IDBillzFan Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Brings us back to the question, what is the definition of a bust?You're kidding, right? We're going to split hairs over what constitutes a bust? Then maybe you'll at least agree that one rule of being considered a bust is that you are no longer in the game, whether by your own decision or all the other teams. Because as long as you're in, you still at least have the opportunity to produce. And as long as that opportunity presents itself, then you can never definitively call someone a bust without it being an assumption, no? Or am I not splitting the hairs enough for you? Given his history of injuries, his inability to break into the starting lineup with Washington even when he was healthy and his talk of possible retirement if he ever suffered another knee injury, was giving him a big contract a good idea?816640[/snapback] Since we're splitting hairs, I guess that depends on the contract, doesn't it? Is there a clause in the contract that says if he gets hurt and decides to retire, he doesn't get any money? And given how the Poston boys reportedly screwed up his contract with Washington, can we agree there is a chance his contract with the Giants includes some self-serving escape clauses or other such line items that were overlooked by Arrington...again? If so, then was it really such a leap of faith for the Giants? Again, anyone can make their own assumption and call it truth. But in reality, it just doesn't work that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 You're kidding, right? We're going to split hairs over what constitutes a bust? Then maybe you'll at least agree that one rule of being considered a bust is that you are no longer in the game, whether by your own decision or all the other teams. Because as long as you're in, you still at least have the opportunity to produce. And as long as that opportunity presents itself, then you can never definitively call someone a bust without it being an assumption, no? Or am I not splitting the hairs enough for you? Since we're splitting hairs, I guess that depends on the contract, doesn't it? Is there a clause in the contract that says if he gets hurt and decides to retire, he doesn't get any money? And given how the Poston boys reportedly screwed up his contract with Washington, can we agree there is a chance his contract with the Giants includes some self-serving escape clauses or other such line items that were overlooked by Arrington...again? If so, then was it really such a leap of faith for the Giants? Again, anyone can make their own assumption and call it truth. But in reality, it just doesn't work that way. 816657[/snapback] LA, your work and patience with the mentally handicapped posters in this thread makes you a saint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 You're kidding, right? We're going to split hairs over what constitutes a bust? Then maybe you'll at least agree that one rule of being considered a bust is that you are no longer in the game, whether by your own decision or all the other teams. Because as long as you're in, you still at least have the opportunity to produce. And as long as that opportunity presents itself, then you can never definitively call someone a bust without it being an assumption, no? Or am I not splitting the hairs enough for you? 816657[/snapback] So now we can not form opinions on how good a player is based on their college careers, the pro careers with teams other than the Bills or their lack of any play for the Bills in any meaningful game. We must wait until they are no longer playing football? Since we're splitting hairs, I guess that depends on the contract, doesn't it? Is there a clause in the contract that says if he gets hurt and decides to retire, he doesn't get any money? And given how the Poston boys reportedly screwed up his contract with Washington, can we agree there is a chance his contract with the Giants includes some self-serving escape clauses or other such line items that were overlooked by Arrington...again? If so, then was it really such a leap of faith for the Giants? Again, anyone can make their own assumption and call it truth. But in reality, it just doesn't work that way. How did the Poston boys screw up his contract with Washington? Why did that prevent him from performing on the field for Washington when he was healthy? Coming back to reality, how is he doing for the Giants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 So now we can not form opinions on how good a player is based on their college careers, the pro careers with teams other than the Bills or their lack of any play for the Bills in any meaningful game. We must wait until they are no longer playing football?Opinions are fine. But definitively calling someone a bust as long as the person is still playing is not sound reasoning because the opportunity is still there for him to prove you wrong. How did the Poston boys screw up his contract with Washington? Why did that prevent him from performing on the field for Washington when he was healthy? He cost Arrington $6.5 million because he agreed to it orally but never bothered to read the final contract. You don't think that affects how a player performs on the field? "Oops. Sorry about that little $6.5M mistake, Levar. Now off to work for you." Coming back to reality, how is he doing for the Giants?816666[/snapback] Gee, the Giants are in first place in their division and are 3-0 in their division. Sounds like he's done pretty well for them at this point. But you approached his worth based on whether he was worth the contract he got, to which, again, I will respond: you have no idea what clauses are in his contract. It all depends on what he is getting paid for the year. I hate splitting hairs, but you're taking us down that path. I must work now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Opinions are fine. But definitively calling someone a bust as long as the person is still playing is not sound reasoning because the opportunity is still there for him to prove you wrong. 816689[/snapback] So who did that? You were the first person to use the word "bust" in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 So by your logic, Jonas Jennings would not be considered a "bust" for San Francisco. Opinions are fine. But definitively calling someone a bust as long as the person is still playing is not 816689[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syhuang Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 So by your logic, Takeo Spikes would be considered a "bust" since he was injured last season. So by your logic, Jonas Jennings would not be considered a "bust" for San Francisco. 816853[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 So by your logic, Takeo Spikes would be considered a "bust" since he was injured last season. 816966[/snapback] Where did Dawgg express anything like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syhuang Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Where did Dawgg express anything like that? 817014[/snapback] By bringing up Johas Jennings (and implying his injury history) to attack LABillzFan's statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 By bringing up Johas Jennings (and implying his injury history). 817015[/snapback] Isn't there a big difference between Jenning injury history, both before and after he signed with the 49ers, and Spikes's history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syhuang Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Isn't there a big difference between Jenning injury history, both before and after he signed with the 49ers, and Spikes's history? 817028[/snapback] What big difference? Check how many games Jennings missed before and after he signed with 49ers and come again. Jennings played at least 11 games per season in Bills uniform (14 games in his last year) and only played 3 games last season for 49ers. In the mean time, try to relate bust to number of games missed due to injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 You are clearly not very bright if you are comparing the two. Jennings, in his 2 years with the 49ers has played a very limited role. Spikes, in his 3 or 4 seasons with the Bills, already paid dividends before his injury. What big difference? Check how many games Jennings missed before and after he signed with 49ers and come again. Jennings played at least 11 games per season in Bills uniform (14 games in his last year) and only played 3 games last season for 49ers. In the mean time, try to relate bust to number of games missed due to injury. 817043[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syhuang Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 You clearly have difficulty to comprehend. Is it so hard to notice "since he was injured last season."? So by your standard, if a player got injured first and then played many games, he is a bust. But if a player played many games and then got injured, he is not. And don't play dumb and ask me how I can be so sure that Bowen or Jennings will play many games later. I don't need to be, because I never label them as busts. For the people who already label them busts, just explain that Bowen and Jennings definitely won't play many games in the future. You are clearly not very bright if you are comparing the two. Jennings, in his 2 years with the 49ers has played a very limited role. Spikes, in his 3 or 4 seasons with the Bills, already paid dividends before his injury. 817104[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Pollyanna 101: A Bills' player can't be a bust until he finally leaves the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Pollyanna 101: A Bills' player can't be a bust until he finally leaves the team. 817119[/snapback] pretty much, unless his name is Wire, Reed, Bledsoe, Gandy, any TE, Anderson, R Brown, Kelsay, Bowen, Clements, Mcgahee, Mcgee, etc....etc...etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 pretty much, unless his name is Wire, Reed, Bledsoe, Gandy, any TE, Anderson, R Brown, Kelsay, Bowen, Clements, Mcgahee, Mcgee, etc....etc...etc... 817123[/snapback] Don't say that around any Pollyannas, they don't cope with criticism very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Don't say that around any Pollyannas, they don't cope with criticism very well. 817124[/snapback] Oh trust me I know. It's okay to bash a player as long as it not one of their favorites or someone they have bought a shirt of. hell they defend a guy to the death if they have spent 80 bucks on a jersey. Hell there are folks that are still upset we got rid of Lonnie friggen Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Oh trust me I know. It's okay to bash a player as long as it not one of their favorites or someone they have bought a shirt of. hell they defend a guy to the death if they have spent 80 bucks on a jersey. Hell there are folks that are still upset we got rid of Lonnie friggen Johnson. 817130[/snapback] on the flip side, its good to know some of you think everyone who put on a bills jersey and didnt make the pro bowl every single season of their career sucks and wont amount to anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 on the flip side, its good to know some of you think everyone who put on a bills jersey and didnt make the pro bowl every single season of their career sucks and wont amount to anything. 817133[/snapback] Of course by the same token, it's quite possible that a player who has say 3 or 4 years to prove himself, yet continues to make worse then rookie mistakes may actually suck, although others still won't admit it because the danirator stat polls say he is in the top 50 players at the position in the NFl and therefore we just have to give him one more year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Oh trust me I know. It's okay to bash a player as long as it not one of their favorites or someone they have bought a shirt of. hell they defend a guy to the death if they have spent 80 bucks on a jersey. Hell there are folks that are still upset we got rid of Lonnie friggen Johnson. 817130[/snapback] Yeah, but then there are the hardcore Pollyannas...the one's who won't bash any Bill until they finally leave the team. For instance, those who kept waiting & waiting & waiting for MW to come around, then LTAO on an MW-Tampa Bay thread. They are the salt of the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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