Willis990 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 So after 15 starts, a trait that most QBs get better with over time, you have the ability to see now that he will never obtain it? But you can see Leinart being better when his flaws are those that he can never improve on? Like I said earlier lets see Leinart play more than 2 games and throw the ball over 10 yards before hailing him better than JP. 808322[/snapback] This is what you and some others say on this board. All you talk about in regards to JP is his arm strength and mobility. Jeff George had a better arm than JP and what was he, an average QB. He was also a #1 pick. I believe that JP is talented, but he was pick #22 in the first round, hardly a can't miss talent. If he was so gifted he would have gone ahead of Ben (came out after Junior year), Rivers and Eli so tell me why he went #22. I know you will say he only played two years at Tulane and he's raw. Drew Henson would have been the #1 pick had he come out as a Junior. He was considered far more talented than JP. So please everyone get off this JP is immensley talented kick. Do you honestly believe this guy will lead us to a Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 This is what you and some others say on this board. All you talk about in regards to JP is his arm strength and mobility. Jeff George had a better arm than JP and what was he, an average QB. He was also a #1 pick. I believe that JP is talented, but he was pick #22 in the first round, hardly a can't miss talent. If he was so gifted he would have gone ahead of Ben (came out after Junior year), Rivers and Eli so tell me why he went #22. I know you will say he only played two years at Tulane and he's raw. Drew Henson would have been the #1 pick had he come out as a Junior. He was considered far more talented than JP. So please everyone get off this JP is immensley talented kick. Do you honestly believe this guy will lead us to a Super Bowl. 808418[/snapback] Your comments about George are true. He had a deep arm like few others. I also agree that JP was not a "can't miss talent," and was not happy at all with the trade that brought him to Buffalo. I thought that we had (and still have) too many needs to toss away multiple draft picks. That said, the kid has improved, and under extreme circumstances. He has threaded the needle a few times this year, while last year he was throwing ground balls. He has taken it deep a few times and been accurate while doing so. He has made some runs for key first downs. Other than Evans, he doesn't have such great receivers, yet he still gets them the football. We all want to see more of the tight end, but the TE is busy trying to protect him because of the awful line. Does he need to improve? Sure. He needs to calm down, and put a bit more "touch" on some of his passes. This takes some qbs longer than others to develop, but I see progress. Don't you? Imo, the "cannon" thing is over rated. Yes.....Marino, Bledsoe, George, etc. had arms strong enough to flick 50 yard tosses from their wrist. These guys never won a superbowl. JP needs to put a bit more into it, but he too can throw the long ball. I don't see this as an issue. In short, while I don't view JP as the next Steve Young, his talent level is not one of the problems this team faces. He has enough physical ability, and seems to be learning the pro game. In addition to experience, JP needs protection. A defense to get him field position would be nice as well. Oh, welcome to the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Y. Orangeman Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Just one question: if Leinhart makes the Pro Bowl or leads the Cardinals to a significant turnaround and JP never makes it as a starting QB, will people finally acknowledge that not drafting ML was a mistake? To be fair, I will acknowledge not drafting him was a brilliant move if JP is the starting QB after next season. I'm just trying to get a fixed point at which these arguments become rational and there is a resolution (foolishly perhaps). Oh, and does anyone know where Jack Kemp was born? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluv Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 This is what you and some others say on this board. All you talk about in regards to JP is his arm strength and mobility. Jeff George had a better arm than JP and what was he, an average QB. He was also a #1 pick. I believe that JP is talented, but he was pick #22 in the first round, hardly a can't miss talent. If he was so gifted he would have gone ahead of Ben (came out after Junior year), Rivers and Eli so tell me why he went #22. I know you will say he only played two years at Tulane and he's raw. Drew Henson would have been the #1 pick had he come out as a Junior. He was considered far more talented than JP. So please everyone get off this JP is immensley talented kick. Do you honestly believe this guy will lead us to a Super Bowl. 808418[/snapback] But give JP at least 3 years before you decide that he is a not a quality QB! I mean as of right now he isn't playing that bad. He is actually ahead of the curve based on the history of this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluv Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 Just one question: if Leinhart makes the Pro Bowl or leads the Cardinals to a significant turnaround and JP never makes it as a starting QB, will people finally acknowledge that not drafting ML was a mistake? To be fair, I will acknowledge not drafting him was a brilliant move if JP is the starting QB after next season.I'm just trying to get a fixed point at which these arguments become rational and there is a resolution (foolishly perhaps). Oh, and does anyone know where Jack Kemp was born? 808656[/snapback] IF! That is the question on both QBs. What if we had drafted ML and we traded JP and he went to the Cardinarls and lit it up for years playing with those Cardinal WR's? What if JP becomes a Pro Bowler with ML is just an anerage QB? What if they both are Pro Bowlers or bust? But the answer is ML is not our QB and never will be and you said it yourself the Bills drating him was a dumb move. All I can say is that while JP is far from a finished product he has played well enough for us to win this year. The plan last year was for the running game and D to win games for us and for JP to manage games and not lose them. But last year the D and running game fell off and JP wasn't ready to manage games, let alone win them. This year he definitely can manage games and not lose them. Think about it: if we had the same team that we had in 2004, if JP played the same as he has so far this year we'd be a contender. And if you look at what some other winning teams are doing with worse veteran QB play then I'd say we should be worried more about the players around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LevysEraII Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Have you ever seen a QB in the history of the NFL that can't throw a screen pass to save his life? How about hanging your receivers out to dry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Some of you guys are out of your minds, or were not able to stop blowing Losman and get off your knees long enough to see the game. Leinart didnt have Fitzgerald, he had one go to WR. He didnt have a running game, Edge had like 2 ypc. He started out hot, standing in the pocket and making perfect reads in the face of pressure. Then, the Cards put it in cruise control. The Bears made plays on defense and special teams, took the lead. What does Leinart do? Does he curl up and call for his mommy? Does he say what do I do now? Does he run and hide after he now faces adversity? No, cool and calm, he drives down the field and sets up a 40 yard game winning fg attempt. Did this against a scary good defense. Did this with an OL that before he started was garbage. 807788[/snapback] Wow, maybe the first real sensible post i've read in a long time. good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willis990 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Your comments about George are true. He had a deep arm like few others. I also agree that JP was not a "can't miss talent," and was not happy at all with the trade that brought him to Buffalo. I thought that we had (and still have) too many needs to toss away multiple draft picks. That said, the kid has improved, and under extreme circumstances. He has threaded the needle a few times this year, while last year he was throwing ground balls. He has taken it deep a few times and been accurate while doing so. He has made some runs for key first downs. Other than Evans, he doesn't have such great receivers, yet he still gets them the football. We all want to see more of the tight end, but the TE is busy trying to protect him because of the awful line. Does he need to improve? Sure. He needs to calm down, and put a bit more "touch" on some of his passes. This takes some qbs longer than others to develop, but I see progress. Don't you? Imo, the "cannon" thing is over rated. Yes.....Marino, Bledsoe, George, etc. had arms strong enough to flick 50 yard tosses from their wrist. These guys never won a superbowl. JP needs to put a bit more into it, but he too can throw the long ball. I don't see this as an issue. In short, while I don't view JP as the next Steve Young, his talent level is not one of the problems this team faces. He has enough physical ability, and seems to be learning the pro game. In addition to experience, JP needs protection. A defense to get him field position would be nice as well. Oh, welcome to the board. 808639[/snapback] You are right on the money. There is no doubt about his arm strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Have you ever seen a QB in the history of the NFL that can't throw a screen pass to save his life? 808667[/snapback] Sure. Theres one prime example. He's been playing in the league for 12 years or so, and now he's QB-ing in Dallas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Just one question: if Leinhart makes the Pro Bowl or leads the Cardinals to a significant turnaround and JP never makes it as a starting QB, will people finally acknowledge that not drafting ML was a mistake? To be fair, I will acknowledge not drafting him was a brilliant move if JP is the starting QB after next season. 808656[/snapback] I don't think you can look at the myriad needs this team had (and still has) and justify throwing a top pick at a QB when we had one who was still a virtual unknown. Now next year, if JP has stunk up the joint this year, then you may need to look at taking a QB (though I would still rather see the team strengthen its other weak points and take a long hard look at veteran QBs that may be available). So no, I don't think I would ever consider passing on Leinart a mistake, unless you look back on drafts with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluv Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 I don't think you can look at the myriad needs this team had (and still has) and justify throwing a top pick at a QB when we had one who was still a virtual unknown. Now next year, if JP has stunk up the joint this year, then you may need to look at taking a QB (though I would still rather see the team strengthen its other weak points and take a long hard look at veteran QBs that may be available). So no, I don't think I would ever consider passing on Leinart a mistake, unless you look back on drafts with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. 808930[/snapback] Actually for then his rookie contract would be up and he won't be a salary cap hit. I mean people forget that it takes most QB's 2-4 years to hit their stride. In today's salary capped NFL you are married to a 1st round pick; especially a QB for they take 2-3 years to develop and become consistent. While JP sucked for 8 games last year, he was just following the normal NFL trend. In his second year he has improved tremendously on a team with an inconsistent O-line and short WR's and no passing threat at TE. Look at 3 QB's drafted ahead of JP. Eli was worse than JP in his first year and the Giants have stuck with him. And tell you the truth he still is an inconsistent QB. Phillip Rivers sat for 2 years but is now on a team with LT and Gates and a great D. What if JP had the weapons Eli and Rivers had? ANd Big Ben gets too much credit playing on a team with great defense and solid running game and blocking. While his win-lose looks great he is not that great of a QB as some would think. To those who want to run JP out of Buffalo, give the kid the rest of the season and next year. If he doesn't improve then I will save he has been given ample opportunity and then it will be time to start over with a new QB. Now I would hate to see a Tim Couch or Joey Harrington type situation here but it hasn't even came close to that point yet. And for the record, JP is not holding this team back or losing games for the Bills. JP and the passing game isn't good enough yet to carry the team and the rest of the team isn't good enough to pick up the slack. If the D was better and the run blocking was better then we wouldn't be having these discussions as we would be winning! Just imagine IF we had resigned Pat Williams. Our D fell of with the lost of Pat. With him our D would have never fell out of the top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Just imagine IF we had resigned Pat Williams. Our D fell of with the lost of Pat. With him our D would have never fell out of the top 10. 809002[/snapback] Williams? What about TKO? Williams is good. TKO (imo) was on his way to Canton, and was amazing against the run and the pass. He could blittz, cover, and even returned interceptions. Against the run, he was a monster. I hope he comes back strong. He deserves it, and so do Bills Fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Williams? What about TKO? Williams is good. TKO (imo) was on his way to Canton, and was amazing against the run and the pass. He could blittz, cover, and even returned interceptions. Against the run, he was a monster. I hope he comes back strong. He deserves it, and so do Bills Fans. 809010[/snapback] Couldn't agree more. TKO is one of those players that not only performs well, but elevates opportunities for other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 All of this is moot anyway, as Marv has repeatedly said that Cuter was the QB that the Bills had ranked #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaLee83 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 after half time i was rooting for the bears to win because i could not stand the idea of the bills getting dominated by the bears 41-7 but the cards could dominate the bears 20-0. 807610[/snapback] That would be like losing to the Cards 61-7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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