Just in case you ever wondered what makes us

[ajzepp]

Hey guys, I was just wondering what your opinions are on abortion, the death penalty, military spending, education reform, welfare, health care, prayer in schools, UFO's, angels and same-sex marriage.

815538[/snapback]

 

Abortion: I believe it's between a woman, he doctor, and her God in terms of the decision...but I'm always rooting for the baby.

 

Death Penalty: I'm in favor of it.

 

Military Spending: I think we need to always have the most technologically advanced, powerful military in the world, to the degree that nobody is even a close second.

 

Education reform: ugh...

 

Health Care: ugh

 

welfare: I believe in it, but I think more needs to be done to get viable workers off the welfare nipple

 

Prayer in schools: I think this country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and ethics to the degree that we should never deny the role that the forefathers believed God played in the creation of this country. If a student believes otherwise, they can remain silent during the pledge of allegiance. As for a prayer time, there is no reason why there cannot be a brief period of time where each student can choose whether to pray quietly to themselves or remain silent while others do.

 

UFOs: scare the hell outta me

 

Angles: I believe in them wholeheartedly

 

gay marriage: I think that people should be allowed to love whomever they want w/out the risk of discrimination. That being said, I believe marriage is for a man and a woman, but I'm in favor of allowing for a domestic partnership sort of thing.

 

I know you were being sarcastic, but I thought this would be a good time to take a self-inventory of what I believe as of Oct 24, 2006

 

PS. above all else, I support every other person's God given right to feel differently about these issues than I do.....God bless America!

[stuckincincy]

Thanks Cincy...you've established that you don't know sh-- about Indians either. 

815227[/snapback]

 

Thank you, Tenny.

[ajzepp]

Oddly enough, I happened to receive a forwarded email from my ex-wife today that I feel pertains to the article I posted. I guess this is a true story from someone she knows, but nonetheless.....I think it's pertinent:

 

At a fundraising dinner for a school that serves learning-disabled children, the father of one of the students delivered a speech that would never be forgotten by all who attended. After extolling the school and its dedicated staff, he offered a question: "When not interfered with by outside influences, everything nature does is done with perfection. Yet my son, Shay, cannot learn things as other children do. He cannot understand things as other children do. Where is the natural order of things in my son?"

 

The audience was stilled by the query.

 

The father continued. "I believe that when a child like Shay, physically and mentally handicapped comes into the world, an opportunity to realize true human nature presents itself, and it comes in the way other people treat that child."

 

Then he told the following story:

 

Shay and his father had walked past a park where some boys Shay knew were playing baseball. Shay asked, "Do you think they'll let me play?" Shay's father knew that most of the boys would not want someone like Shay on their team, but the father also understood that if his son were allowed to play, it would give him a much-needed sense of belonging and some confidence to be accepted by others in spite of his handicaps.

 

Shay's father approached one of the boys on the field and asked (not expecting much) if Shay could play. The boy looked around for guidance and said, "We're losing by six runs and the game is in the eighth inning. I guess he can be on our team and we'll try to put him in to bat in the ninth inning."

 

Shay struggled over to the team's bench and, with a broad smile, put on a team shirt. His Father watched with a small tear in his eye and warmth in his heart. The boys saw the father's joy at his son being accepted. In the bottom of the eighth inning, Shay's team scored a few runs but was still behind by three. In the top of the ninth inning, Shay put on a glove and played in the right field. Even though no hits came his way, he was obviously ecstatic just to be in the game and on the field, grinning from ear to ear as his father waved to him from the stands. In the bottom of the ninth inning, Shay's team scored again. Now, with two outs and the bases loaded, the potential winning run was on base and Shay was scheduled to be next at bat.

 

At this juncture, do they let Shay bat and give away their chance to win the game? Surprisingly, Shay was given the bat. Everyone knew that a hit was all but impossible because Shay didn't even know how to hold the bat properly, much less connect with the ball.

 

However, as Shay stepped up to the plate, the pitcher, recognizing that the other team was putting winning aside for this moment in Shay's life, moved in a few steps to lob the ball in softly so Shay could at least make contact. The first pitch came and Shay swung clumsily and missed. The pitcher again took a few steps forward to toss the ball softly towards Shay. As the pitch came in, Shay swung at the ball and hit a slow ground ball right back to the pitcher.

 

The game would now be over. The pitcher picked up the soft grounder and could have easily thrown the ball to the first baseman. Shay would have been out and that would have been the end of the game.

 

Instead, the pitcher threw the ball right over the first baseman's head, out of reach of all team mates. Everyone from the stands and both teams started yelling, "Shay, run to first! Run to first!" Never in his life had Shay ever run that far, but he made it to first base. He scampered down the baseline, wide-eyed and startled.

 

Everyone yelled, "Run to second, run to second!" Catching his breath, Shay awkwardly ran towards second, gleaming and struggling to make it to the base. By the time Shay rounded towards second base, the right fielder had the ball ... the smallest guy on their team who now had his first chance to be the hero for his team. He could have thrown the ball to the second-baseman for the tag, but he understood the pitcher's intentions so he, too, intentionally threw the ball high and far over the third-baseman's head. Shay ran toward third base deliriously as the runners ahead of him circled the bases toward home.

 

All were screaming, "Shay, Shay, Shay, all the Way Shay"

 

Shay reached third base because the opposing shortstop ran to help him by turning him in the direction of third base, and shouted, "Run to third! Shay, run to third!"

 

As Shay rounded third, the boys from both teams, and the spectators, were on their feet screaming, "Shay, run home! Run home!" Shay ran to home, stepped on the plate, and was cheered as the hero who hit the grand slam and won the game for his team.

 

"That day", said the father softly with tears now rolling down his face, "the boys from both teams helped bring a piece of true love and humanity into this world".

 

Shay didn't make it to another summer. He died that winter, having never forgotten being the hero and making his father so happy, and coming home and seeing his Mother tearfully embrace her little hero of the day!

[erynthered]

Oddly enough, I happened to receive a forwarded email from my ex-wife today that I feel pertains to the article I posted. I guess this is a true story from someone she knows, but nonetheless.....I think it's pertinent:

 

At a fundraising dinner for a school that serves learning-disabled children, the father of one of the students delivered a speech that would never be forgotten by all who attended. After extolling the school and its dedicated staff, he offered a question: "When not interfered with by outside influences, everything nature does is done with perfection. Yet my son, Shay, cannot learn things as other children do. He cannot understand things as other children do. Where is the natural order of things in my son?"

 

The audience was stilled by the query.

 

The father continued. "I believe  that when a child like Shay, physically and mentally handicapped comes into the world, an opportunity to realize true human nature presents itself, and it comes in the way other people treat that child."

 

Then he told the following story:

 

Shay and his father had walked past a park where some boys Shay knew were playing baseball. Shay asked, "Do you think they'll let me play?"  Shay's father knew that most of the boys would not want someone like Shay on their team, but the father also understood that if his son were allowed to play, it would give him a much-needed sense of belonging and some confidence to be accepted by others in spite of his handicaps.

 

Shay's father approached one of the boys on the field and asked (not expecting much) if Shay could play. The boy looked around for guidance and said, "We're losing by six runs and the game is in the eighth inning. I guess he can be on our team and we'll try to put him in to bat in the ninth inning."

 

Shay struggled over to the team's bench and, with a broad smile, put on a team shirt. His Father watched with a small tear in his eye and warmth in his heart. The boys saw the father's joy at his son being accepted. In the bottom of the eighth inning, Shay's team scored a few runs but was still behind by three. In the top of the ninth inning, Shay put on a glove and played in the right field. Even though no hits came his way, he was obviously ecstatic just to be in the game and on the field, grinning from ear to ear as his father waved to him from the stands. In the bottom of the ninth inning, Shay's team scored again. Now, with two outs and the bases loaded, the potential winning run was on base and Shay was scheduled to be next at bat.

 

At this juncture, do they let Shay bat and give away their chance to win the game? Surprisingly, Shay was given the bat. Everyone knew that a hit was all but impossible because Shay didn't even know how to hold the bat properly, much less connect with the ball.

 

However, as Shay stepped up to the plate, the pitcher, recognizing that the other team was putting winning aside for this moment in Shay's life, moved in a few steps to lob the ball in softly so Shay could at least make contact. The first pitch came and Shay swung clumsily and missed. The pitcher again took a few steps forward to toss the ball softly towards Shay. As the pitch came in, Shay swung at the ball and hit a slow ground ball right back to the pitcher.

 

The game would now be over. The pitcher picked up the soft grounder and could have easily thrown the ball to the first baseman. Shay would have been out and that would have been the end of the game.

 

Instead, the pitcher threw the ball right over the first baseman's head, out of reach of all team mates. Everyone from the stands and both teams started yelling, "Shay, run to first! Run to first!" Never in his life had Shay ever run that far, but he made it to first base. He scampered down the baseline, wide-eyed and startled.

 

Everyone yelled, "Run to second, run to second!" Catching his breath, Shay awkwardly ran towards second, gleaming and struggling to make it to the base. By the time Shay rounded towards second base, the right fielder had the ball ... the smallest guy on their team who now had his first chance to be the hero for his team. He could have thrown the ball to the second-baseman for the tag, but he understood the pitcher's intentions so he, too, intentionally threw the ball high and far over the third-baseman's head. Shay ran toward third base deliriously as the runners ahead of him circled the bases toward home.

 

All were screaming, "Shay, Shay, Shay, all the Way Shay"

 

Shay reached third base because the opposing shortstop ran to help him by turning him in the direction of third base, and shouted, "Run to third! Shay, run to third!"

 

As Shay rounded third, the boys from both teams, and the spectators, were on their feet screaming, "Shay, run home! Run home!" Shay ran to home, stepped on the plate, and was cheered as the hero who hit the grand slam and won the game for his team.

 

"That day", said the father softly with tears now rolling down his face, "the boys from both teams helped bring a piece of true love and humanity into this world".

 

Shay didn't make it to another summer. He died that winter, having never forgotten being the hero and making his father so happy, and coming home and seeing his Mother tearfully embrace her little hero of the day!

815685[/snapback]

 

<tennyboy>

Yeah but, we torture people and we suck. Flightsuit, nose picker, lock box.

 

 

ajzepp, !@#$er, thanks for making me cry.

[ajzepp]

<tennyboy>

Yeah but, we torture people and we suck. Flightsuit, nose picker, lock box.

ajzepp, !@#$er, thanks for making me cry.

815716[/snapback]

 

LOL!!

[tennesseeboy]

<tennyboy>

Yeah but, we torture people and we suck. Flightsuit, nose picker, lock box.

ajzepp, !@#$er, thanks for making me cry.

815716[/snapback]

Ah...an ad hominem attack. Guess you don't have anything to add on the topic?

[tennesseeboy]

Understood, but again strategic use of overwhelming force, while very debatable, is a far cry from testing VX on political prisoners and killing newborn babies, is it not?

 

And I don't think the OP was meant to take a holier than thou approach to a general notion of "others" but at a very specific group of people led by a madman.

 

My 2 cents anyway...

815541[/snapback]

Actually I'm all in favor of the strategic use of overwhelming force. Burning hundreds of thousands of civilians to death for no good reason doesn't fit into my idea of strategic use of overwhelming force. I don't like what Korea is doing...nasty nasty...but I don't vote in Korea and don't have much say over their policy. You think we're going to send our what, 20,000 troops in South Korea over the DMZ to kick ass and change their policy? I don't think so.

[yall]

...but I don't vote in Korea

816468[/snapback]

 

Does anyone???

[Chilly]

The last section of President Wilson's address to Congress, April 2, 1917...

 

"...It is a distressing and oppressive duty, gentlemen of the Congress, which I have performed in thus addressing you. There are, it may be, many months of fiery trial and sacrifice ahead of us. It is a fearful thing to lead this great peaceful people into war, into the most terrible and disastrous of all wars, civilization itself seeming to be in the balance. But the right is more precious than peace, and we shall fight for the things which we have always carried nearest our hearts -- for democracy, for the right of those who submit to authority to have a voice in their own governments, for the rights and liberties of small nations, for a universal dominion of right by such a concert of free peoples as shall bring peace and safety to all nations and make the world itself at last free. To such a task we can dedicate our lives and our fortunes, everything that we are and everything that we have, with the pride of those who know that the day has come when America is privileged to spend her blood and her might for the principles that gave her birth and happiness and the peace which she has treasured. God helping her, she can do no other."

 

Full text:

 

http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/1917/wilswarm.html

814657[/snapback]

 

Of course the Wilsonian approach to Foreign Policy proved to be a complete and utter failure, and Bush's foreign policy seems to be comprised of a lot of the same parts of Wilson's.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Does anyone???

816667[/snapback]

They do, actually, they just have basically one party to choose from and a vague pretense of others, and then those who aren't loyal to the party, well, you know...

[ajzepp]

Actually I'm all in favor of the strategic use of overwhelming force.  Burning hundreds of thousands of civilians to death for no good reason doesn't fit into my idea of strategic use of overwhelming force.  I don't like what Korea is doing...nasty nasty...but I don't vote in Korea and don't have much say over their policy.  You think we're going to send our what, 20,000 troops in South Korea over the DMZ to kick ass and change their policy?  I don't think so.

816468[/snapback]

 

I didn't post the article to suggest we should invade them. I don't typically recommend that approach with countries who have nuclear capability. I was just trying to point out somethign that was clearly a very stark difference in the way they view human rights vs. the approach that a country such as ours would take.

[yall]

They do, actually, they just have basically one party to choose from and a vague pretense of others, and then those who aren't loyal to the party, well, you know...

816688[/snapback]

 

I guess that was my point. It isn't "voting" when option 1 is "maybe your entire family goes to the gulag, or maybe you starve" and option 2 is "yeah, you are going to the f'n gulag and if you are lucky you'll die in the first 6 months or so and not have to suffer and watch your family members do the same".

[yall]

Burning hundreds of thousands of civilians to death for no good reason doesn't fit into my idea of strategic use of overwhelming force.

816468[/snapback]

 

Meant to respond to that earlier...

 

Could you be more specific? I can only assume you are talking about Dresden and/or Hiroshima/Nagasaki.

 

I guess that's what I meant by debatable. You may see it as being done for no good reason. Plenty of people would agree. The flip side is that there are plenty of good arguments for why both were strategic operations important to bringing WW2 to an end. But that's for another thread...

 

And I also wasn't calling for an invasion of NK. It would be a bloodbath of unimaginable proportions, mostly for the North and South Koreans.

 

But shouldn't some measure be taken to stop the wholesale slaughter of the people in NK?

[tennesseeboy]

Meant to respond to that earlier...

 

Could you be more specific? I can only assume you are talking about Dresden and/or Hiroshima/Nagasaki.

 

I guess that's what I meant by debatable. You may see it as being done for no good reason. Plenty of people would agree. The flip side is that there are plenty of good arguments for why both were strategic operations important to bringing WW2 to an end. But that's for another thread...

 

And I also wasn't calling for an invasion of NK. It would be a bloodbath of unimaginable proportions, mostly for the North and South Koreans.

 

But shouldn't some measure be taken to stop the wholesale slaughter of the people in NK?

816793[/snapback]

Seems like we are kind of on a nazi board topic right now, but here goes.

 

Firebombing of civilian populations specifically to kill civilian populations such as Hitler did with the V-2 rockets is not a strategic use of force, in my opinion. This may be outmoded thinking with the onset of Mutually Assured Destruction, but the idea of firebombing a city for the purpose of killing as many civilians as possible. (Tokyo, Dresden and of course Hiroshima and Nagasaki, neither of which were very significant military targets.) just isn't a good practice in war. I say it may be outmoded because once done it becomes a standard...hence a policy of Mutually Assured Destruction (Failsafe) thinking that takes the wholesale slaughter of civilian populations for granted.

[yall]

Seems like we are kind of on a nazi board topic right now, but here goes.

 

Firebombing of civilian populations specifically to kill civilian populations such as Hitler did with the V-2 rockets is not a strategic use of force, in my opinion.  This may be outmoded thinking with the onset of Mutually Assured Destruction, but the idea of firebombing a city for the purpose of killing as many civilians as possible. (Tokyo, Dresden and of course Hiroshima and Nagasaki, neither of which were very significant military targets.) just isn't a good practice in war.  I say it may be outmoded because once done it becomes a standard...hence a policy of Mutually Assured Destruction (Failsafe) thinking that takes the wholesale slaughter of civilian populations for granted.

816949[/snapback]

 

But again most of those incidents are at least debatable as far as strategy goes. You may not think they were good military options, but obviously some people didn't think that way, and hindsight is always 20/20.

 

That being said, we are trying to discuss NK. If we can't (or simply shouldn't) invade, what can be done? Wait til Kim and a few generals and higher up party members are the only ones left alive?

[tennesseeboy]

We can't invade. Someone (hint..picker of noses, wearer of flightsuits and "Mission Accomplished"...friend of Haliburton) has committed our forces to whatever the hell mission he is planning in "Stay the Course" Iraq. We look a little foolish threatening to use force when we simply don't have the wherewithal to actually follow through. We could boycott them...but South Korea and China are apparently not buying into this concept. There are international protocols on the rights of the disabled (many countries are patterning their laws after our Americans with Disabilities Act) and we could try to get world opinion to influence ol' Kim (lotsa luck with THAT one!). In short, there isn't a dam thing we can do about it. We'd better off keeping our own side of the street clean.

[yall]

We can't invade.  Someone (hint..picker of noses, wearer of flightsuits and "Mission Accomplished"...friend of Haliburton) has committed our forces to whatever the hell mission he is planning in "Stay the Course" Iraq. We look a little foolish threatening to use force when we simply don't have the wherewithal to actually follow through.

817024[/snapback]

 

Our troop levels in Iraq have very little to do with why we can't invade. It has more to do with the fact that the South Korean population (the bulk of which reside within 100 miles of the DMZ) would be decimated by chemical weapons.