Terry Bradshaw's first five years

[Alaska Darin]

It might not be wise to compare Bradshaw to any qb in any era, let alone JP, who is protected by garbage and surrounded by players who are marginal.

 

Probably only a few here remember this (chime in AD, please  ), but Pitt fans initially hated Bradshaw, and local papers took polls on whether or not he should be benched. The knock on him was that he was "dumb."

His competition was journeyman Terry Hanratty, and a player named Joe Gilliam, who believe it or not, had more talent than Bradshaw.

Joe Gilliam was African-American; a problem in those days. Shameful but true. He had a great arm and mobility. Seriously, picture JP x 2, and that was the talent level of this kid. As I recall, his problem was drugs, and his career was sadly uneventful.

Bradshaw played at Louisiana Tech and then was drafted by perhaps the most conservative coach of the era. There were times when Noll made Chuck Knox look like Don Coryell.

 

And you're correct about the fans being on Bradshaw for being dumb. They were unmerciful, even insulting him when he was doing things like getting gas. It's a good thing for them he was as tough as he was. Thomas Henderson said "Bradshaw's so dumb he couldn't spell cat if you spotted him the 'C' and the 't'," right before the Steelers beat the Cowboys in the second Super Bowl between the two.

 

The rules back then didn't favor passing - it was only towards the end of his career that it loosened up. Because both Harris and Bleier were aging, the Steelers had little choice but to open it up some and Bradshaw showed how far he had progressed.

 

Personally, I think he had the strongest arm I ever saw. He could really wing that thing. Unfortunately he screwed up his elbow toward the end of his career and that started the fued he had with Noll that lasted about 20 years.

 

Bradshaw played on perhaps the greatest team ever. They had literal stars on almost every defensive position, and were almost impossible to score on. Their DTs were Joe Greene (yes R.Rich, the best ever  ) and "Arrowhead" Holmes. Running against them was impossible, and LC Greenwood and Dwight White provided outside pass rush. Their LBs were in the top 5 lb units (imo) ever, and the secondary, led by Mel Blount, was as good as it gets. Ya think Bradshaw got good field position?

 

On offense, Bradshaw had every imaginable weapon in terms of wideouts, and Franco Harris at RB. He played behind an OL which was chock full of superstars, and they had Rocky Blier to help block.    They even had 2 very good TEs (Grossman and Cunningham).

 

My point is, it is very hard to compare Bradshaw to any other quarterback, because none of the others ever had this kind of a supporting cast.

What Bradshaw DID prove was that he was a clutch player, and a tough guy with the heart of a lion. Does JP have all of this? I have no idea.

 

Put a young Terry Bradshaw on the Bills in 06, and he wouldn't last the season. He had a tendency to run head on into linebackers, or anybody else.

The NFL has changed, but the basics remain the same. Unless these OL changes work, expecting JP to avoid injury this season is rather naive. The sad truth is that the people who want him benched need only to remain patient.

816685[/snapback]

I agree with you that Bradshaw probably played on the best team ever. He also played against arguably the second best team ever (Staubach/Landry's Cowboys) and generally played pretty damn well against them, because Noll knew his team couldn't win without throwing the ball against such a strong opponent.

 

The biggest difference in era's is how big and strong Bradshaw was compared to other QBs. Today he'd be pretty average, but he was Jim Kelly's size and started playing over a decade earlier. He was the prototype for what teams are looking for today.

[JDG]

Which doesn't change the fact that defenses are far more intricate today and QB development takes longer than it did then.

816639[/snapback]

 

And your evidence for this, is?

[JDG]

I don't know whether Losman is going to pan out or not.  I still have hopes he will.  But the talk on the board has made me think about Terry Bradshaw's early career (another strong-armed QB who had a rep for running the ball when he came into the league).  I seemed to remember his stinking up the place in his first few years.  Granted, the times were different then (completion precentages were generally lower overall), but still, look at these numbers.

 

year  games  att    comp  pct.    yds.    ypa    TD    INT                  rushes    yds    ypc    TD 

 

1970  13  218  83  38.1  1,410  6.5  6  24      32  233  7.3  1

1971  14  373  203  54.4  2,259  6.1  13  22    53  247  4.7  5

1972  14  308  147  47.7  1,887  6.1  12  12    58  346  6.0  7

1973  10  180  89  49.4  1,183  6.6  10  15    34  145  4.3  3

1974  8  148  67  45.3  785  5.3  7  8    34  224  6.6  2

1975  14  286  165  57.7  2,055  7.2  18  9    35  210  6.0  3

In the first five years he completed more than half of his passes only once.  It wasn't until his sixth year that he had more TD's than Interceptions. Can you imagine what this board would be like if Losman, over his first 13 games, had a 38% completion percentage with 6 TD's to 24 interceptions? 

 

It wasn't until 1975 that he had a "good" season, and that was not coincidentally the first year the Steelers went to the Super Bowl.  They made it on running and defense.

 

I don't want to draw too many conclusions from this, but thought you might like to consider it.

816436[/snapback]

 

Is your point that you have to go back to the 1970's to find a QB who's career started as badly as JP's and yet went on to greatness? ;-)

 

Or more to the point - if JP Losman had produced the above numbers , would you, or anyone else, be sticking within him after the third year? the fourth year? the *fifth*?????

 

I hope its self-evident that that was a completely different era, so I don't know what sort of point you are trying to make about JP Losman through this comparison at all....

 

JDG

[Dibs]

.......Bradshaw played on perhaps the greatest team ever. They had literal stars on almost every defensive position, and were almost impossible to score on. Their DTs were Joe Greene (yes R.Rich, the best ever  ) and "Arrowhead" Holmes. Running against them was impossible, and LC Greenwood and Dwight White provided outside pass rush. Their LBs were in the top 5 lb units (imo) ever, and the secondary, led by Mel Blount, was as good as it gets. Ya think Bradshaw got good field position?

 

On offense, Bradshaw had every imaginable weapon in terms of wideouts, and Franco Harris at RB. He played behind an OL which was chock full of superstars, and they had Rocky Blier to help block.    They even had 2 very good TEs (Grossman and Cunningham).

 

My point is, it is very hard to compare Bradshaw to any other quarterback, because none of the others ever had this kind of a supporting cast......

816685[/snapback]

Aikman maybe?

[Dibs]

How many Doctors do we have on this board?

816439[/snapback]

I don't know how many Doctors we have here but we certainly seem to have plenty that know how to doctor statistics to suit an argument.

[Bill from NYC]

Aikman maybe?

818316[/snapback]

 

I see where you are going, but they were different. Bradshaw was far more athletic than Aikman, and MUCH stronger.

A DE named "Turkey" Jones once picked up Bradshaw and literally pile drived him onto the ground. I thought his neck was broken. It was sadistic, worse than anything we have seen in years. Aikman (who was prone to concussions) would have been dead.

[Bill from NYC]

Personally, I think he had the strongest arm I ever saw.

818009[/snapback]

 

Maybe.

 

The thing is (as you of course know) there are different ways to judge arm strength. Pastorini, Cunningham, and a somewhat obscure qb from Grambling named James Harris were the guys I thought could throw it the farthest in terms of pure distance (Harris gets the nod imo). Bradshaw was like that, and he could go deep with all the air he wanted under the ball.

 

Marino, Bert Jones, Farve, Elway, and (sorry ) a young Bledsoe could throw the deepest square-outs. I saw Drew, with his front foot slanted to the left, throw a 40 yard square-out to the right, and the ball actually had air under it. As a matter of fact, I saw Marino do this at RWS. Passes like this are all but impossible.

I am too young to have seen much of Unitas, be it is said that he too could make these throws.

 

JP is said to have a "cannon." Although I think that he has fantastic arm strength, it is different. Like the 3 guys I mentioned in the first paragraph, he needs to step into his passes a bit more than the ones in the paragraph above. He has a great 30 yard "fastball," but he could use more touch (spin) on it ala Staubach/Namath to make these throws easier to catch.

 

I hope JP gets a chance to fully develop and put his skills to use before he is slaughtered.

[MDH]

It proves that this may not matter that much.

The Pats' line was worse than the Bills' Sunday.  Good QB's (and, yes, Brady is the best), live with that.  I think he could live behind this line for quitte a while.

816726[/snapback]

 

Alrighty then, so all we have to do to win with this OL is to go out and get a HoF type QB. No problem!

[Dibs]

I see where you are going, but they were different. Bradshaw was far more athletic than Aikman, and MUCH stronger.

A DE named "Turkey" Jones once picked up Bradshaw and literally pile drived him onto the ground. I thought his neck was broken. It was sadistic, worse than anything we have seen in years. Aikman (who was prone to concussions) would have been dead.

818339[/snapback]

I know what you mean. I simply meant that Aikman had one of the best supporting casts on both O & D that I have seen......how does it compare to the great PIT team of Bradshaw?(I was not exactly around to see it.)

[stuckincincy]

I know what you mean.  I simply meant that Aikman had one of the best supporting casts on both O & D that I have seen......how does it compare to the great PIT team of Bradshaw?(I was not exactly around to see it.)

818386[/snapback]

 

The PIT clubs that encompassed their 1st 4 Super Bowls were strong everywhere, save merely decent TE's and kicking.

 

The team's Pro Bowl numbers during that span:

 

1974 - 5 players

1975 - 11

1976 - 9

1977 - 4

1978 - 10

1979 - 11.

 

 

The Cowboys of Aikman and Staubach were fine clubs. Stabler's Raiders, Greise's Dolphins, some of Joe Gibb's 'Skins teams, and certainly others.

 

But I've never seen any other team as all-around powerful as those Steelers clubs over those six seasons.

[Dibs]

The PIT clubs that encompassed their 1st 4 Super Bowls were strong everywhere, save merely decent TE's and kicking.

 

The team's Pro Bowl numbers during that span:

 

1974 - 5 players

1975 - 11

1976 - 9

1977 - 4

1978 - 10

1979 - 11.

The Cowboys of Aikman and Staubach were fine clubs. Stabler's Raiders, Greise's Dolphins, some of Joe Gibb's 'Skins teams, and certainly others.

 

But I've never seen any other team as all-around powerful as those Steelers clubs over those six seasons.

818464[/snapback]

I'm certainly not arguing here.....I just think the Probowl numbers are interesting. It's astounding to think that half your starters could be probowl caliber at any given time.

DAL.....

1991 - 4 players

1992 - 6

1993 - 11

1994 - 11

1995 - 10

1996 - 9

 

MIA.....

1970 - 3 players

1971 - 7

1972 - 9

1973 - 11

1974 - 10

[Bill from NYC]

I know what you mean.  I simply meant that Aikman had one of the best supporting casts on both O & D that I have seen......how does it compare to the great PIT team of Bradshaw?(I was not exactly around to see it.)

818386[/snapback]

 

Both teams were great, but Pitt was better imo. Pitt had a clearly superior defense imo.

I do give an edge to Dallas at RB, and perhaps a small one at OL and TE.