daquixers_is_back Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Solution: Start someone else. Anyone else. It can't get worse. Hell, change the scheme while you're at it. Whatever they're doing, its not working. We just made the Lions look like a playoff team. 805399[/snapback] Clements only gave up 1 pass in the Lions game .... McGee was getting torched. Holy cow. Im done with this thread. My head is going to implode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patience Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Mark it down. Freeney WILL be signed. 805401[/snapback] They probably will, I just don't see how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Clements is a good corner but he is not worth the money we are paying to him. He should be doing a better job out there thats right I said BETTER. He makes tackles and thats fine but if I'm going ti pay a corner that much he better avg. more than 1 int per 11 games(which is what he's done the past two seasons). Who is he shutting down really that earns him 8 mil a year? We have given up quite a few passing yards this year if no ones noticed. While our offense hasn't scored 3 TD's in a game since the Miami debacle. I'd rather take my chance w/out Nate "The Playmaker" Clements and spend some money on improving our O-Line. The only people on this team worth defending are Fletcher, Moorman and Evans everyone else is suspect. Don't get me wrong I'm a Jp supporter as well as a fan of Mcgahee but I would like to see someone step-up and EARN their pay because the last two games have been really bad. I LOVE my Bills and will live and die with this team no matter what but I'm starting to get weary of seeing other teams PLAYMAKERS and FRANCHISE PLAYERS step it up. When are our guys going to step it up? It's been 7 years. I hate reading negitave posts and I hate writing them even more but just because we "beat" Miami and Min. don't mean jack. I guess I'm just tired of defending some of these player like Clements and I don't understand why some continue to pretend that we are "better then our stats" or "better then our record sugests". We're not!! and as soon as our powers that be relize this the better. Like I said before I will live and die with this team and I hope that we continue..Ahem START to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis in NC Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 They need to knock him off the line of scrimage - like Greer didin the first quarter. 804676[/snapback] Exactly! Did that play work only because Williams was running a diagonal route? I was wondering why not chuck this guy every play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Exactly! Did that play work only because Williams was running a diagonal route? I was wondering why not chuck this guy every play? 805463[/snapback] It's not a part of the scheme. (Sadly, this post is not as facetious as I would like it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Certainly won't be better but I don't think it would make a huge difference. I'd like to take that money and get a real offensive or defensive tackle. 804696[/snapback] How about one of each and a guard too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Clements only gave up 1 pass in the Lions game .... McGee was getting torched. Holy cow. Im done with this thread. My head is going to implode. 805404[/snapback] OK. just fast forwarded through the game. And giving up one pass is a bit of a stretch. I counted 2 tackles (one after the first down) and 2 passes defensed (however, technically, he didn't break either one up) and 3 passes against. Certainly, McGee got worked over quite a bit more. But, for a playmaker, where's all of Clements great plays? In general, the Lions just took it to our Defense. And, Clements did little to help. Add that to the poor run defense and continual burn of McGee and the Lions are headed to the playoffs. 1st Q: 1st series 2-7. Clements bites on pump fake. 20 yd completion to R. Williams. 2nd Q: 4th series 3-4 R. Williams run past Clements. Completion 18 yds. 1-10 R. Williams runs past him again. Dropped pass at 10yd line. 5th Series 1-10 R. Williams catch for 8 yds. Clements too far off in coverage. 3rd Q: 9th Series 1-10 Clements makes a tackle, coming off his guy. 4th Q: 9th Series 2-7 Clements makes tackle after first down. 10th Series 1-10 R. Williams catch for 18 yds in front of Clements. 1-10 Clements covering R. Williams. KO intercepts it at the 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 OK. just fast forwarded through the game. And giving up one pass is a bit of a stretch. I counted 2 tackles (one after the first down) and 2 passes defensed (however, technically, he didn't break either one up) and 3 passes against. Certainly, McGee got worked over quite a bit more. But, for a playmaker, where's all of Clements great plays? In general, the Lions just took it to our Defense. And, Clements did little to help. Add that to the poor run defense and continual burn of McGee and the Lions are headed to the playoffs. 1st Q: 1st series 2-7. Clements bites on pump fake. 20 yd completion to R. Williams. 2nd Q: 4th series 3-4 R. Williams run past Clements. Completion 18 yds. 1-10 R. Williams runs past him again. Dropped pass at 10yd line. 5th Series 1-10 R. Williams catch for 8 yds. Clements too far off in coverage. 3rd Q: 9th Series 1-10 Clements makes a tackle, coming off his guy. 4th Q: 9th Series 2-7 Clements makes tackle after first down. 10th Series 1-10 R. Williams catch for 18 yds in front of Clements. 1-10 Clements covering R. Williams. KO intercepts it at the 3. 805528[/snapback] The funny part is that you actually thought you would fool us. Thank-fully I have TIVO also ... 1st series: Clements stuck with him after the fake, but was pushed off before Williams made the catch. Many posters on this board wanted a penalty on Williams on that play. 2nd Q 4th and 5th series: THEY ARE PLAYING IN ZONE COVERAGE! This is also the drive close to where Furrey split the zone and caught a pass within 2 minutes left and then Williams split the zone and caught the TD pass. Then Clements makes some tackles (as you showed) and covers his receiver allowing an underthrown pass to be INT'ed by KO ... As I said .. he gave up maybe 2 passes. Solid game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 I posted what happened, not what I thought would fool, nor did I try to "interpret" what was happening. But, lets for a moment: On the first catch, yes, Williams pushed; but because Clements bit on the fake, he was out of position and therefore rather than a push all it really took was a slight nudge to "throw" him 10 yds off the play. 4th series 3-4 R. Williams run past Clements. Completion 18 yds. Zone or not, Williams ran right past him, Clements turned to pursue and the catch was made with Clements the only Bill within the area of the pass. Call it what you want, but he gave up a pass there. 10th Series 1-10 R. Williams catch for 18 yds in front of Clements. Williams runs and cuts in front of Clements - catches the ball. How is that not a catch against Clements? Look, Clements clearly gave up more than 1 pass. He also, didn't single handedly give the game away either. All I'm saying is that this guy wants $7mil/yr and he's not palying like a shut down corner and getting interceptions. So, why pay him like he is? If he wants to stay for a reasonable salary, I'm all for it. But, why spend top money for an average CB when we need to spend it on the lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep2Moulds46 Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 The only thing elite about Nate Clements is his rating in Madden. Other than that, he is just another guy playing a position the experts still dont know how to rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 I posted what happened, not what I thought would fool, nor did I try to "interpret" what was happening. But, lets for a moment: On the first catch, yes, Williams pushed; but because Clements bit on the fake, he was out of position and therefore rather than a push all it really took was a slight nudge to "throw" him 10 yds off the play. 4th series 3-4 R. Williams run past Clements. Completion 18 yds. Zone or not, Williams ran right past him, Clements turned to pursue and the catch was made with Clements the only Bill within the area of the pass. Call it what you want, but he gave up a pass there. 10th Series 1-10 R. Williams catch for 18 yds in front of Clements. Williams runs and cuts in front of Clements - catches the ball. How is that not a catch against Clements? Look, Clements clearly gave up more than 1 pass. He also, didn't single handedly give the game away either. All I'm saying is that this guy wants $7mil/yr and he's not palying like a shut down corner and getting interceptions. So, why pay him like he is? If he wants to stay for a reasonable salary, I'm all for it. But, why spend top money for an average CB when we need to spend it on the lines. 805582[/snapback] OK so he had 2 catches ... now see how many Bailey gives up tonight. I bet he gives up 2 or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolly Posted October 15, 2006 Author Share Posted October 15, 2006 OK, so when I made this thread, I was wondering why mcgee was covering roy willliams and not clements. The logical answer is that the coaches feel mcgee is better suited to cover him (which he sucked but who knows how clements would have done). Bottom line, the guy is our highest paid player and has had something like 2 picks in 22 games. That is ridiculous. It's not enough for a "#1 corner" to just "cover guys" well. He needs to pick some balls or force some fumbles. I think we can all agree that turnovers are often what wins games, and our franchise cornerback contributes nothing to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolly Posted October 15, 2006 Author Share Posted October 15, 2006 OK so he had 2 catches ... now see how many Bailey gives up tonight. I bet he gives up 2 or more. 805613[/snapback] Bailey also made a pick last week that arguably won denver the game. THAT is a #1 cornerback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 OK so he had 2 catches ... now see how many Bailey gives up tonight. I bet he gives up 2 or more. 805613[/snapback] By my count, he was thrown to 5 times and gave up 3 passes (but, for the sake of arguement I'll say he gave up 2). So, that's 50%. Now why is he worth top 5 money? I've never said he wasn't an adequate corner, I'm just saying he's not the best in the league and therefore shouldn't be paid as such. And I agree, Champ does give up a few passes, but he seems to atone with a key interception, as well. Where's Nate's interceptions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Where's Nate's interceptions? 805630[/snapback] Where's a bawling Ray Lucas when Nate needs him? Where's a limping Dante Culpepper when our Defense needs him? Every team we play should be required to sign either of these guys the week before we play them. Roger Goodell, make it so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCBongo Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Watch how our team is without him 804689[/snapback] Oh lord, can it get worse? I mean the back to back 2-14 sucked - are we talking that flavor of bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunTheBall Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 We should have kept Winfield. Many thought he was expendable because he wasn't making picks (Nate was at the time) but he's clearly a better corner than the "Playmaker". Every time I see nate wiff on a tackle I think of how we crapped the bed by not signing Antoine. RTB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 By my count, he was thrown to 5 times and gave up 3 passes (but, for the sake of arguement I'll say he gave up 2). So, that's 50%. Now why is he worth top 5 money? I've never said he wasn't an adequate corner, I'm just saying he's not the best in the league and therefore shouldn't be paid as such. And I agree, Champ does give up a few passes, but he seems to atone with a key interception, as well. Where's Nate's interceptions? 805630[/snapback] Are you serious? Dude, the best CB's are the one's who arent thrown to more than 3-5 times a game. The reason they only threw 5 balls at him is probably because he was blanketing his receiver. I dont know because I wasnt at the game, but thats common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Bailey also made a pick last week that arguably won denver the game. THAT is a #1 cornerback. 805629[/snapback] Because he made an interception? Give me a break. Nate has tipped the ball into the air before and our our DB's cant catch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Are you serious? Dude, the best CB's are the one's who arent thrown to more than 3-5 times a game. The reason they only threw 5 balls at him is probably because he was blanketing his receiver. I dont know because I wasnt at the game, but thats common sense. 805818[/snapback] You're right. Nate is by far the best player on our team and easily the best cornerback in the league. The only question is will Marv be awake enough to pay him the $7-$8 mill/yr he wants for the priviledge of letting us see Nate school the league's best receivers. I'm not sure how I could ever think Nate was average. He clearly is so good, opposing teams shudder in fear of even getting near his side of the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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