clunker turnover games later on in the season including 4 interceptions against MIN on 11/3 and 3 interceptions against PHI on 12/11. Yes, JP needs to take care of the football but there's absolutely no reason to dog him by already labeling him a failure in the NFL. It's too soon. I don't remember the Giant fans throwing Eli under the bus like so many here are willing to do with JP. I still think JP has a big upside and that he's still learning. It didn't help him that he was probably going against two defenses that are Superbowl calibre in the last three weeks. He now needs to hold onto the ball and throw some touchdowns, give him some time. 817775[/snapback] No one should label him a failure -- even though he is failing presently, right before all of our eyes? Also, what are your bases for thinking Losman has "big upside"? Because he was a winner in college? Nope. Because he has the right attitude? Nope. I will give you this -- At least Losman isn't skipping 4 to 5 passes a game to his receivers like last year. Wow.
bluv Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 Plus JP went to Tulane and didn't have his big NFL brother and father to handpick where he should end up. That is why JP is being thrown under a bus as he doesn't and never has had the hype coming out of college so media and fans are too critical and impatient and don't give him a fair chance to grow into and earn his status.
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 Stop looking at paper. Eli makes more plays. Like any QB learning, he will have troubles, but when the troubles come with greatness, you can live with them. Losman is playing himself off this team because his mistakes do not come with signs of greatness.
Fixxxer Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 Stop looking at paper. Eli makes more plays. Like any QB learning, he will have troubles, but when the troubles come with greatness, you can live with them. Losman is playing himself off this team because his mistakes do not come with signs of greatness. 817838[/snapback] I have to agree with your post.
zow2 Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 Let's just stop with all the crazy comparisons that are skewed to either make JP look good or bad. This is ridiculous already. We know JP has the "tools" but in order for him to be a successful NFL QB he needs to do the following in these last 9 games: 1) Eliminate the fumbles (blind side hits excused) 2) convert more 3rd downs especially in crunch time 3) play smart and raise his level of play in the red zone, which in turn will raise the level of play in his teammates. If he continues to be a field goal machine instead of TD's he will not be around long. The Bills have enough skill on offense to be scoring much more than they are.
BUFFALOTONE Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 Can we stop the comparisons please. JP has done nothing yet. Until he does compare him to no one of winning caliber.
bluv Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 Eli makes more plays. 817838[/snapback] That's because he has more playmakers on his team. How many times have you seen Eli just throw the ball up to a 6-4 Plaxico and let him go get it? How about having the best RB in the game the past 3 seasons. Hell they now even got the best short yardage RB in the league now that Bettis has retired in their backup.
1billsfan Posted October 26, 2006 Author Posted October 26, 2006 Stop looking at paper. Eli makes more plays. Like any QB learning, he will have troubles, but when the troubles come with greatness, you can live with them. Losman is playing himself off this team because his mistakes do not come with signs of greatness. 817838[/snapback] That's a funny response considering your name is TheTruthHurts. Want the real truth? Truth is that Losman doesn't have the quality offensive line, all-pro runningback, tight end and defense that Eli had last season. I also disagree with your premise. I've his arm strength as being a sign of greatness. I've seen his running ability as being a sign of greatness. You're looking for name recognition when what you really need to be looking for is improved performance over a substantial period of time. We're not at that point no matter how much you want to jump the gun and label him a no good SOB.
Bflojohn Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 This is getting dizzying in it's never ending tit for tat comparisons and definitions. First off, quit comparing apples to oranges people! Different teams and TOTALLY differing results! Define the criteria of whether or NOT Jonathan Paul Losman is or subsequently isn't making "it" as an NFL signal-caller. My personal criteria is rooted in the belief that until J.P. can be seen setting up in a secure pocket (better O-line) with a bonified #2 reciever and a pass catching TE, say ala a Heath Miller type, then all the bets are off! Talent is my critical measure for making a judgement on player A, B, or C and it is my belief that this staff of Marv Levy and Dick Jauron etal, are COMPLETELY aware of the NEED to surround this guy with MORE TALENT! The suffling of the O-line is "window dressing" for the next act of free agency and the 2007 draft, IMO.
zow2 Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 I don't know guys....some of you are making this too complicated. The Giants D got lit up pretty good so far by Indy, Philly & Seattle. They aren't THAT great. The fact of the matter, for me is if Eli were on the Bills this year, we would have more than 2 wins and 100 points so far. If JP were leading the Giants, i doubt they would be 4-2 with 163 points. (for all you that nitpick everything, i will deduct 6 starts of experience for Eli and add 6 starts for JP to even it up!)
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 That's a funny response considering your name is TheTruthHurts. Want the real truth? Truth is that Losman doesn't have the quality offensive line, all-pro runningback, tight end and defense that Eli had last season. I also disagree with your premise. I've his arm strength as being a sign of greatness. I've seen his running ability as being a sign of greatness. You're looking for name recognition when what you really need to be looking for is improved performance over a substantial period of time. We're not at that point no matter how much you want to jump the gun and label him a no good SOB. 817867[/snapback] Ability is NOT a sign of greatness. I watched Eli Manning throw a pass off his backfoot , DL all over him, with no time left on the clock to win a game last year. That is a sign of greatness. Talent around the QB is a Great argument if we had a chance to see Losman on the Giants, but we cant so it's irrelevant. People gave the same argument for Bledsoe. Now he even has TO, but still, his play, news clippings and fans in Dallas look identical to when he was in Buffalo. The biggest thing a QB needs is confidence in what he is doing, if you dont have that it doesnt matter who is around you. Losman is not playing with confidence.
daquixers_is_back Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 Before you continue reading please understand that I DO LIKE JP! BUT ... When you watch a Bills game and then watch a Giants game, you will just see something different in ELI than you do in JP. When I watch Eli play its like even though he makes a bad throw you know he is a good QB. You have confidence in him to bounce back. He has that confidence in the pocket and has progressed RAPIDLY. He stays back in the pocket and GETS IT DONE. Period. His stats show this well. You cant argue 13 TD's, and 8 INT's for a 90+ QB rating. His line isnt the best either. They are good run blockers, but often break down when trying to stop the pass rush. Through 6 games Eli is on pace to have about 35 sacks this year. To put that into perspective, Drew Bledsoe through 6 games was on pace to have about 43. Eli also seems to throw the ball away instead of getting sacked. Something JP hasnt mastered yet. People will then begin to say that Losman has only started 15 games ... that means he shouldnt be on Eli's level yet. Well ... through 15 games Eli has 20 TD's, and 14 interceptions. JP? He has 12 Touchdowns and 14 interceptions. As much as I WANT to be a JP homer ... I just cant. Eli is the better QB.
ganesh Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 As much as I WANT to be a JP homer ... I just cant. Eli is the better QB. 817904[/snapback] May be Eli is the better QB than Losman at this point. However, Losman is not that far off from the point where Eli is. If we had won the Detroit and Jets game and the Bills were 4-3 instead of 2-5, all the JP bashers will say that he is managing the game good....The fact is that we have 2 wins makes everyone point the finger at JP for all the ills with the Buffalo Bills....without trying to analyze where else this team is screwing up.....May be some one should mention that the Bills sare #3 in total penalties up to 7 games...that shows a undisciplined team. The Bills are #1 in pre-snap penalties (false start, encroachment, delay of game)...When you have those penalties, you are either starting 1-15 or giving the other teams offense a 1-5 to work with.....
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 May be Eli is the better QB than Losman at this point. However, Losman is not that far off from the point where Eli is. If we had won the Detroit and Jets gameand the Bills were 4-3 instead of 2-5, all the JP bashers will say that he is managing the game good....The fact is that we have 2 wins makes everyone point the finger at JP for all the ills with the Buffalo Bills....without trying to analyze where else this team is screwing up.....May be some one should mention that the Bills sare #3 in total penalties up to 7 games...that shows a undisciplined team. The Bills are #1 in pre-snap penalties (false start, encroachment, delay of game)...When you have those penalties, you are either starting 1-15 or giving the other teams offense a 1-5 to work with..... 817913[/snapback] Correct. Had JP Losman drove the team down for score in the Jets gams or had he had a drive late in the Lions game to win or tie, we would not have the talks about getting rid of Losman until next year. This is what we are waiting for. We are waiting for him to show signs of becomming a franchise QB.
Prince Far I Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 Trust your eyes, stats can be twisted in a million ways. Does he look like he's a good Quarterback? Does he show any of the required skills? I saw a few of Manning's early games. He's stas were brutal, but he had presence and strength.
MDH Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 By handing it off to Tiki Barber. 817802[/snapback] And having stout D too.
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