I simply do not like the scheme for the talent

[Pyrite Gal]

The buck stops with the Jauron and I think that is right in this case.

 

Its not that the players are that talented or good and if only we had a better scheme on O and D we would be great or even very good.

 

Its that the schemes we have do not even seem to put the limtied talent players we have in the best position for them to do what their limited talent allows them to do best.

 

We see this in their output as the season has dragged on with them actually performing well as the season began, but as other teams have gotten a fuller view of how we operate and begun to chart our tendencies and opposing players have more film to work with to see what are player like to do and what thy do not do well, we can simply be beaten.

 

Despite Jauron being a D genius and Farrell calling a good game (some nice adjustments to stop Brady until BB and the boys adjusted to our changes and beat the crap out of us) the Tampa 2 is not a good scheme for us given the lack of pressure from this team.

 

The opposing QB simply picks his spots to throw and we are simply not stopping the run with our lighter weight DTs and with our LBs missing tackles. Our CBs get beaten in the press coverage the Cover 2 allows and our safeties are talented athletes who do not have the experience to get back on deep threats when the CB press gets beat.

 

The Rams East hybrid run by Fairchild simply has not cut it as an offense which forces Ds to adjust to it.

 

I do not see us using the speed we seem to have as Josh Reed is a smart tough player who has gotten over the droppsies that caused his sophomore slump, but he is not enough of a speed threat to demand a double cover or force you to worry about him one on one.

 

Shelton as best as I can tell has been a non-factor and actually notably bad when he does something noticeable.

 

We may not have the OL for a higher risk style, but we do not have the players for the low risk style Jauron/Fairchild seem to want to run with Losman. Rather than have him hit 4 out of 5 passes as we try to do a controlled drive only to have him fumble ior misfire on the sixth pass attempt, I think we will have more success if we go for more and take higher risks on his first three shots at passing or bigger plays. he might throw an more INTs by going for it on the first three attempts at big plays, but if we get one big gain then we score or have more to work with. The result would be better than having him drive us downfield where then he turns it over or Lindell kicks the long FG.

 

On O I would go to the spread more and run 3 WR sets with Evans, Price and Parrish forcing the question. JP will have to run for his life more. bit this is the game he is used to playing anyway.

 

WM will not have the luxury of a FB blocker, but also will face far less 7 or 8 men in the box if we go to more of a spread scheme.

 

Our players are not playing well (yet for some of the youngsters fortunately) but this scheme would work for a solid team and we simply need to take more risks if we want Ws.

[bluv]

The buck stops with the Jauron and I think that is right in this case.

 

Its not that the players are that talented or good and if only we had a better scheme on O and D we would be great or even very good.

 

Its that the schemes we have do not even seem to put the limtied talent players we have in the best position for them to do what their limited talent allows them to do best.

 

We see this in their output as the season has dragged on with them actually performing well as the season began, but as other teams have gotten a fuller view of how we operate and begun to chart our tendencies and opposing players have more film to work with to see what are player like to do and what thy do not do well, we can simply be beaten.

 

Despite Jauron being a D genius and Farrell calling a good game (some nice adjustments to stop Brady until BB and the boys adjusted to our changes and beat the crap out of us) the Tampa 2 is not a good scheme for us given the lack of pressure from this team. 

 

The opposing QB simply picks his spots to throw and we are simply not stopping the run with our lighter weight DTs and with our LBs missing tackles.  Our CBs get beaten in the press coverage the Cover 2 allows and our safeties are talented athletes who do not have the experience to get back on deep threats when the CB press gets beat.

 

The Rams East hybrid run by Fairchild simply has not cut it as an offense which forces Ds to adjust to it.

 

I do not see us using the speed we seem to have as Josh Reed is a smart tough player who has gotten over the droppsies that caused his sophomore slump, but he is not enough of a speed threat to demand a double cover or force you to worry about him one on one.

 

Shelton as best as I can tell has been a non-factor and actually notably bad when he does something noticeable.

 

We may not have the OL for a higher risk style, but we do not have the players for the low risk style Jauron/Fairchild seem to want to run with Losman.  Rather than have him hit 4 out of 5 passes as we try to do a controlled drive only to have him fumble ior misfire on the sixth pass attempt, I think we will have more success if we go for more and take higher risks on his first three shots at passing or bigger plays. he might throw an more INTs by going for it on the first three attempts at big plays, but if we get one big gain then we score or have more to work with.  The result would be better than having him drive us downfield where then he turns it over or Lindell kicks the long FG.

 

On O I would go to the spread more and run 3 WR sets with Evans, Price and Parrish forcing the question.  JP will have to run for his life more. bit this is the game he is used to playing anyway.

 

WM will not have the luxury of a FB blocker, but also will face far less 7 or 8 men in the box if we go to more of a spread scheme.

 

Our players are not playing well (yet for some of the youngsters fortunately) but this scheme would work for a solid team and we simply need to take more risks if we want Ws.

813447[/snapback]

I see you and I think a lot alike. I for one think WM would run better in a 1 back set but the Bills NEVER run the ball in a 3 WR set. This offensive scheme never forces a Defense to have to match up as IT NEVER ESTASBLISHES ANYTHING! It is just playcaliing with out managing the game. At least if they went to a 3 WR set there would be less guys in the box to allow WM more room to run and another legitimate passing threat since they never invole Shelton or the TE's into the passing game it makes them so predictable and unproductive. I mean Royal hasn't been given a chance to be a factor all year in the passing game. Also they need to call routes that would allow our receivers to get more RAC yards. Plus they never seem to throw across the middle of the field. There are not enough quick passes called and if they are it seems to come in bunches. It's like this offense gets stuck in one mode and never seems to mix up and put plays together. We might move the ball, get a 1st down or 2 but then it always seems like we end up in 3rd and 8 and something bad happens. To me the most frustrating point is that thru 7 games we don't have any type of offensive identity and have never established any consistency whatsoever.

[Coach Tuesday]

I thought the d-line got adequate pressure today against a good o-line. But what do I know.

[Reed83HOF]

funny thing...last time this team was good our base offense was the 3-wide single-back set....the last 3 coaches that came in here tried to change us to an I-formation smash mouth football team...bring back the K-gun!!! LOL

[Fan in San Diego]

I see you and I think a lot alike. I for one think WM would run better in a 1 back set but the Bills NEVER run the ball in a 3 WR set. This offensive scheme never forces a Defense to have to match up as IT NEVER ESTASBLISHES ANYTHING! It is just playcaliing with out managing the game. At least if they went to a 3 WR set there would be less guys in the box to allow WM more room to run and another legitimate passing threat since they never invole Shelton or the TE's into the passing game it makes them so predictable and unproductive. I mean Royal hasn't been given a chance to be a factor all year in the passing game. Also they need to call routes that would allow our receivers to get more RAC yards. Plus they never seem to throw across the middle of the field. There are not enough quick passes called and if they are it seems to come in bunches. It's like this offense gets stuck in one mode and never seems to mix up and put plays together. We might move the ball, get a 1st down or 2 but then it always seems like we end up in 3rd and 8 and something bad happens. To me the most frustrating point is that thru 7 games we don't have any type of offensive identity and have never established any consistency whatsoever.

813514[/snapback]

 

You are correct sir ! The playcalling blows ! Fairchild must go !

[bluv]

funny thing...last time this team was good our base offense was the 3-wide single-back set....the last 3 coaches that came in here tried to change us to an I-formation smash mouth football team...bring back the K-gun!!! LOL

813555[/snapback]

That's part of the problem as they only try to run out of the I-formation and when the do they don't get the backs and TE's involved enough in the passing game.

[obie_wan]

talented athletes who do not have the experience to get back on deep threats when the CB press gets beat.

 

813447[/snapback]

 

 

tough to get beat in press coverage when your CBs are consistently 10 yards off the WRs.

 

maybe Nate will actually tackle somebody next week.Probably doesn't want to get his jersey dirty in case he makes ESPN highlights. he forgot he actually needs to make a play to get on the highlights.

[Reed83HOF]

one thing that does concern me is that most successful coaches know that they need to fit their scheme to their players....example if you have players that are suited for a smash mouth run run run offense, you taylor your scheme to the talent....that isn't happening here...

 

I think Marv, Dick, Steve and Perry probably decided what the best schemes in the NFL are right now...[Cover 2 (Indy, Chicago, Tampa) and an offense that I have no clue about the O...I would say Indy's or the SB Rams, but we aren't doing that...]...they want to gut the roster and bring inpeoeple who will play what they want to run...which may not be a bad thing because...I don't think we have the veteran leadership that will allow us to win...

 

I actually think is next year will be another big roster purge...next year we will be a bit better, but the results won't be until 2008..that does not make me happy...they decided on their schemes and will be brining in a whole new team to be part of it...at best we will keep Morman, Willis, Evans, Crowell, Parrish, Reed, Lindell, Peters, Mcgee ( we just signed him) and the 2006 draft class...Fletch will be gone, with Ellison taking his place, Clements will go...If TKO can recover and not be a Sam Cowart (he was Great), he'll stick around..JP...he has 9 more games...I think it was Bill Walsh & Holmgren that said it takes about 20 games (Starts) for a QB to see if he can hang in the NFL and be a factor ir not

[Reed83HOF]

That's part of the problem as they only try to run out of the I-formation and when the do they don't get the backs and TE's involved enough in the passing game.

813560[/snapback]

 

they should run it in the spread formation...should give Willis more room to run...our WRs can actually do a better job blocking than the OL...Shelton is a waste...I remember TT saying that he would rather have a 1 back set...it was 1 less guy he had to run around....

 

They need to pass over the middle of the field...the WRs are always covered when JP actually has time to throw...I said this last week....they never get open...why is that? The TEs should be a good outlet for him...its better than his 15 dum,p offs to Willis..at least it cuold keep the D guessing more...My only thought is that the TEs need to stay on their blocks to keep JP from getting killed...

[Pyrite Gal]

tough to get beat in press coverage when your CBs are consistently 10 yards off the WRs.

 

maybe Nate will actually tackle somebody next week.Probably doesn't want to get his jersey dirty in case he makes ESPN highlights. he forgot he actually needs to make a play to get on the highlights.

813565[/snapback]

 

I disagree in that they clearly do mix up the scheme with press and lay back but as far as consistently playing ten yards back one only wishes this were the case on plays like Chad whathisname beating McGee deeo fir a TD today and on plays like the one near the end of the MN game where McGee bit on the stutter step amd fortunately the MN WR who was streaking toward the endzone with no one to stop of him let Johnson's pass trickle off his finger tips.

 

Likewise in the redzone where the problem was not the Bills playing too tight but even in close quarters they let the WR get behind them so that today it was only because Brady led the WR too much that they missed a TD and in fact they did score a TDon a great catch where the WR simply beat the CB on a crossing pattern for the score.

 

Time after time its been the lack of a pash rush putting little pressure on the QB that has allowed a score rather than a bend but do not breal approach.

[MrLocke]

System/personnelI was saying this for a while. I wasn't a huge Wade fan but atleast he switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4 to get Cowart or the best players on the field. Really good coaches should know how to play several schemes and then come up with the best one for the personnel.

[34-78-83]

I can't remember the last time this team used press coverage on more than a handful of plays in a game.

[Pyrite Gal]

I can't remember the last time this team used press coverage on more than a handful of plays in a game.

813674[/snapback]

 

Its a regular part of the standard cover 2 aand Tampa 2 packages.

 

In the Tampa 2, the two safeties and the MLB divide the deep downfield coverage into three parts. while the CBs play a zone press coverage underneath on the two outside receivers. The two CBs play tight press coverage in the shallow zone 10-15 yards and if the WR continues to run a fly patterm or crosses into the center of the field, the CB lets him go for a pick-up in coverage by the safeties or the MLB playing centerfielder deep coverage.

 

The Bills have used this system so far this season and we have seen big plays by the other team when a safety such as Whitner or Simpson recognizes to late that the reciever is going deep and gets over late to cover.

 

This appears to be what happened on the MN deep ball that grazed off the WRs finger tips when it looked like what had happened was that McGee had simply been beaten by the stop and go when actually it was Whitner who bit on the stop and thought the WR was not coming deep into his deep cover zone when actually he only stutter stepped and came deep.

 

I will look again at the tape of the Chad Jacksom TD (if I can stomach looking through this game again, because it would not surprise me if the guy who really got beat was not McGee who badly trailed Jackson, but Ko Simpson for not recognizing the play and not playing the cover deep like he was supposed to.

[Reed83HOF]

I will look again at the tape of the Chad Jacksom TD (if I can stomach looking through this game again, because it would not surprise me if the guy who really got beat was not McGee who badly trailed Jackson, but Ko Simpson for not recognizing the play and not playing the cover deep like he was supposed to.

813709[/snapback]

 

McGee turned out too shallow and was not looking at the WR until after he broke too short....he tried to correct it buut was way too late...and Ko was slow to recognize and broke too late...

[obie_wan]

Its a regular part of the standard cover 2 aand Tampa 2 packages.

 

In the Tampa 2, the two safeties and the MLB divide the deep downfield coverage into three parts. while the CBs play a zone press coverage underneath on the two outside receivers.  The two CBs play tight press coverage in the shallow zone 10-15 yards and if the WR continues to run a fly patterm or crosses into the center of the field, the CB lets him go for a pick-up in coverage by the safeties or the MLB playing centerfielder deep coverage.

 

I will look again at the tape

813709[/snapback]

 

 

you should review tape of the whole game (and the Detroit game while you're at it) and count the number of times our CBs line up in the same zip code as the WR. Ask Roy Williams-- not very often. In fact, Jabari Greer is the only CB I have actually seen chuck a WR at the line.

 

You may be right about what is supposed to happen on the filed, but it sure isn't happening. Pats entire 1st drive was set up to exploit the soft cushion McGee was giving Caldwell (a real playmaker!)

[Reed83HOF]

Its amazing how much better McGee was in a good scheme....Clements hasn't been good in a couple of years, but he has never been this bad either...I am so sick of seeing a snap and a quick toss to the WR on the sideline, whether its a screen or not, and have them gain 10 yds...it's rediculous....

[34-78-83]

Its a regular part of the standard cover 2 aand Tampa 2 packages.

 

In the Tampa 2, the two safeties and the MLB divide the deep downfield coverage into three parts. while the CBs play a zone press coverage underneath on the two outside receivers.  The two CBs play tight press coverage in the shallow zone 10-15 yards and if the WR continues to run a fly patterm or crosses into the center of the field, the CB lets him go for a pick-up in coverage by the safeties or the MLB playing centerfielder deep coverage.

 

The Bills have used this system so far this season and we have seen big plays by the other team when a safety such as Whitner or Simpson recognizes to late that the reciever is going deep and gets over late to cover.

 

This appears to be what happened on the MN deep ball that grazed off the WRs finger tips when it looked like what had happened was that McGee had simply been beaten by the stop and go when actually it was Whitner who bit on the stop and thought the WR was not coming deep into his deep cover zone when actually he only stutter stepped and came deep.

 

I will look again at the tape of the Chad Jacksom TD (if I can stomach looking through this game again, because it would not surprise me if the guy who really got beat was not McGee who badly trailed Jackson, but Ko Simpson for not recognizing the play and not playing the cover deep like he was supposed to.

813709[/snapback]

 

I know what press coverage is Pyrite and we do not utilize it except for on VERY rare occasion. My guess would be that there hasn't been press coverage on more than 15 plays so far this season.

[LabattBlue]

Bottom line...the talent on this club is just not that good. Look at the roster and try to figure out what players will be Pro Bowlers in the next few years and whether they will still be Bills at that point. It's a very short list.

[Pyrite Gal]

I know what press coverage is Pyrite and we do not utilize it except for on VERY rare occasion. My guess would be that there hasn't been press coverage on more than 15 plays so far this season.

813915[/snapback]

 

I know what it is as well and I'm just not foolish enough to think that I know exactly what our intent is and how we WANT to do things merely by what I am seeing on TV (or even worse at the game as what is going on is happening so fast and in so many places and the viewpoint of the seats generally really sucks for seeing plays develop.

 

Nothing beats being at the game for having the feel of how it is going, but the scheme viewpoints to do not compare at all to other vantage points which is why the coordinators usually hang out up above and send down pictures to the players and nothing beats tape for really taking apart and analyzing what happened.

 

At any rate, you see there is this other little thing called the other team and our D scheme changes based on down and distance and what they do. These are the major dictators of what we are doing and not simply what type of style we want to play. Even you as a big believer in press coverage if the down and distance and the scheme selected by the oppositions (not to mention the particular match-ups- you can press Roy Williams all you want and he will eat virtually every CB in the league alive if you do) dictate you backing off then you better back off or you will get burned.

 

What's the major reason why the Bills use less press coverage than any of us like? My sense is that the answer is our ineffectiveness against the run.

 

When the O goes into second down with an option to run or pass, then press coverage would be nice because a moderate gain on a throw will pick up thje first down, but if you do press then you run the risk as well that the WR can be running a stop and start and when you press you are essentially having even a good CB wave bye-bye or tackle th WR when he goes long. I think we would see more press if we were more effective in stopping the run.

 

Another big factor in why i think we do not press as much as I think Jauron and Fewell would like is our rookie safeties. Its great that Whitner and surprisingly Ko Simpson are such great athletes. However, time and time again we see that neither is a great player yet.

 

We see it on examples like yesterday's game when Chad Jackson took in a long TD from Brady beating McGee who may well have been trying to run the much ballyhooed in this thread press coverage and young safety Ko Simpson had deep cover and clearly was not there.

 

Likewise against MN when the WR beat McGee twice and this time it was Whitner who was not there.

 

Do you really think that our safeties read well enough to run press coverage? Do you think that we stop the run well enough to put opposing Os into down and distance positions where we are able to take chances or dictate what they do?

[dave mcbride]

schemes can't cover up the fact that this is defensive squad with pretty meager talent. let's actually go through it:

 

mcgee - playing terribly, can barely cover anyone. i fear that his new nickname will be "drum."

 

clements - playing ok, but has not made a difference making play all season. he's outta here in any case.

 

whitner - rookie, but seems to be pretty good - he's made some plays at key moments. will make mistakes however.

 

simpson - mistake prone rookie

 

ellison - doesn't seem to do much at all, whcih is to be expected given that he's a undersized 6th round rookie.

 

fletcher - good when he has monsters in front of him; mediocre when he doesn't. still, he plays hard and makes some plays

 

crowell -- has a knack for making plays, but appears to be out of position a lot

 

the squad of DEs -- passable rushers (schoebel is better than passable), but weak against the run.

 

the DTs -- weak against the run; don't get any pressur on the qbs; don't protect the LBs. kyle williams will make the occasional play. maybe he gets better and becomes a solid player in the next year or two.

 

all in all, there are a couple of above average players on the D -- whitner and schoebel, and possibly fletcher -- plus a couple of guys who are nothing to write home about but who are legit nfl starters - crowell and clements. the rest are subadequate, and no scheme can hide that.