JPL7 Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 After reading the Bills daily grades and game summary, as well as many of the posters on this board, I must say that it is time for everyone to relax. And when you discuss or review the game, speak (or type) rationally. I find it ridiculious the bashing being done by the people who run this site and the members of this board on JP Losman. yea yea yea, bash me b/c my screen name is JPL7 blah blah blah. Instead of flaming away at that, respond to the content on my post. First: Do I think JP had a great game? Absolutely not! He was terrible in the first half. He looked inconsistent and inaccurate. But hey folks, newsflash, that is going to happen to someone who is basically a first or second year starter (depending on how you look at it). Some of the blame should absolutely fall on JP. But also on the lines abysmal play as well as the playcalling. It took Jaroun and Co. 3 quarters to get things straightened out. By then, too little, too late. I found it funny that on the Bills Daily review and grades, they made it a point too mention the "overthrow" on the bomb too Andre Davis. It was literally 6 inches from his fingers roughly 50 yards down field. So on a 50 yard throw he was about 6 inces off?? Yea that is terrible isnt it? And by the way, had Davis not slowed himself down by turning back to early on the route, that ball would have been damn near perfect. So hey BD reviewer.... SHUT UP about that already. Also the fumble was mentioned twice also. If stupid Gandy wasn't a turnstile dressed in a Bills uniform, JP would not have been clocked from the blindside like he was and would not have fumbled. What do you expect is going to happen when you get hit from the blindside???? Name a time when a QB gets drilled from the back and actually holds on too it? I'd love to see it!! And is it fair to say that the playcalling was terrible right up until the 4th? I have been saying all year and particularly this game, that our best bet is the short and intermediate range passes (12 yards deep and in) to keep the chains moving. With a few deep bombs here and there to capitalize on our speed and JP's arm strength and to keep the defense honest. But this 15 and 20 yard nonsense is not going to get it done. Not with this O-Line, sorry folks. The WR's do not have enough time to let there routes develop that far down the field, before JP gets sacked. And let me make it clear there were a few times you can say that JP held the ball a little long. But that is what good coverage will make you do. Is nobody else aware of that? For the most part I think JP's natural characteristic is to get the ball off quick (sometimes too quick). As if he is trying to hard to make something happen or force a play that hasnt developed yet. Though in my opinion he has improved on that this season compared to his previous stints. Anyhow my point is, to throw all this blame on JP for miniscule nonsense is just ridiculious. Again, he certainly doesnt go blameless. But lets give credit (good or bad) where credit is due. The line stinking (Gandy in particular) and the playcalling being awful can really do a young QB in. We all have to be aware of the fact that JP isnt going to be perfect and will have his fair shares of ups and downs. Its just part of the maturation process. Remember that!! This team is on the right track, though of course some improvements need to be made. So all I'm saying is, everyone chill out a bit and be fair and just to this team, its players and its coaching staff. Dont blame too little or too much any of these wins or losses on anyone one facet of our franchise. OK im done, flame away if you wish!!
Ray Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 Rational thought? On this board and Billsdaily????? Come on! The Bengals got beat by a worse winless team. Put this in perspective. Watch the rest of the NFL and you'll see just as many bad plays, dumb plays and bad teams except a few. Be happy you're not a Redskins game to lose to the winless Titans AT HOME! This game pretty much went how I thought a lot of games this season would go. They would look aful, and then do some great things. Losman looked really bad but then made some unbelievable plays (Parrish TD, the long TD drive). Hey, Detroit is not that bad a team--are te Seahawks that bad? This is an average to below average team guys. I think most people realize that. I for one am also tired of it but we knew that coming into the season that is how it would be (an average at best team). We need a big time DT and probably a very good LB to be good on defense again. Hope JP develops b/c that is te biggest obstacle holding this team back. He still make decisions slowly.
Buftex Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 After reading the Bills daily grades and game summary, as well as many of the posters on this board, I must say that it is time for everyone to relax. And when you discuss or review the game, speak (or type) rationally... 805743[/snapback] Okay, you start out with a reasonable idea, but then you go, at length, to blame every miscue JP had, on someone, or something else. JP did not have a good game. It is not unreasonable, at this point, to wonder if he will ever turn into a QB who can lead this team to any sort of success. LT that become "human turnstiles", bad play calling (which I don't really agree with- save the drive right before halftime), bad officiating, dropped passes, etc etrc are all part of the game...all things that other QB's have to contend with. JP needs to show that he can contend with these things. He is the QB for the Bills, not the Bears. His team is what it is. He is what he is. All have to improve. JP had some awful moments, but he did some good things as well. One thing seeming lost in all of the rush to crucify him, he played very well in the second half. The Bills offense, in genral, played much better the second half. Yeah, it was too little too late, but remember, up until a few weeks ago, JP and the Bills offenese were starting out well, and then were stuck in idle for the second half. Anyone who was seduced into thinking the Bills had somehow made this huge leap forward after hangning tough with a decent Pats team, a better than expected, but not great Jets team, and two victories over the Dolphins and Vikings, is bound to be disappointed. If you look at this team realistically, they are frustrating as hell yes, but are really no worse, and maybe even a little better than we should have expected. Give JP his season to prove himself, or disprove himself. He is doing some things well. He needs to get better at other things. He, like his team, is very much, a work in progress.
The Avenger Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 Uh, so people on a message board, or people that run a Bills site giving their own opinion is not allowed in your world? They have to "think rationally" because their viewpoints don't match yours? Here's an idea for you - why don't YOU go start a Bills site, update it daily, provide a service to fellow fans and give your viewpoint? Why not? Because it's too much work and it's just too damn easy to sit back and complain about others who don't see the world the way you do. Seriously, you need to get over yourself. You don't like Bills Daily or the opinions on this message board, DON'T READ THEM.
Dan Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 Anyone who was seduced into thinking the Bills had somehow made this huge leap forward after hangning tough with a decent Pats team, a better than expected, but not great Jets team, and two victories over the Dolphins and Vikings, is bound to be disappointed. 805821[/snapback] Point well made. Yes, I admit I was seduced. Hence my bitterness today. I really went into this season thinking this would be exactly the type of team we'd see. But, I allowed myself to get hopeful again. I have seen progress in many areas, but damn it gets frustrating when you know we should be able to beat a team like Detroit. It's tough being a Bills fan sometimes.
billsfanone Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 You're right. They should write a puff piece and give everyone an A even though the Bills lost to an 0-5 team.
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 You're right. They should write a puff piece and give everyone an A even though the Bills lost to an 0-5 team. 805849[/snapback] No, you're right. JP sucks. Like, if he had ever been covering Roy Williams during the game, he totally would have !@#$ed it up. Our secondary was ATROCIOUS today. ATROCIOUS. The young safeties were OK -- made their expecte mistakes but also came to play. Perry Fewell must have taken a nap during game-planning time. They almost never put two men on Williams, Nate played his usual 9 yards off the receiver, and Terrence just kept getting toasted. The CBs were consistently in no-man's land or busy getting burned. JP was bad. But he was also pretty much the only reason they were in it at the end. Also, Steve Fairchild: please call more runs to the outside. They do actually work.
Buftex Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 JP was bad. But he was also pretty much the only reason they were in it at the end. 805854[/snapback] Wow! You just kind of said what I was trying to say, but in two short sentences, instead of 5 rambling paragraphs...I am a fan!
JPL7 Posted October 16, 2006 Author Posted October 16, 2006 Uh, so people on a message board, or people that run a Bills site giving their own opinion is not allowed in your world? They have to "think rationally" because their viewpoints don't match yours? Here's an idea for you - why don't YOU go start a Bills site, update it daily, provide a service to fellow fans and give your viewpoint? Why not? Because it's too much work and it's just too damn easy to sit back and complain about others who don't see the world the way you do. Seriously, you need to get over yourself. You don't like Bills Daily or the opinions on this message board, DON'T READ THEM. 805836[/snapback] whoa there big guy, have a calm down! i dont need to get over myself, b/c i am not looking down at anyone or acting as if im better then them, not in the least. you have taken what i said a bit to the extreme. im not bashing bills daily or its staff. in fact i love this site and respect the opinion they express. I just find it ridiculious when ppl over/under react to situations and then state there opinion without thinking clearly first. if someone doesnt agree with me, that is A-OK. I absolutely respect others poinion when they are informed and have clear reason for why they believe what they believe (and this is my view on all topics, not just about the bills or sports). But the reaction that Bills fans have had over the last couple weeks about the teams performance and JP's in particular has been overkill. I just found it a bit nitpicky that they made it a point to mention the fumble and the "overthrow". As if they were blowing it up more then it needed. That is all I was saying, so relax man and dont jump down my throat. I'll respect what you or anyone else has to say if you make a clear definitive point. And by the way, I know what its like to run a web site. I did for 3 years previously and am working on another one currently. So I know the detail, time and effort it takes to maintain a site day by day. Uh, so people on a message board, or people that run a Bills site giving their own opinion is not allowed in your world? They have to "think rationally" because their viewpoints don't match yours? Umm yes actually I dont think it is too much to ask of someone to think rationally before they open up their mouth. If society in general did more of that, I think the world would be a little better off. If their viewpoints do not match mine, like i said before, no problem here, just dont spout off some nonsense without thinking. I think that is plenty fair.
Tcali Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 After reading the Bills daily grades and game summary, as well as many of the posters on this board, I must say that it is time for everyone to relax. And when you discuss or review the game, speak (or type) rationally. I find it ridiculious the bashing being done by the people who run this site and the members of this board on JP Losman. yea yea yea, bash me b/c my screen name is JPL7 blah blah blah. Instead of flaming away at that, respond to the content on my post. First: Do I think JP had a great game? Absolutely not! He was terrible in the first half. He looked inconsistent and inaccurate. But hey folks, newsflash, that is going to happen to someone who is basically a first or second year starter (depending on how you look at it). Some of the blame should absolutely fall on JP. But also on the lines abysmal play as well as the playcalling. It took Jaroun and Co. 3 quarters to get things straightened out. By then, too little, too late. I found it funny that on the Bills Daily review and grades, they made it a point too mention the "overthrow" on the bomb too Andre Davis. It was literally 6 inches from his fingers roughly 50 yards down field. So on a 50 yard throw he was about 6 inces off?? Yea that is terrible isnt it? And by the way, had Davis not slowed himself down by turning back to early on the route, that ball would have been damn near perfect. So hey BD reviewer.... SHUT UP about that already. Also the fumble was mentioned twice also. If stupid Gandy wasn't a turnstile dressed in a Bills uniform, JP would not have been clocked from the blindside like he was and would not have fumbled. What do you expect is going to happen when you get hit from the blindside???? Name a time when a QB gets drilled from the back and actually holds on too it? I'd love to see it!! And is it fair to say that the playcalling was terrible right up until the 4th? I have been saying all year and particularly this game, that our best bet is the short and intermediate range passes (12 yards deep and in) to keep the chains moving. With a few deep bombs here and there to capitalize on our speed and JP's arm strength and to keep the defense honest. But this 15 and 20 yard nonsense is not going to get it done. Not with this O-Line, sorry folks. The WR's do not have enough time to let there routes develop that far down the field, before JP gets sacked. And let me make it clear there were a few times you can say that JP held the ball a little long. But that is what good coverage will make you do. Is nobody else aware of that? For the most part I think JP's natural characteristic is to get the ball off quick (sometimes too quick). As if he is trying to hard to make something happen or force a play that hasnt developed yet. Though in my opinion he has improved on that this season compared to his previous stints. Anyhow my point is, to throw all this blame on JP for miniscule nonsense is just ridiculious. Again, he certainly doesnt go blameless. But lets give credit (good or bad) where credit is due. The line stinking (Gandy in particular) and the playcalling being awful can really do a young QB in. We all have to be aware of the fact that JP isnt going to be perfect and will have his fair shares of ups and downs. Its just part of the maturation process. Remember that!! This team is on the right track, though of course some improvements need to be made. So all I'm saying is, everyone chill out a bit and be fair and just to this team, its players and its coaching staff. Dont blame too little or too much any of these wins or losses on anyone one facet of our franchise. OK im done, flame away if you wish!! 805743[/snapback] Many people on this board have [played/watched carefully football for 20,30, 40 plus years.We know when a QB has a good or a bad game and we understand the nuances and the subtleties of QB play. We dont need simplistic excuses for poor play.--This team is not at all on the right track. We are weak on the O and D lines and weak at QB. We are way way off the right track.--Marv made a decent pick in Whitner and in simpson also---but we let Linaert pass. Perhaps Marv didnt see any D line talent in the draft--and figured we should get what we need...OK--fair enough. But he better work like a maniac the next 2 years to shore up our lines and get the QB situation corrected---or we arent gonna see a top team here in marvs lifetime.
Dibs Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Many people on this board have [played/watched carefully football for 20,30, 40 plus years.We know when a QB has a good or a bad game and we understand the nuances and the subtleties of QB play.We dont need simplistic excuses for poor play.... 806725[/snapback] Great, so you would agree that JP should cop no heat for the Davis drop. If, as JPL7 says, on Bills Daily review it says JP 'overthrew' the pass, those with 20-40+ years experience in such things would all agree that the article writer made an obvious error in the assessment on that play. I believe that basically that is the crux of what JPL7 was getting at......that YES JP made errors in the game but to blame everything that went wrong around him on him is not logical. IMO, just because you spend energy & effort or you have many years experience does not mean you are automatically correct.
The Avenger Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 whoa there big guy, have a calm down! i dont need to get over myself, b/c i am not looking down at anyone or acting as if im better then them, not in the least. you have taken what i said a bit to the extreme. im not bashing bills daily or its staff. in fact i love this site and respect the opinion they express. I just find it ridiculious when ppl over/under react to situations and then state there opinion without thinking clearly first. if someone doesnt agree with me, that is A-OK. I absolutely respect others poinion when they are informed and have clear reason for why they believe what they believe (and this is my view on all topics, not just about the bills or sports). But the reaction that Bills fans have had over the last couple weeks about the teams performance and JP's in particular has been overkill. I just found it a bit nitpicky that they made it a point to mention the fumble and the "overthrow". As if they were blowing it up more then it needed. That is all I was saying, so relax man and dont jump down my throat. I'll respect what you or anyone else has to say if you make a clear definitive point. And by the way, I know what its like to run a web site. I did for 3 years previously and am working on another one currently. So I know the detail, time and effort it takes to maintain a site day by day. Umm yes actually I dont think it is too much to ask of someone to think rationally before they open up their mouth. If society in general did more of that, I think the world would be a little better off. If their viewpoints do not match mine, like i said before, no problem here, just dont spout off some nonsense without thinking. I think that is plenty fair. 806706[/snapback] You have a very warped sense of what is "rational" and what isn't. You blast Bills Daily for their grades and think that they are irrational, and as best I can tell you base that on not agreing with them. I'd say you had a point about someone being irrational in their opinions if they had said that JP should be traded, Jauron should be fired, or the team should purposely lose their remaining games to get a better draft pick - that's irrational. I don't think that giving JP a bad grade for his performance or pointing out that he overthrew a deep pass is irrational at all - those are pretty much facts as I see them. I've got a problem when you read the grades and accuse Bills Daily of being irrational - they're not at all.
Dibs Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 You have a very warped sense of what is "rational" and what isn't. You blast Bills Daily for their grades and think that they are irrational, and as best I can tell you base that on not agreing with them. I'd say you had a point about someone being irrational in their opinions if they had said that JP should be traded, Jauron should be fired, or the team should purposely lose their remaining games to get a better draft pick - that's irrational. I don't think that giving JP a bad grade for his performance or pointing out that he overthrew a deep pass is irrational at all - those are pretty much facts as I see them. I've got a problem when you read the grades and accuse Bills Daily of being irrational - they're not at all. 807251[/snapback] No he didn't.....I think you may have misread what JPL7 wrote because you are attacking him for things he didn't say. He was referring to their irrational comments inside the 'grades' link.....not the grades that they gave in the link. Re-read it & you'll see....
JPL7 Posted October 17, 2006 Author Posted October 17, 2006 Props to Dibs for reading what I had to say for what it truly meant. Not over reacting and getting homer on me like appearently The Avenger has. Look i love bills daily a ton, i cant express that enough, but Avenger you seem to have some over the top affection for the site and/or its staff. i dont know if you are apart of the staff or are close with someone who is or what, but really lets relax a bit here. instead of blowing up on me about it, just take exactly what i said for as is, no more, no less. i believe i am being very clear and completely rational in my statements. so no sir u are incorrect, i do not have a "warped sense of rational means". i believe it is clear that i have a firm grasp on just what "rational" means.
JPL7 Posted October 17, 2006 Author Posted October 17, 2006 oh and by the way i never even mentioned anything about the grades themselves. i made a point regarding the reasoning for the grades and the irrational thought behind it. you can tell while reading the article that the emotion of losing that game the way we did is weighing heavily in the way they describe JP's performance. the "overthrow", the fumble, etc. thats all im saying!
Tcali Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Great, so you would agree that JP should cop no heat for the Davis drop. If, as JPL7 says, on Bills Daily review it says JP 'overthrew' the pass, those with 20-40+ years experience in such things would all agree that the article writer made an obvious error in the assessment on that play. I believe that basically that is the crux of what JPL7 was getting at......that YES JP made errors in the game but to blame everything that went wrong around him on him is not logical. IMO, just because you spend energy & effort or you have many years experience does not mean you are automatically correct. 807088[/snapback] ???????--Did I pick out a few specific things and blame it on JP??...No.Of course I didnt. I looked at the overall play. You just dont get it do you??
Dibs Posted October 18, 2006 Posted October 18, 2006 ???????--Did I pick out a few specific things and blame it on JP??...No.Of course I didnt. I looked at the overall play. You just dont get it do you?? 808294[/snapback] Did I say you did? It was not me who doesn't get it....I agree with what you wrote "We dont need simplistic excuses for poor play". The original post is a different issue....."We don't need the errors of those around JPL to be counted as his errors when he is assessed."(summarizing) The 2 points are not mutually exclusive to each other. They are both valid & since you never addressed the issue that the post you responded to was addressing, I called you out on your opinion on it. It was you who did not get it. Try responding to the points made rather than assuming everyone else is an idiot. Not everybody here at TSW are single-minded morons.
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