Nervous Guy Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Hey now, in fairness, I've been pretty positive about this team for the most part. I was even OK with Last week's debacle in Chicago. This...this was unacceptable. 806456[/snapback] ...you've had a bad couple of weeks J-Bone...we understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Are you kidding me... evaluate Marv after 6 weeks? Gimme a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyJay1234 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 To really evaluate Marv's "work" this past offseason. 1) Jauron - Why? Why a guy who failed in Chicago, has no spark, has no creativity? I see the way the Jets play for Eric Mangini and I wonder why we can never seem to find a coach like that. One who's able to maximize the talent of his players and come up with new and interesting ways to cover up deficiencies. 2) The Draft - Holy hell. Well, despite a few big plays, McCargo's been an absoulte waste, Donte looks okay at times, same for Ko Simpson. Kyle Williams looks to be the best player of the draft by far so far. Too bad he's too small. 3) Tutan Reyes and Melvin Fowler - Please. Are you kidding me? In short, Marv gets one more offseason to address THE problem on this team. The one that's been an elephant in the room for 10 years. The one that has caused the failure of literally dozens of QBs and RBs here in that same timespan. He gets ONE more offseason to FIX THE GOD-DAMNED OL! Jesus Harold Christ, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that this has been THE weak spot on the team, but it's like Marv AVOIDED the issue altogether. Is that directive coming from Ralph, who knows he can't sell jerseys of workhorse OL? It's terrible, a disgrace and (shocker) a disappointment to know that yet again, we get to watch a "rebuilding" team. 806424[/snapback] If we pick a offensive lineman in round 1 this year I will buy his Jersey, start his fanclub. I have time on my hands now that Lauvale is out of football. Who is with me on the guaranteed purchase of a Jersey for the offensive lineman picked in the first round. I will send in the list to Ralph pledging our support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 To really evaluate... 806424[/snapback] To recap...or to really evaluate, so far... 1 blow-out, 7 - 40 at CHI. 2 point loss at NE, 10 point win at MIA, 8 point loss to NYJ, 5 point win against MIN, 3 point loss at DET. Yep...2 and 4 overall. Three losses by a total of 13 points. Other than the CHI wipeout, they have been within striking distance before the clock ran out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 In all fairness, Marv has stated...and many guys smarter than us agree with him...that you start with D first. You can try to patchwork all things at the same time, but I have no problem with him getting us a long-term D in place before he addresses the offense. 806437[/snapback] I respect Marv and his football expertise, but I don't see the need to start with defense first. Think of the teams with elite defenses: the Steelers of the '70s, the '85 Chicago Bears, and the Ravens of 2000. How long did those defenses stay elite? The Steelers' defense lasted a few years, but other than that not so much so. Now compare that to teams with elite offenses, such as the 49ers of the '80s or even the Bills of the early '90s. Those elite offenses lasted longer, because offensive players were able to make up for declining skill levels with good chemistry. Or consider the Cowboys team of the '90s. In their first two Super Bowl wins of the '90s, both their offense and defense was very good. In their third Super Bowl win, their defense had taken a step or two backward, but their offense was close enough to what it had been for them to get another ring. If a good offense is less transient than a good defense, it makes sense to start by building your offense first. It will take a little time for your offense to gel, so you'll suffer through a bad season or two. But those losses will lead to early draft picks. Once you start adding defense later, and once your offense starts to gel, everything ought to come together at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I respect Marv and his football expertise, but I don't see the need to start with defense first. Think of the teams with elite defenses: the Steelers of the '70s, the '85 Chicago Bears, and the Ravens of 2000. How long did those defenses stay elite? The Steelers' defense lasted a few years, but other than that not so much so. Now compare that to teams with elite offenses, such as the 49ers of the '80s or even the Bills of the early '90s. Those elite offenses lasted longer, because offensive players were able to make up for declining skill levels with good chemistry. Or consider the Cowboys team of the '90s. In their first two Super Bowl wins of the '90s, both their offense and defense was very good. In their third Super Bowl win, their defense had taken a step or two backward, but their offense was close enough to what it had been for them to get another ring. If a good offense is less transient than a good defense, it makes sense to start by building your offense first. It will take a little time for your offense to gel, so you'll suffer through a bad season or two. But those losses will lead to early draft picks. Once you start adding defense later, and once your offense starts to gel, everything ought to come together at once. 806515[/snapback] Defense wins championships, plain and simple. Thats why you build defense first. Look what the Buccs D did to the Raiders O in the SB. Look what the Pats D did to the Rams O. And so on, and so forth. If you build for offense first, and try to patch a D together, you end up like the Colts, always falling short. Defense and Pitching win championships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 So, Joe, are you saying then that you are wrong about being wrong? Talk about covering all your bases! You'll definitely be able to say "told you so" at the end of the season no matter the outcome! Bravo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Until Ralph loosens the purse strings a bit we are going to be building that D for a long time. 806449[/snapback] Umm, yeah. There has never been any evidence that Ralph is cheap. It's something people repeat over and over hoping someday people will forget that it just isn't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACor58 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Umm, yeah. There has never been any evidence that Ralph is cheap. It's something people repeat over and over hoping someday people will forget that it just isn't true. 806531[/snapback] We we are $10MM under the cap this year...and it isn't like that space carries over to next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Umm, yeah. There has never been any evidence that Ralph is cheap. It's something people repeat over and over hoping someday people will forget that it just isn't true. 806531[/snapback] But it is fair to say that he can't throw around signing bonuses like Dannyboy, JJones or the devil in boston. He doesn't have the local revenue stream to fork out that kind of dough. We're on a tight budget and that will hurt with top flight FAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyT Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 But it is fair to say that he can't throw around signing bonuses like Dannyboy, JJones or the devil in boston. He doesn't have the local revenue stream to fork out that kind of dough. We're on a tight budget and that will hurt with top flight FAs. 806535[/snapback] Kraft isn't really an excessive spender. The Pats don't go after the uber-FAs and don't give into holdout demands when their own players complain about how cheaply they are being paid...Deion Branch for example. Jones and Snyder on the other hand......where has all this excessive FA spending taken them? Not to any Super Bowls in the last decade...that's for sure. Mostly sports fans just enjoy watching them spend their money and get nothing in return but dissatisfied fans and an occasional Wild Card loss. Something is definitely broken with the Bills, but it's not because they don't overspend for talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 16, 2006 Author Share Posted October 16, 2006 So, Joe, are you saying then that you are wrong about being wrong? Talk about covering all your bases! You'll definitely be able to say "told you so" at the end of the season no matter the outcome! Bravo! 806530[/snapback] I was a poli-sci major for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 To recap...or to really evaluate, so far... 1 blow-out, 7 - 40 at CHI. 2 point loss at NE, 10 point win at MIA, 8 point loss to NYJ, 5 point win against MIN, 3 point loss at DET. Yep...2 and 4 overall. Three losses by a total of 13 points. Other than the CHI wipeout, they have been within striking distance before the clock ran out. 806496[/snapback] Even bad teams don't get blown out each and every week. They usually have a few here and there just to make sure people know they suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I respect Marv and his football expertise, but I don't see the need to start with defense first. Think of the teams with elite defenses: the Steelers of the '70s, the '85 Chicago Bears, and the Ravens of 2000. How long did those defenses stay elite? The Steelers' defense lasted a few years, but other than that not so much so. Now compare that to teams with elite offenses, such as the 49ers of the '80s or even the Bills of the early '90s. Those elite offenses lasted longer, because offensive players were able to make up for declining skill levels with good chemistry. Or consider the Cowboys team of the '90s. In their first two Super Bowl wins of the '90s, both their offense and defense was very good. In their third Super Bowl win, their defense had taken a step or two backward, but their offense was close enough to what it had been for them to get another ring. If a good offense is less transient than a good defense, it makes sense to start by building your offense first. It will take a little time for your offense to gel, so you'll suffer through a bad season or two. But those losses will lead to early draft picks. Once you start adding defense later, and once your offense starts to gel, everything ought to come together at once. Also, I think that Marv took a look at the O and said, yep, we have decent skill position guys. Let them gel together and we'll work on the D. Also, the opportunities to "fix" the OL this offseason were pretty limited to signing FAs (Hutch, Bentley). There was no LT prospect, nor was there a decent one for us to draft given our position (if we lost @Cinci in 05, we'd have had D'Brick. Thanks Mularkey). I see a big push for the OL this offseason. I'm also hoping the DL gets some attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I fault Marv I guess in not addressing the oline in free agency in any real sense. Steve Hutchinson was available and we should have made a major move for him. My Ngata rants were to address the DT situation as we need folks who can do a lot and stop the run. Whitner may prove to be a real stud pick but we did have Vincent. Jauron? I was less than impressed but I think he'll be okay. Despite Sunday, I'm not all that displeased with the way the team is going, and expect them to improve. I'm still pulling for 3-4 at the bye and an 8-8 season. I think ML and Jauron have two to three years to get to the playoffs. 806454[/snapback] Speaking of Ngata, how has he been doing whereever he got drafted ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 If we pick a offensive lineman in round 1 this year I will buy his Jersey, start his fanclub. I have time on my hands now that Lauvale is out of football. Who is with me on the guaranteed purchase of a Jersey for the offensive lineman picked in the first round. I will send in the list to Ralph pledging our support. 806488[/snapback] If we pick O-line can we get a Mike Williams clause added... that is, if you think all you need to do is turn up with your over-sized ego and think this is just college with some older guys playing, we the fans get to line up and kick you in the a$$ until that pin-head pops from your fat turtle body and reality sets in... i'm happy to line up twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 If we pick O-line can we get a Mike Williams clause added... that is, if you think all you need to do is turn up with your over-sized ego and think this is just college with some older guys playing, we the fans get to line up and kick you in the a$$ until that pin-head pops from your fat turtle body and reality sets in... i'm happy to line up twice. 806773[/snapback] I think the ego was the one thing about Williams that wasn't oversized... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 To really evaluate Marv's "work" this past offseason. 1) Jauron - Why? Why a guy who failed in Chicago, has no spark, has no creativity? I see the way the Jets play for Eric Mangini and I wonder why we can never seem to find a coach like that. One who's able to maximize the talent of his players and come up with new and interesting ways to cover up deficiencies. 2) The Draft - Holy hell. Well, despite a few big plays, McCargo's been an absoulte waste, Donte looks okay at times, same for Ko Simpson. Kyle Williams looks to be the best player of the draft by far so far. Too bad he's too small. 3) Tutan Reyes and Melvin Fowler - Please. Are you kidding me? In short, Marv gets one more offseason to address THE problem on this team. The one that's been an elephant in the room for 10 years. The one that has caused the failure of literally dozens of QBs and RBs here in that same timespan. He gets ONE more offseason to FIX THE GOD-DAMNED OL! Jesus Harold Christ, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that this has been THE weak spot on the team, but it's like Marv AVOIDED the issue altogether. Is that directive coming from Ralph, who knows he can't sell jerseys of workhorse OL? It's terrible, a disgrace and (shocker) a disappointment to know that yet again, we get to watch a "rebuilding" team. 806424[/snapback] Quick, someone find chicken little for the sky is falling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Defense wins championships, plain and simple. Thats why you build defense first. Look what the Buccs D did to the Raiders O in the SB. Look what the Pats D did to the Rams O. Defense and Pitching win championships. 806527[/snapback] What did the Rams do to the Oilers? What did the Redskins do to the Bills? You state the above as absolutes, but you are wrong. Dwight Adams was on this board stating that teams should be built with quarterbacks and offensive lines. I know, because he said this in response to my question. He went on to state that if he was building a football team from scratch, the first assistant coach he would hire would be an offensive line coach. A few short years ago, the Bills had great defenses, or at least very good. It mattered little because they didn't have people who could block. Unless you have vivid childhood memories, you have never seen a Buffalo Bills Football Team who was able to block their opponents. Even in the superbowl years, the Bills OL was good, not great. In summary, the Bills have done things your way as of late, and have nothing to show for it other than losses. No superbowl, no playoff wins, few playoff appearances. They play football games and lose them. In 06, we drafted all defense, and threw away an early pick in this dumb process, and guess what? We can't stop anybody. We just traded away another pick for a defender. I hope it works. Are you holding your breath? Teams that can't block will never win. It has never happened, nor will it ever. We can cheer Marv as he chases after short and or skinny defensive backs, and gimmick "skill players" if we choose, but it will result in losing yet more football games. Food for thought....is Marv little more than a gimmick at this stage of the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Even in the superbowl years, the Bills OL was good, not great. 806823[/snapback] in 1990, their offensive line was legitimately great. it was great in 91 as well, although they had a rough day against the skins. in 92 it was still very good, but the wheels were starting to come off a couple of the guys - ritcher/ballard. in 95, the line played very well. that was the last good year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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