Dennis in NC Posted October 20, 2006 Posted October 20, 2006 After Pat's Birthday By Kevin Tillman Editor’s note: Kevin Tillman joined the Army with his brother Pat in 2002, and they served together in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pat was killed in Afghanistan on April 22, 2004. Kevin, who was discharged in 2005, has written a powerful, must-read document. It is Pat’s birthday on November 6, and elections are the day after. It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice… until we get out. Much has happened since we handed over our voice: Somehow we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct threat to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists, or was involved in the September 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade uranium from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to be liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an insurgency, or stop a civil war we created that can’t be called a civil war even though it is. Something like that. Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is. Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few “bad apples” in the military. Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It’s interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat. Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes. Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground. Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started. Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated. Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated. Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated. Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated. Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe. Somehow torture is tolerated. Somehow lying is tolerated. Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense. Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world. Somehow a narrative is more important than reality. Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is. Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world. Somehow being politically informed, diligent, and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance. Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country. Somehow this is tolerated. Somehow nobody is accountable for this. In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don’t be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that “somehow” was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites. Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat’s birthday. Brother and Friend of Pat Tillman, Kevin Tillman
Pete Posted October 20, 2006 Posted October 20, 2006 Well said. I concur. RIP Pat and thanks Kevin! BTW I am wearing my Tillman #40 jersey as I type this. Pat Tillman is my hero
Hollywood Donahoe Posted October 20, 2006 Posted October 20, 2006 Luckily this country is still a democracy. Actually, the U.S. isn't, and never has been, a democracy. By design. Sorry, just a pet peeve. And oh yeah, this should very obviously be moved to PPP.
IDBillzFan Posted October 20, 2006 Posted October 20, 2006 That's funny. I thought Tillman was all about his country and the sacrifices one must make today in order to ensure stability in the future, albeit a future many of us will never be around to see. But I guess his brother thinks differently, and I suspect losing a family member in combat plays a role in that. His brother has come to mean a lot of things to a lot of people. I'm not sure what he expects to happen by changing what his brother's name stands for.
UConn James Posted October 20, 2006 Posted October 20, 2006 That's funny. I thought Tillman was all about his country and the sacrifices one must make today in order to ensure stability in the future, albeit a future many of us will never be around to see. But I guess his brother thinks differently, and I suspect losing a family member in combat plays a role in that. His brother has come to mean a lot of things to a lot of people. I'm not sure what he expects to happen by changing what his brother's name stands for. 811495[/snapback] I think the man has earned the right to speak. Regardless of other people --- who don't serve --- castigating Mr. Tillman for making an assessment of what has occurred in the admin. And combining it with what I hear from returning soldiers I meet, it doesn't speak highly of the trust of our troops in our elected officials. Woe is anyone who crosses the FREEDOM® smear machine. Their arguments can't possibly be rational! The thought of holding people accountable so this doesn't happen again is treasonous! They must be speaking out of grief and viseral hatred!
RochBillsFan Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 I think the man has earned the right to speak. Regardless of other people --- who don't serve --- castigating Mr. Tillman for making an assessment of what has occurred in the admin. And combining it with what I hear from returning soldiers I meet, it doesn't speak highly of the trust of our troops in our elected officials. Woe is anyone who crosses the FREEDOM® smear machine. Their arguments can't possibly be rational! The thought of holding people accountable so this doesn't happen again is treasonous! They must be speaking out of grief and viseral hatred! 811520[/snapback] I've been trying to think of something profound to say...I think Kevin Tillman has covered it. Personally, I'm sick of being lied to and having information 'managed' through the media to me while sacrificing my freedoms (and don;t even try to tell me it's becuase of 9/11).
AJ1 Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 What a sob sister lament...'subverting international law....' perhaps the most craven. Name one enemy of the United States who ever respected 'international law'. It's international law for us and anything goes them. STFU!
Bungee Jumper Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 And the American Cult of Victimhood marches on...
RochBillsFan Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 What a sob sister lament...'subverting international law....' perhaps the most craven. Name one enemy of the United States who ever respected 'international law'. It's international law for us and anything goes them. STFU! 811534[/snapback] ...except that this country was supposed to stand for something a little more, right? I've always suspected that people tend to use statements like "STFU" generally get frustrated having exchanges such as these.. Aside from that, being a citizen, I do respect that you have the right for whatever opinion that you may have, and I would in fact support that with my life. I feel as though that is what makes our country special, unique and right. I fear that respect is not returned....and that is wrong.
Arkady Renko Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 I thought I clicked on Stadium Wall, not PPP.
Dennis in NC Posted October 21, 2006 Author Posted October 21, 2006 I've been trying to think of something profound to say...I think Kevin Tillman has covered it. Personally, I'm sick of being lied to and having information 'managed' through the media to me while sacrificing my freedoms (and don;t even try to tell me it's becuase of 9/11). 811533[/snapback] Sick of being lied to? I know what you mean. Here is an alternate source of news, unfiltered by the mainstream media folks. What Really Happened
Mike in Syracuse Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 What a sob sister lament...'subverting international law....' perhaps the most craven. Name one enemy of the United States who ever respected 'international law'. It's international law for us and anything goes them. STFU! 811534[/snapback] So by that logic, because we have criminals in the United States we should all ignore the law? If you act like the enemy, you become the enemy. The burden of the high ground is ours to carry.
Offside Number 76 Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 That's funny. I thought Tillman was all about his country and the sacrifices one must make today in order to ensure stability in the future, albeit a future many of us will never be around to see. 811495[/snapback] I think part of Kevin Tillman's point is that while soldiers are making sacrifices, the sacrifices are in no way connected to stability in the future.
Billsguy Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 After Pat's Birthday By Kevin Tillman Editor’s note: Kevin Tillman joined the Army with his brother Pat in 2002, and they served together in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pat was killed in Afghanistan on April 22, 2004. Kevin, who was discharged in 2005, has written a powerful, must-read document. It is Pat’s birthday on November 6, and elections are the day after. It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice… until we get out. Much has happened since we handed over our voice: Somehow we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct threat to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists, or was involved in the September 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade uranium from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to be liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an insurgency, or stop a civil war we created that can’t be called a civil war even though it is. Something like that. Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is. Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few “bad apples” in the military. Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It’s interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat. Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes. Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground. Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started. Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated. Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated. Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated. Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated. Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe. Somehow torture is tolerated. Somehow lying is tolerated. Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense. Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world. Somehow a narrative is more important than reality. Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is. Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world. Somehow being politically informed, diligent, and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance. Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country. Somehow this is tolerated. Somehow nobody is accountable for this. In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don’t be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that “somehow” was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites. Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat’s birthday. Brother and Friend of Pat Tillman, Kevin Tillman 811456[/snapback] Amen. Well said. The two greatest enemies of freedom are ignorance and fear. America has been fed a steady diet of both for the last 5 years.
don_of_manhattan Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 Ouch. That was a very nice and subtle slam. My take on this btw is that with regard to Congress the Democrats are only slightly less responsible than the Republicans. The overwhelming majority voted to go to war and if you want to talk about who knew what and when they knew it with regards to the Iraq war you will interest me far more than the page scandal and Hastert. Not so much that the page scandal isnt horrible but what has happened in Iraq is a world class disaster of epic proportions. Heck I was convinced that Kerry would be far worse than Bush but in hindsight maybe I was wrong. Oh and btw I am fairly liberal I am just convinced now more than ever that our only hope of changing things is if the US population wakes up and votes every incumbent out of office. I dont mean replace them with lower level corrupt idiots but instead replace them with decent people who just want to do the job right. Oh and their first item on the agenda should be term limits of around 4 for the House and 2 for the Senate max. Our Representative Republic deserves better public servants. 811994[/snapback]
don_of_manhattan Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 Ouch. That was a very nice and subtle slam. My take on this btw is that with regard to Congress the Democrats are only slightly less responsible than the Republicans. The overwhelming majority voted to go to war and if you want to talk about who knew what and when they knew it with regards to the Iraq war you will interest me far more than the page scandal and Hastert. Not so much that the page scandal isnt horrible but what has happened in Iraq is a world class disaster of epic proportions. Heck I was convinced that Kerry would be far worse than Bush but in hindsight maybe I was wrong. Oh and btw I am fairly liberal I am just convinced now more than ever that our only hope of changing things is if the US population wakes up and votes every incumbent out of office. I dont mean replace them with lower level corrupt idiots but instead replace them with decent people who just want to do the job right. Oh and their first item on the agenda should be term limits of around 4 for the House and 2 for the Senate max. Our Representative Republic deserves better public servants. 811994[/snapback] Actually, that is not quite true - while not being a great fan of my fellow democrats these days, more than 200 voted NOT to endorse this war - some very high profile folks did - that gets all of the publicity.
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