Calvin Johnson Or Joe Thomas?

[Mikie2times]

I ask not because I think we will have a shot at either, but it would be the classic put up or shut up situation. The people backing high Oline picks would be forced to overlook one hell of a new toy. But Thomas would be the highly regarded LT so many want. You really couldn't go wrong with either player, I just see Johnson as Randy Moss with a good head on his shoulders. It would be just like the Reggie Bush/Mario Williams debate.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

Hands Down Calvin Johnson. He's the best player in college football period.

[junior]

Calvin Johnson.

 

We can sign Max Starks in Free Agency

[Dibs]

If we're in the situation to get him(Johnson), I'd try a trade down. If for some reason it didn't work, I'd bypass Johnson & take Thomas.

Why?

The draft is a crap shoot at the best of times.

Here is a complete list of WRs drafted in the top 5 going back 20 years

#3 Braylon Edwards ???

#3 Larry Fitzgerald

#2 Charles Rogers

#3 Andre Johnson

#4 Peter Warrick

#1 Keyshawn Johnson ??? (for the #1, is he a bust?)

#4 Michael Westbrook

#4 Desmond Howard

 

If I'm going lucky dip, I'd rather get something we are in more need of.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

for every charles rogers or peter warrick theres a mike williams and robert gallery. This is like kzoo mike said, another bush/williams debate. You're picking top 5 odds are you have more needs then just filling a spot. You want the best player available if you're drafting that high. No way I take thomas over calvin johnson if I had the opportunity to draft either or. Talents like Johnson don't come around often, and high picks on linemen aren't the only way to build quality offensive lines contrary to popular belief.

[Zona]

The draft is always a crapshoot. Thats why it is best to stockpile picks by trading down and out of the very expensive top ten. Those guys may or may not pan out, but by having more chances you may find some gems in the bottom of round one or top of round two. OR- I would much rather spend my money on a guy who has PROVEN he can play in the NFL....

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

I would much rather spend my money on a guy who has PROVEN he can play in the NFL....

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The Daniel Synder approach does not work. The best way to consistently win is to build via the draft. Yeah free agent acquisitions are nice fan fodder to talk about, cause more people realize what that player brings, but you build your core of your team via the draft not free agency.

[clumping platelets]

Hands Down Calvin Johnson. He's the best player in college football period.

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We can get OT help later.......Calvin Johnson is a game changer IMO. I like Doug Free, LOT, from No. Illinois. I think he could be a solid LT for yrs to come.

[Dibs]

I would much rather spend my money on a guy who has PROVEN he can play in the NFL....

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This is also hit & miss though. A guy who looks & plays like a champion on one team does not always carry that through to the next. I have no idea but to hazard a guess of the percent that fail(not live up to expectations) I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's up around the 50% mark.

 

 

I'm surprised that so many would advocate another skills position player over the lines. As I said before, it's a lucky dip.....therefore Johnson might well be a bust.

Everyone should pay close attention to the Cardinals offence this season. They have two fantastic WRs & a star RB with an awful OL.....this is potentially what we would be if we drafted a superstar WR. They have a solid veteran QB who simply cannot handle the pressure his OL puts him under so they have gone with their rookie(effectively giving up on the season).

 

The question becomes......what is the percentage difference between Johnson & Thomas being able to become a star.....& how will that effect the structure of the team?

I propose that since nobody has any real idea(just look at every drafts hits/misses) the effect of a star WR will perhaps put some bums on seats(though I thought we sell out all home games) & little else. A star OT will help win games on a regular basis......QB gets sacked less, QB has more time to make the WRs that are there look closer to their actual skill levels, RB has bigger holes to run through thus looking more talented with longer runs, when we have a lead we can grind things out easier with a talented OT overpowering tired DLmen near the end of games.

The only way I'd be happy with a WR in the 1st round is if the OL starts looking like it is going to be good.....or we sign 2 very good to star level OLmen in FA.

The Lions used 3 top 10 picks(#2, #7, #10) on WRs in 3 years. Hands up who thinks that was a good move on their part.....how good did Charles Rogers look before the draft?

 

IMO Evans is looking to develop into a true game-breaker.....he probably would be already if the OL could regularly give JP enough time to get him the ball deep.

If we got the best available player in Johnson.....what if the following year the best available is another WR? Do we get him too? At some point you have to build a team.....not just a collection of good athletes.

[Bill from NYC]

I haven't seen enough of either to be able to judge what they can do, but another wide receiver with our first pick turns us into the Lions.

On the same note, another defensive back with the first selection turns us into the "Mars Bills." No other team on Earth could be this stupid.

[Brandon]

I'd select Calvin Johnson without much hesitation.

 

The problem with the OL isn't so much that the Bills haven't invested first round picks up front trying to find a Pro Bowl LT. Instead, its that they haven't bothered investing a few 2nd-4th round picks over the years in order to bring some good, but maybe not great talent at the other OL positions.

 

I still believe the interior of the OL is our real weakness offensively and it all stems from the fact that they struggle to run block. Yes, I said run block. That's why McGahee struggles to average 4 yards per carry. Its tough to run when your guards and center are being knocked three yards into the backfield every other play. Losman, in turn, struggles because without a reliable running game, he's constantly facing 2nd/3rd and long situations. That forces more 5 and 7 step drops and longer developing plays, which again, puts the weak OL right back at center stage.

 

So yeah, adding a LT would help a little, but until the Bills decide to bring in some quality players between the OT positions, its probably still going to be a mediocre OL.

[Nanker]

Personally I'd rather draft a skill position player with a top 10 pick, but the state of affairs of our two lines is so dreadful that rounds 2-4 should be used to address them. If Marv wants to take another speedy midget that's what day 2 and rounds 6 & 7 are for.

 

One could argue that they began to address the DLine already with next year's #5 pick.

We need to draft two Left Tackles and at least one DT.

 

Gee. What a great topic for Week 7.

[JimBob2232]

Calvin johnson by far. The best WR i have seen in college in a long time. He would make a great compliment to evans. Then pick all OL for the rest of the drafta s far as I care...

[JStranger76]

Not that I don't believe Johnson is a special talent, but a LT has to block every play, where a WR isn't involved as much every play. I'd be torn, and sure, no pick is a sure thing but as for TOP FLIGHT Olineman, the chances greatly diminish the lower they are rated in the draft. Almost all ProBowl LT's were top 10 picks, while it is a little easier to "get lucky" with a WR. Now I said ALMOST all lineman, so I don't need a list of all the lower round guys playing well. As for LT, besides Matt Light, most Franchise LT's are top 10 picks. I guess in the end I wouldn't pass up "the best LOOKING chance" to grab a Franchise LT. If we somehow have the opportunity, DON'T PASS ON THOMAS!!!!!! Then we still need more help on the interior and DT, and then maybe LB and CB...........This is going to be a tough offseason.

[H2o]

I say we go after OL help. That's our greatest need at the moment. JP has shown good improvement from last season to this one in his reading of coverage, decision making, and throwing ability. I think we will be alright at QB, especially if we get a SOLID OL to protect Losman.

 

We also might want to look into Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch, or Kenny Irons. I'm still not buying into Willis staying in Buffalo just yet. I like Willis, I really do, but I'm not sure if he is in this for the long haul or not. Plus we know what his agent, Drew Rosenhaus, is all about.

 

A guy that should be available early in the 3rd or maybe even the 4th round would be Scott Chandler out of Iowa. This guy is a 6'7", 257 pound perfect fit TE. He can block, run routes to get open, and catch the football in coverage. The perfect safety valve for JP. Greg Olsen(Miami), Matt Spaeth(Minn), or Matt Herian(Nebraska) could be another option at TE in the 3rd, maybe 4th round.

 

I also don't think it should be out of our minds that our LB core is aging. Maybe a Paul Posluszny from Penn St. should be one of our considerations. He reminds me alot of Shane Conlan. We could also take a look at Patrick Willis, the tackling machine from Ole Miss. There's also Prescott Burgess from Michigan and Rufus Alexander from Oklahoma to think about. I don't think that we should really use a high draft pick on a LB though.

 

If we're going to talk about WR, we also have to throw Dwayne Jarrett into the mix. I don't really see him staying for a final year at USC. There's too much money available right now for this guy to pass up I believe. He doesn't have the "big body" of Johnson, but will be a good NFL WR just the same. Jeff Samardzija is also a possible thought as is Steve Smith(USC) and Tedd Ginn Jr.(Ohio St.) if he comes out.

 

We also might want to think about CB in the first 2 or 3 rounds. A guy like Daymien Hughes out of Cal comes to mind. CB from LSU, I believe his name is Sammy Joseph. Antione Cason out of Arizona. Leon Hall from Michigan. Marcus McCauley out of Fresno St. I know there are more, but I'm drawing a blank at the moment.

 

We also need to look at our DL. Maybe DE and DT (<-still ). Gaines Adams out of Clemson is an absolute BEAST at DE. Maybe Frank Odam, DT out of Texas. Tim Crowder, DE from Texas. Quinten Moses is another option at DE out of Georgia. Lamar Woodley, DE out of Michigan. Quinn Pitcock, DT out of Ohio St. Lawrence Jackson, DE out of USC. Alan BRanch, DT from Michigan. There are quite a few options here come April. I would definitely like to see a player like Gaines Adams in a Bills uniform though.

 

If we're going to talk about the OL, let's put the best NCAA prospects out there. Not only do you have OT Joe Thomas(Wisconson), but there's OT Justin Blalock(Texas), OT Jake Long(Michigan), OT Levi Brown(Penn St.), C Kyle Young(Fresno St.), OT Ryan Harris(Notre Dame), G Samson Satele(Hawaii), G Brian Daniels(Colorado), G Manuel Ramirez(Texas Tech), G Casey Studdard(Texas), C Ryan Kalil(USC), C Dan Mozes(West Virginia), C Kurt Mann(Nebraska), OT Arron Sears(Tennessee), OT Doug Free(Northern Ill.), and OT Herbert Taylor(TCU). These are all guys that could be quality starters in the NFL. Leaves us with alot of options for the OL in the first 3 rounds if that's the direction we decide to go.

 

Bottom line is that you take a chance on whoever you draft. We've seen some players drafted early amount to nothing and players drafted late become superstars. Marques Colston for New Orleans comes to mind as one of those late round guys out of this past year's draft. It's a roll of the dice that you hope doesn't turn up "snake eyes". Hopefully our scout team does their homework and drafts the players who will work out great for our team.

[Dan]

unfriggin believable thread! In week 7, no less.

 

With that being said, its amazing how everyone sees how bad the line is, yet they still can't can't resist the shiny piece of tin foil in the window.

 

Star power is great (i guess), but a great OL makes stars. A WR rarely makes the OL play better, but a good OL defittely makes a WRs stats look better.

[JimBob2232]

Are we looking at the same OT who made Drew Bledsoe better, or the same OT who is making Aaron Walters better? Or the same Vernon Carey who is making Cullpepper/Harrington better in Miami. The same Bryant McKinny who is making Brad Johnson look like Joe Namath?

 

Point is, yes our OLine is BAD... yes, we need to fix it. Yes Joe Thomas should be a good fix. But he is still only 20% of the line. And there is no guarentee he will be a stud. If Calvin Johnson is not a top 5 WR in the league his rookie year I will be AMAZED. IMO, CJ should be the #1 overall pick. And if he is there, the bills need to take him and address the OL during Free Agency and in rounds 2 and 3. You dont pass up reggie bush, and you dont pass up calvin johnson IMO.

[Dan]

.... the bills need to take him and address the OL during Free Agency and in rounds 2 and 3.  You dont pass up reggie bush, and you dont pass up calvin johnson IMO.

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...because that philosophy has worked so well for us these past 10 years. That was the exact same logic behind picking just about every player we have, and look where we sit now.

[JimBob2232]

...because that philosophy has worked so well for us these past 10 years.    That was the exact same logic behind picking just about every player we have, and look where we sit now.

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You need to address it properly in free agency. Bennie Anderson, Tutan Reyes and Melvin Fowler are not my idea of addressing the OLINe.

[Brandon]

...because that philosophy has worked so well for us these past 10 years.    That was the exact same logic behind picking just about every player we have, and look where we sit now.

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I disagree. The Bills have very rarely attempted to sign quality FA OL or draft them using 2nd-4th round draft picks. They did sign Chris Villarial, who has been a fairly solid starter when healthy (which hasn't been that often). Otherwise, they've signed castoffs at cut-rate prices and the results have been predictably bad.

 

On draft day, the Bills have drafted a grand total of three (Louichey, Hicks, Jennings) 2nd or 3rd round OL since Glenn Parker was selected in 1990! It appears they've selected all of two 4th round OL. That's hardly making an effort and far from enough evidence to say his idea hasn't worked.