coltrane34 Posted October 24, 2006 Author Posted October 24, 2006 Sorry, but can't agree. The difference in this game was Brady,plain and simple as much as I can't stand the guy. We had more heat on him all day than NE had on JP, and when he needed to TB just calmly stepped around in the pocket and made key throws. Heck he even missed one or two or the score may have bben worse. What did JP produce? A whopping two FG's , a couple of fumbles and a horrible INT. He just doesn't show the awareness and certainly not the almost uncanny ability to sense what's going on around him that TB has and has shown since day one. This is the "it" factor. And face it, we haven't had a guy with "it" around here in many years. Very few teams have "great" OL's in this league any more-you simply cannot keep them all around with the cap being what it is. This makes a QB with "it" more important than ever. I HATE the Pats, but check out their OL. They've lost how many starters since their first SB? Yet they just plug in another guy and move on. Amazing how we can't seem to find a single OL that can play. It's got more than a little something to do with the QB, and we have no one there right now to have any chance at a playoff type season. And won't until that changes. 815414[/snapback] Tom Brady is a Hall of Fame QB who has worked wonders w/ the pats. But he was put in the perfect situation at the perfect time. You can't compare him w/ JP. JP hasnt had a great and consistant coaching staff, defense, and other guys who have been able to somehow get it done. Give him time or someone else will.
ganesh Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 I didn't blame anyone. Just pointing out facts. 815413[/snapback] Ok...still comparing with Kitna is not apples-to-apples comparision especially taking the last 2 weeks into consideration.... With all that said, I would like JP to improve his play in the next 9 games..... We have to stick with him as the QB for the bills for the long term success of this franchise...For too long, we have given up on our QBs too quickly without building a team around the QB.
VABills Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 Ok...still comparing with Kitna is not apples-to-apples comparision especiallytaking the last 2 weeks into consideration.... With all that said, I would like JP to improve his play in the next 9 games..... We have to stick with him as the QB for the bills for the long term success of this franchise...For too long, we have given up on our QBs too quickly without building a team around the QB. 815428[/snapback] Again any Qb is bad if your throw out their good games. Just the same as any QB is great if you throw out their bad games.
apuszczalowski Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 Kitna is an experienced vet, JP is a 3rd year Pro (second year actually playing), Of course kitna should be better. He should also make a poorer line look better just because he is an experienced QB. JP is still learning and will not make a bad o-line look better. There really is no comparison between the 2.
zow2 Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 Sorry, but can't agree. The difference in this game was Brady,plain and simple as much as I can't stand the guy. We had more heat on him all day than NE had on JP, and when he needed to TB just calmly stepped around in the pocket and made key throws. Heck he even missed one or two or the score may have bben worse. What did JP produce? A whopping two FG's , a couple of fumbles and a horrible INT. He just doesn't show the awareness and certainly not the almost uncanny ability to sense what's going on around him that TB has and has shown since day one. This is the "it" factor. And face it, we haven't had a guy with "it" around here in many years. Very few teams have "great" OL's in this league any more-you simply cannot keep them all around with the cap being what it is. This makes a QB with "it" more important than ever. I HATE the Pats, but check out their OL. They've lost how many starters since their first SB? Yet they just plug in another guy and move on. Amazing how we can't seem to find a single OL that can play. It's got more than a little something to do with the QB, and we have no one there right now to have any chance at a playoff type season. And won't until that changes. 815414[/snapback] I agree. The fact is it's very difficult to figure out how much is bad O-line play and how much is bad QB'ing? It's a very subtle thing. Brady did face more pressure on Sunday than JP...and as expected, he handled it better and made the most of his opportunities. He also hung on to the ball when drilled. Did Seattle's O-line suddenly become garbage when Hasselbeck got hurt on Sunday? No. Seneca Wallace is just not very good yet or experienced and his INT's, fumbles, sacks & decision making hurt his team. As stated many times here....the Bills O-line is below average but they have given JP time on many occassions when things went nowhere. Right now, for me, there are some flashes of great athleticism and arm strength but he is playing at the level of a low rated backup QB. I'd take a journeyman like Damon Huard in a heartbeat over what we've seen in JP. I still root for him to get better but he has to show improvement these last 9 games and raise the level of play around him.
Tod Flanders Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 Throw up any stat you like, people who actually know a thing or two about the NFL understand that JP is not our problem. He is protected by a poor o-line, he is throwing to undersized receivers, he has had to run two completely different offensive systems, he has not had good consistent offensive play calling since coming into the league, and he has tried to put the whole city on his shoulders. Not to mention that he seems to be the only one on the team with any heart. Any Qb from Jim Kelly to Brett Farve to Joe Montana would struggle in this situation. Stop reading stats that don't matter. Jp needs to be surrounded by a line that can block, receivers that can get open past four yards, coaches that do not make bad decisions, and fans that cheer. Getting a QB in the draft and giving up on Jp who will be a great QB is the dumbest thing the Bills could do. It would set the franchise back at least three to four years. It would also not allow for the Bills to draft some great lineman on both sides of the ball, pretty much putting them back in the situation they are in now. A situation where they have an unproven guy running for his life behind center, and a team that doesn’t seem to care. 815259[/snapback] Right now JP is looking more and more like the son of Rob Johnson. I hope that he improves and I want us to stick with him the rest of the season but it's starting to look bad that fumble "caused by the ref" is inexcusable, did the ref really deliver a bone jarring hit? No he just brushed into the ref and out comes the ball. I don't fault his first fumble, being hit from behind with his arm beign swatted but it's time for him to figure out how to secure the ball. I realize he is improving but he definitely has regressed and makes the same mistakes over and over again. We'll find out where we are by the end of the season, hopefully JP takes some steps forward but I have gone from feeling optimistic to pessimistic about his viability as an NFL QB. Pleased JP, prove me wrong.
ganesh Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 Again any Qb is bad if your throw out their good games. Just the same as any QB is great if you throw out their bad games. 815459[/snapback] Nope..that is not what I was saying....All I said was in the last three weeks, the bills got to play two of the best teams in the league and a 3rd that was desparate for a win....IN the same period of time, Kitna and Co played two of the WORST defense in the league in the Jets and Billsand got some extra stats. I said these two are not equal comparisons...I wasn't necessarily trying to throw the good and /or bad games for either QB.
Fixxxer Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 Before the game against the Bears, Losman was playing with confidence and in every game he's taking what was given to him. The last three games I see a guy forcing the ball to Lee Evans too much, ending up in negative plays. The pass to Evans against the Bears or the pass to Davis against NE are passes he should complete with his eyes closed. I see other young QBs in the league taking advantage of those passes for big gains. And that is the big difference between them and Losman, and those are the plays that inspire an entire football team. We have yet to see a performance from him that elevates the play of his teammates. I'm still hopefull he can do it and it's a good thing that the coaching staff feel the same way.
RkFast Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 Im going to go root for the Patriots. They NEVER make mistakes. They are all just PERFECT. And dreamy.
Wraith Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 Before the game against the Bears, Losman was playing with confidence and in every game he's taking what was given to him. The last three games I see a guy forcing the ball to Lee Evans too much, ending up in negative plays. The pass to Evans against the Bears or the pass to Davis against NE are passes he should complete with his eyes closed. I see other young QBs in the league taking advantage of those passes for big gains. And that is the big difference between them and Losman, and those are the plays that inspire an entire football team. We have yet to see a performance from him that elevates the play of his teammates. I'm still hopefull he can do it and it's a good thing that the coaching staff feel the same way. 815786[/snapback] Tom Brady overthrew wide open receivers deep twice in the first quarter against the Bills. You can't say any QB should make that throw with their eyes closed, and you can't point to two throws in 7 games as a case for anything.
syhuang Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 ALERT....ALERT....SKY IS FALLING...... Some one who only trusted observations and was so afraid of stats is actually showing stats. His next step is to learn to distinguish a offensive lineman and a rushing direction. ALERT....ALERT....SKY IS FALLING...... Just to keep the facts straight, he has a 78.9 rating now. Also, there are 20 other Qb's ahead of him. http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/PRAT/2006/regular 815405[/snapback]
VABills Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 ALERT....ALERT....SKY IS FALLING...... Some one who only trusted observations and was so afraid of stats is actually showing stats. His next step is to learn to distinguish a offensive lineman and a rushing direction. ALERT....ALERT....SKY IS FALLING...... 815872[/snapback] Nope if you read what it was in response to I was just replying. I don't care about stats. Way to take a message out of context idiot.
syhuang Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 Nope if you read what it was in response to I was just replying. I don't care about stats. Way to take a message out of context idiot. 815889[/snapback] Right, you didn't show any stats. QB ratings are calculated by your observations. ALERT....ALERT....SKY IS FALLING...... ALERT....ALERT....SKY IS FALLING......
Rico Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 Sorry, but can't agree. The difference in this game was Brady,plain and simple as much as I can't stand the guy. The real difference in the game was Kelsay. If he would've killed Brady on that endaround play, maybe the Bills win.
NavyBillsFan Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 I found out that tidybowl does not last for 1000 flushes. Im really pissed now.
Orton's Arm Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 Tell us? Did you recycle this quote from a Rob Johnson, Drew Bledsoe, Doug Flutie, or Todd Collins thread from years ago? 815389[/snapback] An excellent post. Yes, the Bills have problems on offense that go beyond the QB. But a good QB can still make a difference. Last night, the Cowboys' line couldn't block anyone. Yet their offense came to life when Romo was inserted instead of Drew. If you take away Romo's three boneheaded interceptions, it would have been a magnificent performance. Even when the supporting cast plays poorly, you can still tell the difference between good and bad QB play.
Ramius Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 If you take away Romo's three boneheaded interceptions, it would have been a magnificent performance. Even when the supporting cast plays poorly, you can still tell the difference between good and bad QB play. 816033[/snapback] And if my aunt had nuts she'd be my uncle. Unless her IQ was lower than your benchmark, then she'd be euthanizied.
JAMIEBUF12 Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 Throw up any stat you like, people who actually know a thing or two about the NFL understand that JP is not our problem. He is protected by a poor o-line, he is throwing to undersized receivers, he has had to run two completely different offensive systems, he has not had good consistent offensive play calling since coming into the league, and he has tried to put the whole city on his shoulders. Not to mention that he seems to be the only one on the team with any heart. Any Qb from Jim Kelly to Brett Farve to Joe Montana would struggle in this situation. Stop reading stats that don't matter. Jp needs to be surrounded by a line that can block, receivers that can get open past four yards, coaches that do not make bad decisions, and fans that cheer. Getting a QB in the draft and giving up on Jp who will be a great QB is the dumbest thing the Bills could do. It would set the franchise back at least three to four years. It would also not allow for the Bills to draft some great lineman on both sides of the ball, pretty much putting them back in the situation they are in now. A situation where they have an unproven guy running for his life behind center, and a team that doesn’t seem to care. 815259[/snapback] thankyou
Dibs Posted October 25, 2006 Posted October 25, 2006 An excellent post. Yes, the Bills have problems on offense that go beyond the QB. But a good QB can still make a difference. Last night, the Cowboys' line couldn't block anyone. Yet their offense came to life when Romo was inserted instead of Drew. If you take away Romo's three boneheaded interceptions, it would have been a magnificent performance. Even when the supporting cast plays poorly, you can still tell the difference between good and bad QB play. 816033[/snapback] I'll just add a qualification if I may..... It seems to me that before opposing defences have seen a new QB....for a game or three.....said QB can(& often does) perform at a level that is perhaps higher than their currant skill level. I'm not saying Romo will be a bust...or a star....but considering it was his first action, he performed like so many before him. Let's see what he does in 1,2,3 weeks time.
Prince Far I Posted October 25, 2006 Posted October 25, 2006 I just hate it when every player we have here who plays suspect or not the best every week some make them out to be horrible;suck; shouldn't even be on the team. Every player who has a bad stretch or off year is not terrible. Some make it seem like every team has a Pro Bowler at every position. 815387[/snapback] So true, but that's the nature of being a fan. This team has abused our patience for a long time now. We have all seen what it takes to build a winner. We have all enjoyed the good years and are suffering through a miserable stretch with little real imporvement in sight. We have the right to call it like we see it. Rebuilding year or not, this team is bad. Some hope at a few positions, but they have been playing lifeless, undisciplined and lousy football. Why sugar coat it? These are professional athletes playing for a team we love. They are not our children. We don't have to encourage 30 year old offensive linemen.
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