coltrane34 Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 Throw up any stat you like, people who actually know a thing or two about the NFL understand that JP is not our problem. He is protected by a poor o-line, he is throwing to undersized receivers, he has had to run two completely different offensive systems, he has not had good consistent offensive play calling since coming into the league, and he has tried to put the whole city on his shoulders. Not to mention that he seems to be the only one on the team with any heart. Any Qb from Jim Kelly to Brett Farve to Joe Montana would struggle in this situation. Stop reading stats that don't matter. Jp needs to be surrounded by a line that can block, receivers that can get open past four yards, coaches that do not make bad decisions, and fans that cheer. Getting a QB in the draft and giving up on Jp who will be a great QB is the dumbest thing the Bills could do. It would set the franchise back at least three to four years. It would also not allow for the Bills to draft some great lineman on both sides of the ball, pretty much putting them back in the situation they are in now. A situation where they have an unproven guy running for his life behind center, and a team that doesn’t seem to care.
BillsFanForever19 Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 I would love for him to prove everyone wrong and show that he's the guy. But right now, it just isn't happening. It's so easy to say that there is no offensive line. But a good QB makes an average offensive line look better. I've seen MANY times when the line has given Losman ample time and he still can't get it done. The guy is throwing bad passes, making bad reads, and showing zero football instincts. Not to mention, he turns the ball over practically everytime he's hit. He just isn't a difference maker. That's where my problems with him lie. Believe me, there's nothing i'd rather see than for us to actually win some games. But you can't attack fans who are fed up at this point. Most of us are.
Bungee Jumper Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 I've been bashing JP since he was drafted. Should I retroactively cheer for another team?
apuszczalowski Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 It's so easy to say that there is no offensive line. But a good QB makes an average offensive line look better. I've seen MANY times when the line has given Losman ample time and he still can't get it done. The guy is throwing bad passes, making bad reads, and showing zero football instincts. Not to mention, he turns the ball over practically everytime he's hit. He just isn't a difference maker. That's where my problems with him lie. Believe me, there's nothing i'd rather see than for us to actually win some games. But you can't attack fans who are fed up at this point. Most of us are. 815337[/snapback] That is not true, a good veteran QB can make an average o-line look better. A young developing QB cannot learn and become a good QB with a bad o-line. Having a below average line (which Buffalo does have), is not going to help any QB develop. Now I'm not saying JP is the answer or isn't, its just that until the conditions around him improve, its going to be even harder for him to prove he has what it takes, and it will be the same for any rookie brought in. Well except for Quinn or Leinart because they are HOF's before their careers even started. Bills fans always have to have something to complain about. They could go undefeated and they will still be crying cause player X didn't get a certain amount of yards, or player Y ran out of bounds instead of leveling a DB, or they didn't win by enough points. Its all part of being the best fans in the league
Wraith Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 I would love for him to prove everyone wrong and show that he's the guy. But right now, it just isn't happening. It's so easy to say that there is no offensive line. But a good QB makes an average offensive line look better. I've seen MANY times when the line has given Losman ample time and he still can't get it done. The guy is throwing bad passes, making bad reads, and showing zero football instincts. Not to mention, he turns the ball over practically everytime he's hit. He just isn't a difference maker. That's where my problems with him lie. Believe me, there's nothing i'd rather see than for us to actually win some games. But you can't attack fans who are fed up at this point. Most of us are. 815337[/snapback] Your premise might be right but your argument is flawed. When Losman has gotten his throws off his performance has been above average. He has a 61.6% Completion Percentage, 1314 Yards, 6 TDs, and 6 Int (Including 3 against the leagues best defense). He's shown that when he has protection, he can be effective. The problems have all arrived when he doesn't get his throws away. He's getting sacked at a high rate (21 times so far) and fumbling often. Those are his problems, and you have to give at least some of the blame on the offensive line.
Dibs Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 I would love for him to prove everyone wrong and show that he's the guy. But right now, it just isn't happening. It's so easy to say that there is no offensive line. But a good QB makes an average offensive line look better. I've seen MANY times when the line has given Losman ample time and he still can't get it done. The guy is throwing bad passes, making bad reads, and showing zero football instincts. Not to mention, he turns the ball over practically everytime he's hit. He just isn't a difference maker. That's where my problems with him lie. Believe me, there's nothing i'd rather see than for us to actually win some games. But you can't attack fans who are fed up at this point. Most of us are. 815337[/snapback] So does every QB in the league.....who was it this week? Leftwich, McNabb, Gradkowski, Plummer, Leinart, Bledsoe.....or last week? Carr, E.Manning, Vick, Brunell, Huard, Grossman. He needs do the good things far more consistantly but.....I wish people would stop making out that he is the only QB in the league who makes bad descisions. Where is it we expect him to be at this stage????? He was abysmal last year & is markedly improved this year.....still a long way to go but I ask again..... Realistically, what level of development should he be at? We knew he was 'raw' when he was drafted....he missed his rookie year.....he was rubbish last year.....we have a terrible OL.....new system.....mistake prone offence....how EXACTLY should he be playing now?
BuffaloRebound Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 Call me impatient or fair-weathered, but this team simply doesn't score points with Losman at QB. The closest thing to an explosive performance was his 1st quarter performance in Miami last year which was followed up by zero points the rest of the game. He does look better than last year but that is not saying much. Give him the rest of the year, but be fully prepared to go in a different direction next year. This seems somewhat similar to giving Rob Johnson a shot for one year in Gregg Williams 1st year. I guess the difference being that college QB's like Leinart and Cutler weren't available that year in the draft. I see a lot of people saying that there are many other things wrong with the team besides QB. However, instability at the QB position is the hardest thing to overcome in the NFL.
bluv Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 I agree with everything you said for we should have patience with a young QB but at the same time you can't make excuses for all his mistakes either.
bluv Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 I just hate it when every player we have here who plays suspect or not the best every week some make them out to be horrible;suck; shouldn't even be on the team. Every player who has a bad stretch or off year is not terrible. Some make it seem like every team has a Pro Bowler at every position.
RkFast Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 Throw up any stat you like, people who actually know a thing or two about the NFL understand that JP is not our problem. He is protected by a poor o-line, he is throwing to undersized receivers, he has had to run two completely different offensive systems, he has not had good consistent offensive play calling since coming into the league, and he has tried to put the whole city on his shoulders. Not to mention that he seems to be the only one on the team with any heart. Tell us? Did you recycle this quote from a Rob Johnson, Drew Bledsoe, Doug Flutie, or Todd Collins thread from years ago?
ganesh Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 I would love for him to prove everyone wrong and show that he's the guy. But right now, it just isn't happening. It's so easy to say that there is no offensive line. But a good QB makes an average offensive line look better. I've seen MANY times when the line has given Losman ample time and he still can't get it done. The guy is throwing bad passes, making bad reads, and showing zero football instincts. Not to mention, he turns the ball over practically everytime he's hit. He just isn't a difference maker. That's where my problems with him lie. Believe me, there's nothing i'd rather see than for us to actually win some games. But you can't attack fans who are fed up at this point. Most of us are. 815337[/snapback] I think other than the fumbles/ints JP has been doing fine....He should be criticized for fumbling and throwing INTs at inappropriate times like in the redzone. But to say he has zero football instincts is absurd.... Have you ever thought that because the line is SOOOOO BAAAD, may be JP is trying take the game into his own hands in the last few games and making those criticial mistakes....May be the coaches need to rein him in no matter what the situation is.
Wraith Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 Tell us? Did you recycle this quote from a Rob Johnson, Drew Bledsoe, Doug Flutie, or Todd Collins thread from years ago? 815389[/snapback] The fact that you could apply the statement you quote to all of our QBs in the last decade or so (including Jim Kelly) would tend to make a reasonable person say the root cause hasn't been addressed. But not you.
ganesh Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 He needs do the good things far more consistantly but.....I wish people would stop making out that he is the only QB in the league who makes bad descisions. 815354[/snapback] Exactly....people on this board make it out as if 31 other QBs in this league have a 153 QB rating while losman has a pitiful 80 rating....... Your team is only as good as the TEAM plays.....You might get a win here or there when the QB goes gun-slinging and throws for 400 yards...but that is not going to win you championships.
VABills Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 Exactly....people on this board make it out as if 31 other QBs in this league have a 153 QB rating while losman has a pitiful 80 rating....... Your team is only as good as the TEAM plays.....You might get a win here or there when the QB goes gun-slinging and throws for 400 yards...but that is not going to win you championships. 815395[/snapback] Just to keep the facts straight, he has a 78.9 rating now. Also, there are 20 other Qb's ahead of him. http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/PRAT/2006/regular One of which is Kitna who is playing with a bad line, who now has 3 replacements on a bad line, and one of his WR's out.
coltrane34 Posted October 24, 2006 Author Posted October 24, 2006 They have proven that you just can't throw QB's at the problem to fix the team. You must build a solid team around them and put them in situations that utilize their abilities. Develop JP while you build around him, don't waste time, money, and draft picks on some unproven QB. The other players need to be there first. Look at any other great QB, they all had great players around them helping them carry the team.
ganesh Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 Just to keep the facts straight, he has a 78.9 rating now. Also, there are 20 other Qb's ahead of him. http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/PRAT/2006/regular One of which is Kitna who is playing with a bad line, who now has 3 replacements on a bad line, and one of his WR's out. 815405[/snapback] Kitna has a bad line, but has played two bad defenses BACK-To-BACK. The Bills and Jets defense are bottom-feeders right now in the NFL....Kitna has boosted his ratings from these two games....JP played the Chicago defense and Pats defense in the last 3 games....I think they are different beasts... Also, there are 3 new players on the Lions line.....Who knows, may be they are gems that the new regime has unearthed.....Sorry I don't buy into the Kitna-Losman argument....Plus kitna has been in this league for 12 years..... BTW, thanks for the nitpick from 78.9 to 80 QB rating....big difference.... MY point was that you are only as good as your TEAM if you want a winning program....If you are bent on blaming the bills debacle on JP, you are more than welcome....
coltrane34 Posted October 24, 2006 Author Posted October 24, 2006 One of which is Kitna who is playing with a bad line, who now has 3 replacements on a bad line, and one of his WR's out. 815405[/snapback] Martz dosn't run the ball (except against buffalo), kitna has one of the most talented young WR in the league, and Detriot has had to throw the ball to stay in games.
VABills Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 Kitna has a bad line, but has played two bad defenses BACK-To-BACK. The Bills and Jets defense are bottom-feeders right now in the NFL....Kitna has boosted his ratings from these two games....JP played the Chicago defense and Pats defense in the last 3 games....I think they are different beasts... Also, there are 3 new players on the Lions line.....Who knows, may be they are gems that the new regime has unearthed.....Sorry I don't buy into the Kitna-Losman argument....Plus kitna has been in this league for 12 years..... BTW, thanks for the nitpick from 78.9 to 80 QB rating....big difference.... MY point was that you are only as good as your TEAM if you want a winning program....If you are bent on blaming the bills debacle on JP, you are more than welcome.... 815410[/snapback] I didn't blame anyone. Just pointing out facts.
Boatdrinks Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 Throw up any stat you like, people who actually know a thing or two about the NFL understand that JP is not our problem. He is protected by a poor o-line, he is throwing to undersized receivers, he has had to run two completely different offensive systems, he has not had good consistent offensive play calling since coming into the league, and he has tried to put the whole city on his shoulders. Not to mention that he seems to be the only one on the team with any heart. Any Qb from Jim Kelly to Brett Farve to Joe Montana would struggle in this situation. Stop reading stats that don't matter. Jp needs to be surrounded by a line that can block, receivers that can get open past four yards, coaches that do not make bad decisions, and fans that cheer. Getting a QB in the draft and giving up on Jp who will be a great QB is the dumbest thing the Bills could do. It would set the franchise back at least three to four years. It would also not allow for the Bills to draft some great lineman on both sides of the ball, pretty much putting them back in the situation they are in now. A situation where they have an unproven guy running for his life behind center, and a team that doesn’t seem to care. Sorry, but can't agree. The difference in this game was Brady,plain and simple as much as I can't stand the guy. We had more heat on him all day than NE had on JP, and when he needed to TB just calmly stepped around in the pocket and made key throws. Heck he even missed one or two or the score may have bben worse. What did JP produce? A whopping two FG's , a couple of fumbles and a horrible INT. He just doesn't show the awareness and certainly not the almost uncanny ability to sense what's going on around him that TB has and has shown since day one. This is the "it" factor. And face it, we haven't had a guy with "it" around here in many years. Very few teams have "great" OL's in this league any more-you simply cannot keep them all around with the cap being what it is. This makes a QB with "it" more important than ever. I HATE the Pats, but check out their OL. They've lost how many starters since their first SB? Yet they just plug in another guy and move on. Amazing how we can't seem to find a single OL that can play. It's got more than a little something to do with the QB, and we have no one there right now to have any chance at a playoff type season. And won't until that changes.
BuffaloRebound Posted October 24, 2006 Posted October 24, 2006 The Bills may have had horrible O-lines the last 10 years, but none of the QB's who left here and played somewhere else had more success elsewhere. I guess those teams had bad O-lines too.
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