BadDad Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 For those who have knowledge of OLine play. Is it not easier to run block than to pass block? If so is it not logical to run the ball with an inferior or patchwork or inexperienced line? Please take your pick of which of the above describes our present, (and for the last 10 years), OLine and explain to me why we don't run the ball a minimum of 60% of the time in every single game? The lame excuse of "we get down early" doesn't cut it and has been proven to be a fallacay. Yes we get down early sometimes, but not by a lot. It seems that it doesn't mater who the Coach is, we get down by 10 points in the first quarter on the road against the Lions, or 3 points at home or whatever the panick stes in and we begin to put the game on the QB's back regardless of who it is. We have had some decent running backs since Thurman and I simply can't understand why these Coaches, who refuse to address the OLine in the offseason or draft, continue to expect Flutie/Johnson, Drew, JP with their big arms or excapability to somehow save the day against a jailbreak on every predictable play. Every offensive co-ordinator that come through OBD in the past 10 years has expressed a commitment, before the season begins, to the running game? I'm beginning to think that there is a reason why thy're the pros' and I'm just a fan because the broken record continues regardless of the QB, the RB, the Coach or the OC and I, Mr. fan, don't know why we don't run the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 For those who have knowledge of OLine play. Is it not easier to run block than to pass block? If so is it not logical to run the ball with an inferior or patchwork or inexperienced line? Please take your pick of which of the above describes our present, (and for the last 10 years), OLine and explain to me why we don't run the ball a minimum of 60% of the time in every single game? The lame excuse of "we get down early" doesn't cut it and has been proven to be a fallacay. Yes we get down early sometimes, but not by a lot. It seems that it doesn't mater who the Coach is, we get down by 10 points in the first quarter on the road against the Lions, or 3 points at home or whatever the panic stes in and we begin to put the game on the QB's back regardless of who it is. We have had some decent running backs since Thurman and I simply can't understand why these Coaches, who refuse to address the OLine in the offseason or draft, continue to expect Flutie/Johnson, Drew, JP with their big arms or excapability to somehow save the day against a jailbreak on every predictable play. Every offensive co-ordinator that come through OBD in the past 10 years has expressed a commitment, before the season begins, to the running game? I'm beginning to think that there is a reason why thy're the pros' and I'm just a fan because the broken record continues regardless of the QB, the RB, the Coach or the OC and I, Mr. fan, don't know why we don't run the ball. 810353[/snapback] I'm a Mr. fan as well. In my lunch break I thought I'd look over the stats & see what I could see. I thought I'd check the play-by-play & count the run/pass plays called.....not counting 3rd & 5+ since they are nearly always pass plays & shouldn't count towards play selection...or penalty plays. It's rough & I'm sure I've made a mistake or three but.... W1 NE loss 23 Run 18 Pass 56% run W2 MIA win 31 run 15 pass 67% run W3 NYJ loss 32 run 27 pass(+11 passes in final 2 catchup drives)(38) 54% run (46%) W4 MIN win 29 run 33 pass 47% run W5 CHI loss 13 run(14) 17 pass(+9 passes & 1 rush in final catchup drive)(26) 43% run (35%) W6 DET loss 15 run(18) 20 pass(+12 passes & 3 rushes in 2 catchup drives)(32) 43% run (36%) Total for 6 games 143 run(147) 130 pass(162) 52% run (48%) I think from this that one can conclude....???? Basically when you fall behind in a game, the number of rushes accumulated are minimized. This combined with many 3rd & long situations puts the ratio looking to be at a lower level than what it 'actually' is. The 60%+ you want is just not statistically realistic....as example... ATL has a 60.4% run/pass ratio & they by far lead the league. SD has a 56% ratio DEN 55% most others are around us or less PIT 50.5% BUF 47.9% I do not know what league average is.....or how much 3rd & long & junk time effect every teams stats but from looking through the stats it looks like we have rushed the ball as often as we have been given realistic opportunities to do so...except for 3rd/4th & short....we pass too much in that situation. Did this help? I don't know....but I certainly enjoyed compiling the stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoondckCL Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 For those who have knowledge of OLine play. Is it not easier to run block than to pass block? If so is it not logical to run the ball with an inferior or patchwork or inexperienced line? Please take your pick of which of the above describes our present, (and for the last 10 years), OLine and explain to me why we don't run the ball a minimum of 60% of the time in every single game? The lame excuse of "we get down early" doesn't cut it and has been proven to be a fallacay. Yes we get down early sometimes, but not by a lot. It seems that it doesn't mater who the Coach is, we get down by 10 points in the first quarter on the road against the Lions, or 3 points at home or whatever the panick stes in and we begin to put the game on the QB's back regardless of who it is. We have had some decent running backs since Thurman and I simply can't understand why these Coaches, who refuse to address the OLine in the offseason or draft, continue to expect Flutie/Johnson, Drew, JP with their big arms or excapability to somehow save the day against a jailbreak on every predictable play. Every offensive co-ordinator that come through OBD in the past 10 years has expressed a commitment, before the season begins, to the running game? I'm beginning to think that there is a reason why thy're the pros' and I'm just a fan because the broken record continues regardless of the QB, the RB, the Coach or the OC and I, Mr. fan, don't know why we don't run the ball. 810353[/snapback] Personally, and this is based on 6 years of playing football myself, i found it easier to pass block then to run block as a left tackle. Does that mean that our runningback didn't rush for his 100-150 yards a game? No. I just found it easier to pass block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick in* england Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Personally, and this is based on 6 years of playing football myself, i found it easier to pass block then to run block as a left tackle. Does that mean that our runningback didn't rush for his 100-150 yards a game? No. I just found it easier to pass block. 810845[/snapback] I play Guard right now - and I gotta tell you it's easier to run block from the inside. Maybe it's because I am undersized, but sometimes its too hard for me to anchor and set against big DTs, which makes pass blocking harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoondckCL Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 I play Guard right now - and I gotta tell you it's easier to run block from the inside. Maybe it's because I am undersized, but sometimes its too hard for me to anchor and set against big DTs, which makes pass blocking harder. 810846[/snapback] See now. that is one thing that i never truly understood. The defensive tackles are the bigger guys, and the defensive ends are the smaller guys, where as the offensive tackles are the large guys and the guards tend to be smaller and quicker. Why would you not have your larger guys going up against the meat in the middle of the line? Just some food for thought. Do you play right or left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick in* england Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 See now. that is one thing that i never truly understood. The defensive tackles are the bigger guys, and the defensive ends are the smaller guys, where as the offensive tackles are the large guys and the guards tend to be smaller and quicker. Why would you not have your larger guys going up against the meat in the middle of the line? Just some food for thought. Do you play right or left? 810852[/snapback] I always thought that - but in truth, our O needs faster quicker guards to get outside, because we pull both our guards on all of our base plays. I play both sides, but normally start at RG (8 games this year) occasionally LG (2 starts this year), and spell both if I start on the bench (3 games). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoondckCL Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 I always thought that - but in truth, our O needs faster quicker guards to get outside, because we pull both our guards on all of our base plays. I play both sides, but normally start at RG (8 games this year) occasionally LG (2 starts this year), and spell both if I start on the bench (3 games). 810853[/snapback] A couple of things that might help with your pass blocking that you are free to try at your own will... -When snap out of your stance, anchor with your inside foot just as soon as the DT hits you and far to the inside, his next move of course is going to be to move to the outside due to the lack of space on the inside. You have to beat him to it and step into the block to the outside, but just enough so that you can still protect to the inside, but you want to drive him back a little bit. You can do this now because you are still on your side of the line of scrimmage. The rest is just following his shifting weight and your ability to move your feet. -One of the things that i found useful is that when he is putting the bull rush on, do the same few steps to start off, but then tred your feet, the way a running back is supposed to only go back a little bit and each time you go back drive with your upper body. -Another tip that i suggest you try is that when he comes at you, take a step back, and of course sink down in anticipation and preperation for the hit, but when you come up put the top of your helmet underneath his facemask. You are already in the backfield a little bit so after you hit him, you have him stunned, and then you drive him back a few feet. It's kind of a dirty move, but your on the inside of the line so the ref isn't going to catch you in the act as often as he would the tackle. Just a warning though, if you do this, you need to be prepared for a pissed off DT for the next two to five plays. -Also, a thing that i noticed is that coaches seem to be pushing this whole idea of grabbing his breat plate and directing him with your hands...!@#$ that! The way that you block effectively is with the snowplow block. Which is in case you don't know grabbing his jersey at the center of his chest, and using you elbows to help direct his movement. Your coaches will tell you you will get called for a penalty, but that's bull sh--. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick in* england Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 -Also, a thing that i noticed is that coaches seem to be pushing this whole idea of grabbing his breat plate and directing him with your hands...!@#$ that! The way that you block effectively is with the snowplow block. Which is in case you don't know grabbing his jersey at the center of his chest, and using you elbows to help direct his movement. Your coaches will tell you you will get called for a penalty, but that's bull sh--. 810857[/snapback] Good tips - I've been playing for 12 years now - so none of that is new to me. I'm going to have to work on it over the offseason... But the bit above is spot on. As an interior line player I am never going to try to control a guy, especially on running plays, with my hands on his breastplate. I'd have to be Mr Muscle to do that. As a rule I always use that snowplow technique beasue it gives you more control of the man, and your own body, and while you do get a little close to the guy, you have a hold of him so he can't get away... In pass blocking I had a lot of success this year when I did get set. But if the guy came hard on a bull rush, our scheme allows me to just ride him right down into the back field past the QB. DTs here are not smart enough to change their point of attack, so they end up running past the play most of the time. My favourite pass block is our quick passing series, where the QB has a quick 3-step and release. Us guy up front funnel everything into the C, letting the backs pick up the outside rush. It's so much fun to see 3 DL squished back to back between me, the OC and the other guard. Even better when the MLB tries to blitz the A-gap on those plays. The DTs always end up with face cage bruises up their back. My overall favourite block (and I got it this year) is when I get to release downfield after a pass is gone. This year, the pass went over my head, so I went off down field, the WR reversed his field, so I get a Safety right in my running lane. As I build up steam he sets to meet me, but I hit him, his feet stay still and I end up running straight down his body and off to the next block. Nothing like a weedy squishy DB to run over to give your feet a rest from pounding dirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick in* england Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Oh - here is undersized me in action. http://londonblitz.com/plogger/images/2006.../img_3488_1.jpg FYI - this play resulted in a 18 yard TD running right up behind me. I levelled their star LB and our RB scampered 18 yards untouched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoondckCL Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 My overall favourite block (and I got it this year) is when I get to release downfield after a pass is gone. This year, the pass went over my head, so I went off down field, the WR reversed his field, so I get a Safety right in my running lane. As I build up steam he sets to meet me, but I hit him, his feet stay still and I end up running straight down his body and off to the next block. Nothing like a weedy squishy DB to run over to give your feet a rest from pounding dirt. 810860[/snapback] Hooah!!! Nothing like a crushing block on an unsuspecting smaller individual than you are. There is just something about hitting the little !@#$ers that just makes me feel good. Kind of reminds me of a running play where we were running a reverse to my side, i slipped my block and headed to the next level because the fullback was going to pick up the end. The safety see's the play forming and is watching the ball carrier (receiver) coming around the end. The poor bastard didn't even see me coming. I end up putting the tip of my helmet underneath his facemask like i described above, only on a run block and picking up a full head of steam. At the end of the play, i looked back and the guy was on all fours spitting up blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 For those who have knowledge of OLine play. Is it not easier to run block than to pass block? If so is it not logical to run the ball with an inferior or patchwork or inexperienced line? Please take your pick of which of the above describes our present, (and for the last 10 years), OLine and explain to me why we don't run the ball a minimum of 60% of the time in every single game? The lame excuse of "we get down early" doesn't cut it and has been proven to be a fallacay. Yes we get down early sometimes, but not by a lot. It seems that it doesn't mater who the Coach is, we get down by 10 points in the first quarter on the road against the Lions, or 3 points at home or whatever the panick stes in and we begin to put the game on the QB's back regardless of who it is. We have had some decent running backs since Thurman and I simply can't understand why these Coaches, who refuse to address the OLine in the offseason or draft, continue to expect Flutie/Johnson, Drew, JP with their big arms or excapability to somehow save the day against a jailbreak on every predictable play. Every offensive co-ordinator that come through OBD in the past 10 years has expressed a commitment, before the season begins, to the running game? I'm beginning to think that there is a reason why thy're the pros' and I'm just a fan because the broken record continues regardless of the QB, the RB, the Coach or the OC and I, Mr. fan, don't know why we don't run the ball. 810353[/snapback] Great question. The playing experience of those in this thread notwithstanding, I am going to say that almost every lineman in the NFL would rather run block than pass block. It makes sense. On a running play, the blocker knows the count and can fire out and attack the defender. On passes, the blocker is obviously in a protection mode. The problem is that if you are bad, you are bad. Bennie Anderson/Jamie Nails could barely get out of their stance. Fina was too light in the ass. You get the point. Even good offenses need to establish the run more often than not to beat up upon, and demoralize their opponents. A strong running game will keep the defense on the field and eventually wear them out, ala John Riggins and the Hogs. I guess there are/were exceptions. Richmond Webb was noted for his pass blocking, but then again look at his team. In summary, I strongly believe thart a 320 lb. genetic mutant would much rather charge out and strike his opponent than worry about a lightening fast, agile, strong, smart, 270 pound Bruce Smith getting around him and breaking his quarterback's neck. A good example would be Jumbo Elliot. Do you think that he was physically afraid of Bruce? At 6'7/330, I doubt if he was physically afraid of anyone on Earth, and frankly, he had no reason to be. But, on a passing down, if Jumbo lost his footing for a second, Bruce would throw him on his ass and it was all over. The thing is, if you are inferior at the NFL level, chances are you will not be very effective at either phase of line play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazykat Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 For those who have knowledge of OLine play. Is it not easier to run block than to pass block? If so is it not logical to run the ball with an inferior or patchwork or inexperienced line? Please take your pick of which of the above describes our present, (and for the last 10 years), OLine and explain to me why we don't run the ball a minimum of 60% of the time in every single game? The lame excuse of "we get down early" doesn't cut it and has been proven to be a fallacay. Yes we get down early sometimes, but not by a lot. It seems that it doesn't mater who the Coach is, we get down by 10 points in the first quarter on the road against the Lions, or 3 points at home or whatever the panick stes in and we begin to put the game on the QB's back regardless of who it is. We have had some decent running backs since Thurman and I simply can't understand why these Coaches, who refuse to address the OLine in the offseason or draft, continue to expect Flutie/Johnson, Drew, JP with their big arms or excapability to somehow save the day against a jailbreak on every predictable play. Every offensive co-ordinator that come through OBD in the past 10 years has expressed a commitment, before the season begins, to the running game? I'm beginning to think that there is a reason why thy're the pros' and I'm just a fan because the broken record continues regardless of the QB, the RB, the Coach or the OC and I, Mr. fan, don't know why we don't run the ball. 810353[/snapback] Don't oversimplify things. If you're 6'5"/240 and can move, it's probably easier to pass block but you should have no trouble run blocking either. If you're 6'1"/210 and not particularly agile, then pass blocking likely becomes much harder. It all boils down to talent. If you have it, then you'll do fine. If you don't, then you're going to struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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