Without Teague we are screwed.

[njsue]

The bills were screwed everytime he played. Probably a major relief with him out.

[Rico]

It certainly is funny to see how folks lambasted Teague and his play in the past and now that he is gone, they declare us as being lost without him.

 

Folks can't have it both way.  Anyone who complained about Teague should be dancing with joy now.

58100[/snapback]

Right on. Let's see what Tucker can do.

 

After last year's game at the Jets,

I'm more worried about what Shawn Ellis is going to do against MW.

[Typical TBD Guy]

I agree, stevestojan. Without Teague we are really screwed. But not because of the absence of his play, since we were just as screwed when Teague was playing.

 

The problem is that now TD, MM, and Co. have yet another excuse to justify playing Drew over JP when our record ends up anywhere between 0-10 and 1-9.

[_BiB_]

I agree, stevestojan. Without Teague we are really screwed. But not because of the absence of his play, since we were just as screwed when Teague was playing.

 

The problem is that now TD, MM, and Co. have yet another excuse to justify playing Drew over JP when our record ends up anywhere between 0-10 and 1-9.

58257[/snapback]

 

Hey, Bud-just sing a song. Make it loud. Make it long...

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Is that THE big issue FFS? What about "King of all Sacks" McNally? Remember, the guy who despite 49 sacks allowed by his team last season, was portrayed as a savior? The second he left NJ his their OL was 10 times better, yes or no? Was he not supposed to make all our blockers pro-bowlers? You as I recall bought into this nonsense, did you not?

 

Please. Teague sucks, as will his replacement. This is because of more than a decade of neglect in the area of blocking.  Care to comment?

58110[/snapback]

 

 

My sense and comments are these:

 

1. I think you overclaim when you say JMac came here as a savior. In fact he himself said right from the start even before he was hired that people should not expect him to be a miracle worker. I think most semi-knowlegable watchers and JMac himself knew that he was not going to be a savior for this team and that the Bills faced a long road to improvement of their OL play.

 

2. The real question to ask about JMac is not whether he has produced miraculous improvement of the OL (he won't) but simply whether he is a better OL coach than Vinklarek or Ruel. I think the flat-out answer to this is YES, if only not because JMac is so great but because Vinklarek (no NFL experience as an OL coach when he took the job) and Ruel (1 year of OL coach experience with Detroit) were so bad and not ready for primetime.

 

I think a realistic assessment of our OL under JMac is this:

 

1. Like any coach he had to work with what he had and what he could get. What he had was:

 

A. Some good young talent that had produced some in other places

I. Jennings had been productive in pass pro and run in his short career but there were significant questions regarding his health and his future after FA next year.

II. LG was a hole since RB had worn out his welcome and the candidates for the job like Pacillo had failed in their RG gigs.

III. Teague was a bright guy but somewhat undersized to take on the behemoths now playing DT in the NFL and in the division. He showed pretty well at an LT in Denver but not so well that finding a new spot for him was a bad idea.

IV. Villarial was a vet replacement for RB but not the same as even if he was a better player he is new to the team.

V. Mike Williams showed promise as a $4 but he had not developed into a dominant player under Vinky and Ruel that demanded the LT slot which might soon be open.

The back-ups looked OK like Price and Tucker but they were back-ups and no clear starters from this crew.

B. Some good production in run blocking as Henry had impressed two years in a row but pass pro (particularly in front of an immobile QB) had been a real adventure

 

2. He has run into a set of additional problems which are probably not his fault because he just got here and injuries happen. Though he didn't create these problems it is his job to fix them. these problems include:

 

A. I still think it is too early to declare Mike Williams a bust, but he has disappointed in what one hopes a #4 pick would do. he really has had substandard coaching development under Vinky/Ruel. He ended up being the beter player playing next to Pacillo in his second year when he really should have gotten the vet help a Villarial can now give him and he needed. Further, our O scheme was so stupidly pass happy it neither played to the teams strengths nor set a good tone. Add to that his total meltdown which was unprofessional but who cares about money when a family member dies and Williams has simply sucked and needs a psychologist as much as an adult position coach.

B. The injury bug has hit us in a serious way, Furst Williams overextended trying to make it back from his failings. The first game OL play was pretty good, but the wheels came off in the second game. The thrid game play was pretty good for three quarters but once again with a concussion to Jennings and Teague going out in the second quarter the wheels came off and the OL play sucked.

 

Overall, I am displeased with the results but see no rational reason to be displeased with even the output from JMacs work.

 

1. He dealt well with the Williams meltdown and he seems to have bounced back from being a child to at least trying to play like a Pro. Williams was further sloed by the injury but if he and the team stay the course with him through the season he can be not simply a credible choice at RT but can possibly begin to produce like a #4 pick should.

2, We are in a bad place with no credible replacement for RB, However, Smith looks like a find that JMac will get deserved credit for developing him well if he can improve his play over the course of the season. The tripping of Drew on Sunday is the type of mistake a rookie guard makes, if this is the magnitude of the problems this season from a UDFA, then JMac has made a real find.

3. There are many reasons for the poor sack numbers in the last two games. However, ot see,s farfetched to me to simply blame them on JMac no being a saviour. He and the OL got even better production out of them than I expected in the 1st game given their results last year and Williams problems.

The poor production in the 2nd game might be a sign of problems but also can be a sign of a team playing on the road with the base problems they had last year. The 3rd game showed a clear difference between performance in the forst three quarters and performance in the last quarter. Simply attributing this difference o coaching seems far fetched, attributing it to an inability of the team to deal with two major changes as first Teague and then Jenning went down seems a lot more reasonable.

 

So my comments are (this is the Cliffnotes for those so inclined or forced):

 

1. The JMac coached OL has been up and down in producing the result we want.

2. The 1 game and 3 quarters of adequate play indicate to me that though he is no savior he has been a part of producing far better production than I expected for a majority of the time the OL has played. Though the game and a quarter of failure was an important reason for two of the three losses, I think it seems far more likely and much more intelligent to attribute this to simply being overmatched by players on the road against Oakland and the two bug injuries which hit the OL playing against better NE players when theOL simply could not protect a less than mobile QB when he and his RB "fail to communicate" on which way to run a fake.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

I agree, stevestojan. Without Teague we are really screwed. But not because of the absence of his play, since we were just as screwed when Teague was playing.

 

The problem is that now TD, MM, and Co. have yet another excuse to justify playing Drew over JP when our record ends up anywhere between 0-10 and 1-9.

58257[/snapback]

 

 

Since I think that JP will develop into a far more competent QB if like Pennington and Vick he sits and learns his first year rather than being thrown in to play, they can use any excuse they want for me to keep him in the press box learning the game from Wyche rather than carrying the clipboard or replaying his learning of bad mechanics and habits which got playing on the run behind Tulane's line. It might be exciting for some fans to see Bledsoe forced to sit and watch JP behind an inadequate Bills OL, but i doubt it will be in the best interests of JP developing into an NFL QB.

[BenchBledsoe]

We are certainly not screwed. TD, in his interview, assured us that there is no drop-off in talent between starters and backups. See? ...

58090[/snapback]

 

Hmmm. . . maybe that's why we're losing! Every other team I watch has better starters than backups.

[JAMIEBUF12]

i bet this is how the team starts playing better....by default.i dont like to see our guys get hurt,but i bet treys backup will make us forget about trey very fast this is a blessing in disquise! go bills,i will be at the meadowlands to root the bills on against the jests. this will be our first win of the season you can bank on it!

[seq004]

I don't think there are any good players on our O-Line.....can Moorman play tackle?

[_BiB_]

I don't think there are any good players on our O-Line.....can Moorman play tackle?

58409[/snapback]

 

Sure, for two plays. I give MM more credit. GW might have done it. Hey everybody, lighten up! Sing a song!

[34-78-83]

I agree, stevestojan. Without Teague we are really screwed. But not because of the absence of his play, since we were just as screwed when Teague was playing.

 

The problem is that now TD, MM, and Co. have yet another excuse to justify playing Drew over JP when our record ends up anywhere between 0-10 and 1-9.

58257[/snapback]

 

I believe you need a visit from the dead horse beaters club, yup

[Rico]

I believe you need a visit from the dead horse beaters club, yup 

58424[/snapback]

[TigerJ]

Ross Tucker will start until Teague is back. He is not quite as athletic as Teague, but if you recall, the offensive line play improved last season when Tucker started the last few games at right guard over Mike Pukecillo. Tucker is smart and tough. He 's not as athletic as Teague, but I think he has a quick enough first step to handle it. He is a little bigger and stronger than Teague. I won't be a fool and say there is no difference between a starter and a backup. The guys who start do so for a reason. Just ask Pukecillo who no longer does. But I don't think the dropoff is going to be huge. Center is Tucker's natural position IMO.

[BB2004]

You thought it was bad so far?

 

Just wait.

 

!@#$!!!!

 

How many months till training camp?

58078[/snapback]

 

I agree with you on this, but not to that extent. Teague would be better suited to play a backup role.

[sfladave]

I don't think there are any good players on our O-Line.....can Moorman play tackle?

58409[/snapback]

 

HMMMM I'm not sure he could play tackle, BUT we could run a fake punt every play!

[KOKBILLS]

Right on. Let's see what Tucker can do.

 

After last year's game at the Jets,

I'm more worried about what Shawn Ellis is going to do against MW.

58233[/snapback]

 

 

Ugh!!! You had to bring that up huh???

 

Too true though...We're going to need a complete effort to Win on the Road vs. The Jets. That means a complete effort at EVERY OL Position, obviously Center included. I just don't think this Team has a complete, or near complete effort in them yet...It may be coming vs. The Fish at Home though. That would be nice! B)

[njsue]

Ross Tucker will start until Teague is back.  He is not quite as athletic as Teague, but if you recall, the offensive line play improved last season when Tucker started the last few games at right guard over Mike Pukecillo.  Tucker is smart and tough.  He 's not as athletic as Teague, but I think he has a quick enough first step to handle it.  He is a little bigger and stronger than Teague.  I won't be a fool and say there is no difference between a starter and a backup.  The guys who start do so for a reason.  Just ask Pukecillo who no longer does.  But I don't think the dropoff is going to be huge.  Center is Tucker's natural position IMO.

58438[/snapback]

 

 

If jerry ostrowski could do it. So can ross tucker.

 

GO BILLS SQUASH GANGREEN.

[nick in* england]

Does anyone else think that without our all-overpaid linemen in we might get some heart on the line on the line.... These boys are well overpaid for the quality of play - they seem content to trot out and block noone as long as they get their cheque each month.

 

Maybe with the replacements in we'll be better.

 

Now CB and SS is s different matter. Come back Lawyer and Troy!

[R. Rich]

Is that THE big issue FFS? What about "King of all Sacks" McNally? Remember, the guy who despite 49 sacks allowed by his team last season, was portrayed as a savior? The second he left NJ his their OL was 10 times better, yes or no? Was he not supposed to make all our blockers pro-bowlers? You as I recall bought into this nonsense, did you not?

 

Please. Teague sucks, as will his replacement. This is because of more than a decade of neglect in the area of blocking.  Care to comment?

58110[/snapback]

 

 

With us losing our first round pick and with the re-signing of Schobel, I don't know what kind of position we'll be in to even go out and get good OL help. I'd love to see it happen, as I've been harping on this for years, like you Bill. Maybe they've seen the light with what has transpired so far this year? Yeah, right.

[Nanker]

I like JMac, but it did take him half way through training camp and two preseason games to realize that Pucillo can't handle an NFL defensive lineman's rush. But having JMac here IS a huge improvement in coaching. However, from stevestojan you cannot make honey. He needs a better level of talent to work with. Take a walk down the O line and position by position there is better talent on most other NFL teams.

 

For all the noise about finding the starters and keeping continuity - what sense does it make if you let a C grade lineman play on the varsity. You get consistently bad? They sure put Lawrence Smith - who came from outta nowhere - into the LG spot pretty damn quick, and for my money he's playing at or near what RB did over his last 3 years.

 

One of my gripes with the administration of this team is the inattention to creating an outstanding offensive line. TD can't do it by taking one first round pick in four years and think he's finished. For criminy sakes we had 13 offensive tackles in training camp this year and ONE center. And that center is a converted - you guessed it - offensive tackle. People, Center is a skill position. It's the QB of the O line. Let me put it to you this way. Jason Peters could never play center.

 

The Bills will NEVER win a SuperBowl until they have an outstanding offensive line. Four years into the TD era and we're still waiting for him to begin building one.