My case for starting Losman...whether it

[buckeyemike]

Two words why we should start Losman asap: Drew Bledsoe

58002[/snapback]

 

and two words why you shouldn't: Tim Couch.

 

Mike

[Paco]

As i have noted a few times, i tend to post to think these things through for myself and though i love the feedback and ideas from folks reading them, i do often post for my own head.

 

As it has always been...so shall it always be.

 

As it turns out, Barry, some of us read everything you write, regardless how long it is. For as long as you've been on this board, your posts have always been lengthy, but always...always...of value. Why anyone would find it necessary to tell you how to post is beyond me. Valuable posts should always be welcome here, regardless of length. If you were blabbering about nothing all the time...then yes, Cliff Notes would be appropriate.

[Guest Freshman English Professor]

As it has always been...so shall it always be.

 

As it turns out, Barry, some of us read everything you write, regardless how long it is. For as long as you've been on this board, your posts have always been lengthy, but always...always...of value. Why anyone would find it necessary to tell you how to post is beyond me. Valuable posts should always be welcome here, regardless of length. If you were blabbering about nothing all the time...then yes, Cliff Notes would be appropriate.

58309[/snapback]

 

At least I got paid to read his shiite, Taco.

[Paco]

At least I got paid to read his shiite, Taco.

58404[/snapback]

Taco? Is that a racial slur? Cuz my name is Paco? So I must be a Mexican, which means I must be an illegal Mexican, which must mean I sell TACOs from the side of a truck to earn some money? Is that what you're implying?

 

You should know that we Mexicans have a long and rich heritage that has spread tremendous culture into America. Our food. Our pottery. Our music. We mean a lot to this country.

 

Unlike those fuggin' backwoods morons.

[seq004]

I'm on board as agreeing 100%. Please anything to breath fresh air into a pathetic offense. I think JP while he will not be as accurate as Drew he will be able to avoid the rush and the Blitz and that's more important to a team that has a horrible offensive line.

[seq004]

and two words why you shouldn't:  Tim Couch.

 

Mike

58280[/snapback]

Two words why you should: Peyton Manning

[ExiledInIllinois]

Two words why you should: Peyton Manning

58420[/snapback]

 

That's where Fake makes the argument.

 

I assume Peyton's mechanics where there? Right?

 

It is clear that JP's aren't. He could be learning a lot of a nasty habits that will be hard to break.

 

Drew was one such example. Didn't they throw him to the wolves early?

 

DB has got to be the only one that could survive out there game after game and not get hurt behind this line. Of course this is his number one asset.

 

"Houston we have a problem!"

[John from Riverside]

Taco? Is that a racial slur? Cuz my name is Paco? So I must be a Mexican, which means I must be an illegal Mexican, which must mean I sell TACOs from the side of a truck to earn some money? Is that what you're implying?

 

You should know that we Mexicans have a long and rich heritage that has spread tremendous culture into America. Our food. Our pottery. Our music. We mean a lot to this country.

 

Unlike those fuggin' backwoods morons.

58408[/snapback]

 

 

Just for the record Paco.....I thank the heavens for my wife and mexican food....even though I eat too much of it....

[seq004]

That's where Fake makes the argument.

 

I assume Peyton's mechanics where there? Right?

 

It is clear that JP's aren't.  He could be learning a lot of a nasty habits that will be hard to break.

 

Drew was one such example.  Didn't they throw him to the wolves early?

 

DB has got to be the only one that could survive out there game after game and not get hurt behind this line.  Of course this is his number one asset.

 

"Houston we have a problem!"

58443[/snapback]

No, is mechanics where not right and he threw a lot of int's but he said he is so happy that he was thrown into the fire instead of standing on the sideline learning nothing

[DeeRay]

John, Glad that you have had an epiphany and agree to what you didn't agree with last week regardsing Losman. That's OK... you are allowed to flip - flop because you're not running for president. I welcome you to the dump Drew club.

[Fan in San Diego]

The second he is ready he should be starting. We need his scranbling abilities to help out this OL by avoiding the rush.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

first do you really think that what applies to PM given his skills as a rookie and what apoplies to JP given his skills is a direct correlaton and makes an argument for developing Losman the same way

 

Second do you really think you learn nothing sitting on the sideline your first year given the experiences of tow more recent NFL rookie qbs Pennington and vick who sat out their first year for the most part and led their teams to the playoffs their second years

 

My sense is that though it would be silly to say simply because PM bennifitted one must do things the same way with jp there are lessons to be learned here However the lessons point toward JP developing best from focusing on watching offenses from above and consulting directly with wyche on what he is seeing and spending time in practice working on his mechanics

 

As a rookie PM already had the instincts to read offenses and the smarts of sitting at his Archies knee that Losman needs to develop and can get from Wyche sitting PM has never been the athlete a VIcK OR even a JP is in escapability and benefitted from playing at NFL speeds>

 

JP is no Vick _ is anyone_ but he strikes me as someone whose real development needs are much more like the classroom needs of Vick rather than the onfield needs of PM In a perfect world one would do both< but as Kyle Boller found just as you gain things playing at NFL speeds you never could get from sitting and watching you also gain things from sitting and watching without the essential distraction of preparing yourself to play that you cannot get from carrying the clipboard as potential backup or playing and running for your life

 

By far it appears to me that Losman will develop into a better qb for the Bills in the longrun and maybe even next year by sitting and learning this year and perfecting his mechanics in practice with wyche

 

No, is mechanics where not right and he threw a lot of int's but he said he is so happy that he was thrown into the fire instead of standing on the sideline learning nothing

58855[/snapback]

[John from Riverside]

John, Glad that you have had an epiphany and agree to what you didn't agree with last week regardsing Losman.  That's OK... you are allowed to flip - flop because you're not running for president.  I welcome you to the dump Drew club.

58884[/snapback]

 

I will admit it when I am wrong.....and I was....

 

Actually...with my luck now that I am off the Bledsoe bandwagon....he will start playing like a probowler again....

 

SO THERE YOU GO....PROVE ME WRONG DREW

[stuckincincy]

and two words why you shouldn't:  Tim Couch.

 

Mike

58280[/snapback]

 

I read this AM in my n'paper that Couch is pursuing an injury settlement with GB. I knew his throwing arm got banged up in preseason.

 

I'm a Couch fan, myself. He went through Bengal-like experiences in his years with CLE, IMO.

 

Granted, a few roookie qb's get thrown to the wolves and survive. But for every Marino there are dozens of David Klinglers and Akili Smiths.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

That's where Fake makes the argument.

 

I assume Peyton's mechanics where there? Right?

 

It is clear that JP's aren't.  He could be learning a lot of a nasty habits that will be hard to break.

 

Drew was one such example.  Didn't they throw him to the wolves early?

 

DB has got to be the only one that could survive out there game after game and not get hurt behind this line.  Of course this is his number one asset.

 

"Houston we have a problem!"

58443[/snapback]

 

The Peyton argument is actually the reason why JP needs to focus on off the field lessons first and if he gets those or at least the responsiblity of playing real football does not take precedence over his big need to learn the game and to work on his mechanics then and only then should he focus on learning to play against NFL speed opponents and the other items which only come from playing.

 

My meory is that when Manning came up, he did somethings extraordinarily well:

 

The quick release was already there.

The ability to understand and anticipate the right NFL offensive moves was already there from growing up in Archie's family.

I don't remember there being any big issue with his mechanics like throwing off the wrong foot or doing things differently almost everytime.

 

These were critical because the quick release minimized his chances for injury, the early ability to be a coach meant that his classroom needs were minimal. He did not need to work through his own mechanics in order to build chemistry with his teammates.

 

Manning really profited from playing because he still was not a good enough QB to win an NFL game because he needed to play against better opponents as his physical athleticism did not and really would never be better than his opponents. By playing the game Manning worked on the things he needed to work on to become a quality NFL QB. Alll rookies need BOTH the classroom and the playtime to improve, but Manning already had the smarts on the game from growing up in the Manning household and I remeber there being no big mechnical issue and the stuff you only get playing was his primary need.

 

Losman on the other hand brings a number of great skill to the game. His leadership ability as a cocky kid and an athleticism that allows him to play like a linebacker in a QBs body are exceptional. He will need to step it up a notcj plus like all college boys to play at NFL speeds, but this is not his primary issue.

 

His primary issues appear to be:

 

1. He played in a freelance offense if not by design certainly by performance as his blocking routinely broke down and he and the offense would make plays on the fly. He will need to learn the rigid NFL style in away that it becomes second nature to him. he will need to throw the same way everytime because in the over-systematized NFL that is ehat the O is designed to do.

2. He does have an identified issue with his mechanics as he became used to throwing however he deemed necessary. This led to him occaisionally throwing off the wrong foot and other issues which do not maximize the use of his ability. You get away with it in college and maybe even throw a TD. You get killed in the pros.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think JP needs and will benefit greatly from playing the game. The chemistry he buiilds with Evans and others will make him far more productive. However, first things first because being human he almost certainly won't do everything.

 

From what I see and here, Losman will develop into the best QB he can be by focusing his time and attention on practicing without the pressure to freelance of throwing the ball the the same way every time and getting down his mechanics. He will profit most from watching film and breaking down goffenses with Wyche to get him as close as he can be to the Jim Kelly mark of being a coach on the field.

 

I doubt seriously he is at that point yet. I would much rather see Losman as our disaster QB worrying about hitting the books and throwing a million passes focusing on his arm motion than having him worry about opponents hitting him and worrying about the motions Lee Evans takes running routes. I know folks are disappointed in (or hate Drew) but letting this drive your desire to see JP play is almost certainly counter to his development.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Your probably right but, would it really hurt to get the kid some experience?

And, you mention how Rookie quarterbacks don't win games. Look at Ben Roethlisberger, he is now 2-0 as a starter.

59577[/snapback]

 

 

Maybe it will hurt his development maybe not. If he ends up focusing more on being a leader of men because he is going to play than focusing on making throws that maximize his talent and being able to anticipate and understand Xs and Os he probably will be using the wrong priority.

 

If he is the next Joe Montana it probably won't hurt him as he will be able to do both even with the wrong priority. However, if he is a normal person taking the wrong focus and not doing first things first will hurt him.

 

The smart bet sees to me to have be our disaster QB at most and it may turn out that this injury proves to be the best thing that could have happened to his development if it means that he has spent most of his time the last 4 weeks and the next four weeks with Sam Wyche rather than spending it with Lee Evans.