bills_fan Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Do you really think that our safeties read well enough to run press coverage? Do you think that we stop the run well enough to put opposing Os into down and distance positions where we are able to take chances or dictate what they do? I'd rather force it. McGee and Clements have basically been emasculated by the 10 yard cushion they are forced to give on every damn play. Let em play tight. Then, at least, they may be able to make a play on the god damn ball. If they get beat, they get beat. At least McGee would not be overthinking so much and could simply let his athletic talent take over and react. Give me tight man, with safety help deep, in case someone gets beat. As far as dictating down and distance (and I can't believe I'm saying this) but bring the house a la Jerry Gray in 2004. Bringing the house, with tight man, will cause turnovers and big plays for us, and the occasional big play for them. Big fuggin deal. Thats what centerfield safeties are for. It would be better than this one-step-removed-from-a-prevent- defense crap that dares an offense led by Brady to string together 15 plays. Of course, he's gonna do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSCOE P. COE TRAIN Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 But the main thing you miss on is the fact this team has no real talent. At each position, they are overated. They have NO PRO BOWLERS. Even crap taems ahve pro bowlers. They rise to the top. Chicago was boring 3 years ago. They still had talent at various positions, namely the OL (Center) and LB (Url and Colvin) and SS (Brown). They then added layer after layer of talent and signed the BEST FREE AGENT Tackle Tait and Guards Brown and another other Tackle Miller. Their OL is the best in pro ball. Bills sign LBs, and has been safetys (VIncent) and crap TEs and draft horribly. So it starts with talent and good decision making. TD ruined this club for 4-5 years with his drafts. THey need an OL to win. THis controls the clock, give a running game, helps special teams and the defense to stay fresh. THe defense is young and will firm up. BUt they are on the field to much. Losman will blossom with a OL and a TE who can play catch and block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 I know what it is as well and I'm just not foolish enough to think that I know exactly what our intent is and how we WANT to do things merely by what I am seeing on TV (or even worse at the game as what is going on is happening so fast and in so many places and the viewpoint of the seats generally really sucks for seeing plays develop. Nothing beats being at the game for having the feel of how it is going, but the scheme viewpoints to do not compare at all to other vantage points which is why the coordinators usually hang out up above and send down pictures to the players and nothing beats tape for really taking apart and analyzing what happened. At any rate, you see there is this other little thing called the other team and our D scheme changes based on down and distance and what they do. These are the major dictators of what we are doing and not simply what type of style we want to play. Even you as a big believer in press coverage if the down and distance and the scheme selected by the oppositions (not to mention the particular match-ups- you can press Roy Williams all you want and he will eat virtually every CB in the league alive if you do) dictate you backing off then you better back off or you will get burned. What's the major reason why the Bills use less press coverage than any of us like? My sense is that the answer is our ineffectiveness against the run. Another big factor in why i think we do not press as much as I think Jauron and Fewell would like is our rookie safeties. Its great that Whitner and surprisingly Ko Simpson are such great athletes. However, time and time again we see that neither is a great player yet. Do you really think that our safeties read well enough to run press coverage? Do you think that we stop the run well enough to put opposing Os into down and distance positions where we are able to take chances or dictate what they do? 814033[/snapback] Good points. I'm not saying that we are capable of running a successful Press-Coverage only scheme as much as I am responding to the idea that we utilize it a lot, or even a 3rd of the time. I think there are some very obvious third down situations where you can see pre-snap that the opponent is going to run a slant or short hitch approach to get out in space and underneath our umbrella coverage with plenty of room to wiggle, and we do nothing to respond to this, other than sit type and try to come up after the catch and make a one on one stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted October 24, 2006 Author Share Posted October 24, 2006 But the main thing you miss on is the fact this team has no real talent. At each position, they are overated. They have NO PRO BOWLERS. Even crap taems ahve pro bowlers. They rise to the top. Chicago was boring 3 years ago. They still had talent at various positions, namely the OL (Center) and LB (Url and Colvin) and SS (Brown). They then added layer after layer of talent and signed the BEST FREE AGENT Tackle Tait and Guards Brown and another other Tackle Miller. Their OL is the best in pro ball. Bills sign LBs, and has been safetys (VIncent) and crap TEs and draft horribly. So it starts with talent and good decision making. TD ruined this club for 4-5 years with his drafts. THey need an OL to win. THis controls the clock, give a running game, helps special teams and the defense to stay fresh. THe defense is young and will firm up. BUt they are on the field to much. Losman will blossom with a OL and a TE who can play catch and block. 814085[/snapback] Yeah it starts with talent but it does not end there. A good scheme will not make bad players good, but certain schemes will emphasize the particular weaknesses of bad players while other schemes will emphasize putting your bad players in the best position they can be in to make plays even if they are not good players. One can whine all one wants about the players being bad, but given the only players to be found now are waiver wire cuts or players that teams are willing or even haooy to part with, I see little reason in emphasizing getting different or better players now. This type of consideration makes far more sense during the FA period and the off-season generally, but a focuis on this point becomes mere bleating and whining pretty quickly. My post specifically said that the current players are generally not very good (for a range of reasons but fortunately a major problem is youth and inexperience in a team with far more rookies starting than most). What the thread maintained was that the current scheme which Jauron can alter now during the bye week like no other time in regular season does not strike me as putting these bad players in the best position for them to make the plays they can make. What is even more foreboding, the FA class looks pretty tight and I really will need to see how we are in fact going to acquire the players who best make this scheme work given the problems we have displayed. I think there is room to talk with some logic about needing better players in this context, but for someone to state the obvious that our cuirrent players have not performed well without at least some hint at specific positions or specific players we should target, posts lambasting the play quality come off as mere whining and bleating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted October 24, 2006 Author Share Posted October 24, 2006 I'd rather force it. McGee and Clements have basically been emasculated by the 10 yard cushion they are forced to give on every damn play. Let em play tight. Then, at least, they may be able to make a play on the god damn ball. If they get beat, they get beat. At least McGee would not be overthinking so much and could simply let his athletic talent take over and react. Give me tight man, with safety help deep, in case someone gets beat. As far as dictating down and distance (and I can't believe I'm saying this) but bring the house a la Jerry Gray in 2004. Bringing the house, with tight man, will cause turnovers and big plays for us, and the occasional big play for them. Big fuggin deal. Thats what centerfield safeties are for. It would be better than this one-step-removed-from-a-prevent- defense crap that dares an offense led by Brady to string together 15 plays. Of course, he's gonna do it. 814052[/snapback] II would rather win than force it if we are gonna get burned and beat too often. I think this is what is happening now. On plays like the long pass to Chad whathisname, it was the CBs covering the zone inside so they can press or cover tightly and our young safties not recognizing the deep patterns and we get beat for six. I have no interest in seeing the Bills play press coverage if they are going to play bad press coverage. Would you really prefer bad press coverage to them playing better in some other scheme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted October 24, 2006 Author Share Posted October 24, 2006 schemes can't cover up the fact that this is defensive squad with pretty meager talent. let's actually go through it: My semse is: mcgee - He has played poorly at CB this year even though actually not as bad as folks seem to think. It appears to me that on many of the plays where he has been beaten badly as he is seen trailing a receiver running for the endzone, the player probably most at fault for these TDs us a safety who did not do his cover 2 duties assigned. In our scheme the CB has the shallow zone coverage and is supposed to let the WR go past a certain point, but when the safety is not there McGee cranks it up in a feeble attempt to cover uo. If he is to be faulted for anything in this analysis it probably is for not getting a bit of a chip or jam to slow the WR down but the yiybg Whitner and Simpson are most at fault. McGee also still has great value to this team as a KR guy and that should be noted in any accurate evaluation. clements -I agree he has been OK but little more than that. I'm most impressed by his work providin run support rather than his coverage. I think you are write that he is likely gone but that is because some team is likely to give him the contract he wants but does not deserve from his play (as the 9ers did for JJ) rather than the Bills offering him a reasonable deal for his talents but someone else offering him a better reasonable deal. I think the Bills will actually overpay to keep him but someone else will likely do something stupid and he will be gone. whitner - rookie, but seems to be pretty good - he's made some plays at key moments. will make mistakes however. Agree simpson - mistake prone rookie Agree but he has shown me more than we should expect from a later pick. ellison - doesn't seem to do much at all, whcih is to be expected given that he's a undersized 6th round rookie. Also agreed but again he has given us more than one can expect from a late pick and he adds to the level of ST competition, fletcher - good when he has monsters in front of him; mediocre when he doesn't. still, he plays hard and makes some plays I think it is his play which has kept even most of our losses pretty close despite the lack of monsters in front of him. crowell -- has a knack for making plays, but appears to be out of position a lot the squad of DEs -- passable rushers (schoebel is better than passable), but weak against the run. I'm really pissed with the boneheaded play by Kelsay with a stupid hit on a sitting Brady that kept an NE drive alive and that TD doooommmed us. the DTs -- weak against the run; don't get any pressur on the qbs; don't protect the LBs. kyle williams will make the occasional play. maybe he gets better and becomes a solid player in the next year or two. Nig disappointment so far/ the rest are subadequate, and no scheme can hide that. 814045[/snapback] Again, a good scheme will not make bad players good, but when you have inadequate players it is even more important to use a scheme which lets them make the plays they can make. Our use of the zone blitz with increasing frequency does not surprise me as I understand some posts which long for Wade as I think even the Jerry Gray scheme would work better for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I 90 Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Again, a good scheme will not make bad players good, but when you have inadequate players it is even more important to use a scheme which lets them make the plays they can make. 815165[/snapback] If you are going to play two rookie safeties, a vanilla Cover Two is the scheme that had better work. If they can't keep people from running free behind them IN THAT, all hope is lost. The defense is not subadequate talent wise. The seven or eight man DL rotation should be able to hang with most OL's (including New England's) provided Fewell and Kollar are as wise as advertised. And would you really rather roll out Seau and Vrabel at linebacker than who we do ? I'll go with Jauron and company in this debate. No scheme will work if it is plagued by mental errors. If he won't throw his players under the bus, I'll do it for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 And would you really rather roll out Seau and Vrabel at linebacker than who we do ? 815179[/snapback] Depends who you got on the dline? Seymour/Wilfork/Warren or schoebel/triplett/williams/kelsay? That imo is where the biggest difference lies. Not the overall talent of the skill players but the players you have up front. If you don't get dline pressure the scheme falls apart. We got pressure for the first half, the 2nd half was a complete different story. Lack of pressure has been a bigger issue then who's playing in the back 7. It's also why we see so much soft zone instead of more bump and run at the los by our corners. It's not by design, right now it's by necessity due to lack of dline talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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