If you were the owner what upgrades would you ...

[daquixers_is_back]

I would be very against a downtown stadium for the exact reasons you stated.  I went to a Carolina Panthers game once and the tailgating was almost non existent.  The little tailgating I did see, I'm not sure would even be considered tailgating because it was so pathetic.  I dont really like to be surrounded by tall buildings and an urban environment before I go to a football game.  How about putting a new stadium half way between Buffalo and Rochester. .. But in all seriousness, people that want to have a stadium downtown need to go to another NFL stadium that has a similar set up.  I bet most would NOT like it at all.

801684[/snapback]

 

Absolutely right. I went to a Minnesota Vikings game and I was appalled. People were just parking on the streets or in ramps and then walking to the game. There was no smell of barbeque or food, no busses, no footballs being thrown around ... nothing. It was like going to be a baseball game. Trust us everyone. It is NOT the type of thing you want. I agree, on the putting a stadium halfway between Rochester and Buffalo. Lets admit it - atleast 30% of the people who to a Bills game live either in Rochester or Syracuse and another 10% probably come from Toronto.

 

 

I get the fact that tailgating is an important part of the game experience, yet having a downtown stadium, you encourage development around the stadium.  I could see myself having a couple of beers and a meal at a local pub, then going to the stadium, rather than grilling in the parking lot.

 

HSBC not withstanding...

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Read what I wrote above. It just takes the atmosphere and fun out of it.

[GhostsOfTheRockpile]

Outside of the Outer Harbor, where in gods name do you "build it downtown" people want to put a football stadium and the THOUSANDS of parking spaces needed to accompany it?

 

Here's a fun little exercise. Head over to Google Maps, and type in the name of any city that has built a new stadium recently. Cut out a little piece of paper that fits perfectly over the stadium and the lots surrounding it.

 

Now take that piece of paper and click over to a map of Buffalo. Again, outside of the Outer Harbor, find me one plot of land that would even come close to holding a stadium without forcing massive infrastructure changes (i.e. Buffalo's own version of the Big Dig). There is NO room East of Pilot Field. Not to mention the infrastructure would be VERY thin (even if people would rather frequent local establishments over tailgating, they gotta park SOMEWHERE). On top of that, if you think it gets cold and windy in Orchard Park, try playing on the windward side of Lake Erie/the Outer Harbor/ LaSalle Park/downtown in December. Even diehards would skip a game or two due to the weather... and it would necessitate a dome.

 

It isn't going to happen, nor should it. The success of the Bills as a franchise is dependent on being a regional team. As such, they should make it easier for those from Rochester and points East, as well as Ontario and points North, to make it to games.

 

The ideal location for a new stadium (which is what they SHOULD build, rather than pump $20 million or so into the old one) is in Lancaster, closer to Rochester, right off the I-90... think Lancaster "Speedway" area. Not only does a LARGE portion of ticket holders already come from that area, you encourage those fans sitting on the fence who hate having to leave their homes at 9 am every Sunday, and who get home around 7 pm (not to mention those on the fence may very well include the kind who would buy suites or club level seats... which the Bills could always use more of).

 

If not, build right next to the current stadium. The infrastructure already exists.

 

And for those of you who think they can not only build downtown, but build a little village with malls and condos around it... what on god's green earth are you smoking?

[Pyrite Gal]

i am a little suprised at the support for building something downtown.

do you really think for 8 - 12 games a year it will make that much of an impact?

 

i am not against it, just trying to get your point of view.

800764[/snapback]

 

Personally, from what I have seen of the various examples and studies out there, if I had several hundred million laying around and economic development for the community was my general goal, building a sports stadium (particularly a few event venue like an NFL stadium) would not be my first choice for investment.

 

However, life is relative. The choice is not between making a perfect investment with a bunch of bucks we have in hand. The choice is between the potential opportunities to pull together Other People's Money (money from non-WNY taxpayers) to build something or to simply muddle along as we WNY taxpaers are currently doing investing out own resources in an generally unplanned and uncoordinated manner to foster redevelopment of the central city, Buffalo, in WNY.

 

The real opportuinity for WNY taxpayers here is that a new stadium for the Bills presents an opportunity for Ralph to stick the entire state up for investment in paying off the loan to create a sports authority which would be funded by bonds paid off in the long run by the entire state population.

 

This authority could build a new stadium downtown which uses the ample beautifully situated and underutilized lands on the Lake Erie waterfront downtown to build not only a football stadium designed for state of the art good play and viewing, but I think tailgating and public gathering as a central feature of its design.

 

Would a new Bills stadium downtown kill tailgating for the Bills as we know it?

 

Yep.

 

Would a news Bills stadium downtown kill tailgating for the Bills?

 

Nope. Not if the design is intelligent.

 

In fact, I think intelligent design of a new sports facility for the NFL in this community would emphasize creating accessible public space where fans could lay out their tailgates in an orderly fashion and tailgate to their hearts content aided by the buying opportunities they choose from the NFL and the Sports authority and not having buying opportunities forced down their throat by over control of the site by the NFL and the Bills.

 

My sense would be that a Sports Authority would want to plan a new stadium for the Bills to built in conjunction with existing and already planned downtown Buffalo sports and recreation venues such as HSBC Arena, Dunn Tire Park, the new Bass Pro Shop scheduled for the Aud space, and the new Seneca Casino to be built in the Cobblstone district.

 

While I think some of the existing efforts are old and silly or new and silly, the fact is they exist and it would be even sillier to pretend they do not and not take advantage of any synergies to be had.

 

i would also though attempt to add some things to add value to this effort and to attempt to make up for one of the primary failings of an NFL stadium as a venue in that we simply are not talking many dates for use.

 

My personal favorite would be to build a site nuit by an authority floating a bond to pay for it for an institution that rivals the Cleveland Rock andRoll Hall of Fame which would be a Sportsfan Hall of Fame. Each year, the NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL and some selection of individual sports with NASCAR and the PGA being my first thoughts would get to select on sports fan that enbodies their sport who would be inducted into the HOF.

 

These initial sports can develop some standard objective criteria for adding additional sports to their ranks. This insititution would be marketed as a major tourist attraction and pay homage to the sports fan who makes this all possible and worthwhile. The Authority would fund and own the institution, but the attempt woyuld be made to have this institution fund itself by extortubng money to get a cut from each of the major sports leagues, selling commerical tie-ins, ticket sales etc. ot something like that.

 

In general, i think public money should go for public things and not to line thepockets of a for-profit activity like the Ralph and the Bills. However, it is clear from the last go round as the Bills stuck up Erie County for big bucks to get them to stay in Buffalo, that this type of corporate welfare is going to happen.

 

We are not in a position to argue over whether we are prostitutes or not to the private sector, we really are only in a position to negotiate over how much we get paid for a roll in the hay.

 

In general, it makes more economic sense for WNY to invest in other economic development strategies besides a sports team and venue. However, in this case, Ralph seems happy to join with WNY to stick up non-WNY residents in NYS to get investment here, and if we can do this in a way that builds a tourist attraction which brings in people from other states with their nickels and also sells things to the private sector for advertising, setting up a sports authority can work out to be a very good deal for WNY.

[gobillsinytown]

That's my GF wearing my whitner 36 jersey and heels...we split an 18 pack and were taking pictures....

800767[/snapback]

 

 

You must be VERY proud. Don't feel threatened by this because I'm an old man:

That's one good lookin' woman! And of course, the jersey is icing on the cake.

[GhostsOfTheRockpile]

I'm still waiting for someone to propose a site downtown where a stadium would fit. Read my post above... try the Google experiment... outside of the Outer Harbor (where the weather conditions would NECESSITATE A DOME), there is NOT ONE PARCEL large enough to build upon in the City of Buffalo. Unless, of course, you want to destroy entire city blocks and displace a few thousand residents... and if you do, good luck with that decade's worth of lawsuits

 

Second, football stadiums do ZERO for economic development of the surrounding communtiy. At most they are used what... 20 times a year in a big city? Eight home games, two preseason games and a few concerts? In Buffalo, probably much less. They are a waste of space and money in an urban setting. If you built one with a roof so that the structure could double as a convention center, that would be a whole 'nother ballgame. But any open air stadium in downtown Buffalo is a complete waste of space (which, if you'll take ten seconds to check, there is none of to begin with), and both will and should never get done.

 

The best place for a new stadium is between Pembroke and Batavia (which would give new meaning to the "Batavia Party Zone"). If not, somewhere in Lancaster close to the I-90. Last ditch, right next to The Ralph.

[BILLS02138]

I'm still waiting for someone to propose a site downtown where a stadium would fit.  Read my post above... try the Google experiment... outside of the Outer Harbor (where the weather conditions would NECESSITATE A DOME), there is NOT ONE PARCEL large enough to build upon in the City of Buffalo.  Unless, of course, you want to destroy entire city blocks and displace a few thousand residents... and if you do, good luck with that decade's worth of lawsuits

802935[/snapback]

 

 

Build a combo Stadium/Convention Center behind the HSBC Atrium building along the 190/Cobblestone district. Yes, bury the 190, let the city reconnect to its waterfront and make it happen. Don't talk to me about money in NY State. You pay enough fricking taxes. Heck, I'd even support the toll at the 190 if it were going to BURY the fricking eyesore.

 

You're right - a stand alone stadium does zero for economic development - but add a convention center to the mix and we might have a powerful economic development tool.

 

Heck, we don't even need to spend money on plans when we can just borrow the plans from the proposed NY Jets Westside Stadium/Convention Center.

 

However, if the Bills do build a new stadium AND it's not downtown - then I propose building it in Orchard Park. Don't get me wrong; I appreciate the support from Rochester AND Toronto. But why build all new infrastructure in Lancaster or Pembroke?

 

As someone who currently lives in Boston and frequents Gillette Stadium for Pat/Revolution games - traffic is ---> one way in AND one way out. It takes HOURS to get to and from a game in Foxhole. I fear that we would have that same problem in Pembroke or a different un-urban location.

 

So, bottom line kids - if you think the BILLS will stay in Buffalo after a new owner comes in and DOESN'T demand a new stadium - you're all dreaming. The Ralph serves its purpose now - but will not in the near future.

 

I love tailgating... but I love the Buffalo Bills, MORE.

 

If that means a downtown location with smaller parking lots - then we adapt and make the best of it. (Heck, I just drove around M&T Bank Stadium in Baltimore and was totally impressed with its location. Yeah, I noticed the lack of tailgating options but still was impressed with how it meshed into the urban fabric and light rail.)

 

MY favorite urban stadium - INVESCO-Mile High Stadium in Denver - I'd hire these guys in a heartbeat to design my stadium.

 

Just keep the damn BILLS in WNY.

[BILLS02138]

And for those of you who B word about the lack of parking in downtown Buffalo -->

 

PLEASE READ THIS and then tell me where we lack parking in downtown Buffalo.

[Mike32282]

I would throw up if they put a stadium in downtown ... its hard to get into HSBC sometimes with 20,000 fans ... imagine it with 80,000 and your talking about killing tailgating.

800862[/snapback]

 

Thank you! It's about time someone realizes this. I don't know why everyone wants a downtown stadium that bad. I've seen downtown stadiums and they are hell to get in and out of, plus they suck for tailgating.

[daquixers_is_back]

Build a combo Stadium/Convention Center behind the HSBC Atrium building along the 190/Cobblestone district.  Yes, bury the 190, let the city reconnect to its waterfront and make it happen.  Don't talk to me about money in NY State.  You  pay enough fricking taxes.  Heck, I'd even support the toll at the 190 if it were going to BURY the fricking eyesore.

 

You're right - a stand alone stadium does zero for economic development - but add a convention center to the mix and we might have a powerful economic development tool.

 

Heck, we don't even need to spend money on plans when we can just borrow the plans from the proposed NY Jets Westside Stadium/Convention Center.

 

However, if the Bills do build a new stadium AND it's not downtown - then I propose building it in Orchard Park.  Don't get me wrong; I appreciate the support from Rochester AND Toronto.  But why build all new infrastructure in Lancaster or Pembroke?

 

As someone who currently lives in Boston and frequents Gillette Stadium for Pat/Revolution games - traffic is ---> one way in AND one way out.  It takes HOURS to get to and from a game in Foxhole.  I fear that we would have that same problem in Pembroke or a different un-urban location.

 

So, bottom line kids - if you think the BILLS will stay in Buffalo after a new owner comes in and DOESN'T demand a new stadium - you're all dreaming.  The Ralph serves its purpose now - but will not in the near future.

 

I love tailgating... but I love the Buffalo Bills, MORE. 

 

If that means a downtown location with smaller parking lots - then we adapt and make the best of it.  (Heck, I just drove around M&T Bank Stadium in Baltimore and was totally impressed with its location.  Yeah, I noticed the lack of tailgating options but still was impressed with how it meshed into the urban fabric and light rail.)

 

MY favorite urban stadium - INVESCO-Mile High Stadium in Denver - I'd hire these guys in a heartbeat to design my stadium.

 

Just keep the damn BILLS in WNY.

803461[/snapback]

 

Dude. Have you ever been to a Bills game? Parking is pathetic and walking isnt much fun either. I have been to many games and other stadiums have much easier driving/parking and even walking situations. Sounds weird but its true. Now think about what your saying. If you stuck a new stadium in urban farm land we would have all the space we needed to make as many parking lots/roads to get out as possible. Right now they turn abbot road into a friggin 3 lane exit and 1 way in ... that sucks for people going back the opposite way. If you stick it in Lancaster build 3 roads going one way and 3 going the other way and just get the people on the highway where they can go.

[daquixers_is_back]

Thank you!  It's about time someone realizes this.  I don't know why everyone wants a downtown stadium that bad.  I've seen downtown stadiums and they are hell to get in and out of, plus they suck for tailgating.

803496[/snapback]

 

Because most people have not been to a game with a stadium downtown. They just "think" it will be great, and they all think it will boost economy ... well how? The local bars will get a little extra revenue but imagine the thousands of bear cans and trash littering the street after every game. Goodness.

[BILLS02138]

Dude. Have you ever been to a Bills game? Parking is pathetic and walking isnt much fun either. I have been to many games and other stadiums have much easier driving/parking and even walking situations. Sounds weird but its true. Now think about what your saying. If you stuck a new stadium in urban farm land we would have all the space we needed to make as many parking lots/roads to get out as possible. Right now they turn abbot road into a friggin 3 lane exit and 1 way in ... that sucks for people going back the opposite way. If you stick it in Lancaster build 3 roads going one way and 3 going the other way and just get the people on the highway where they can go.

803499[/snapback]

 

 

Dude, yeah, I'm a season ticket holder. Go to the games all the time.

 

I'm just trying to be practical here. WNY is not NYC. We will have a difficult time enough keeping the Bills here; let alone build them a new stadium.

 

We will have to be practical in what we build... hence, killing two birds with one stone (a combo Convention Center/Stadium) seems like a practical idea to me.

 

And no, I do NOT support a stadium in Lancaster or Pembroke. We fricking sprawl enough around WNY - no reason to sprawl further out to nowhere.

 

Keep it in OP or build it downtown.

 

PS: I don't know what you're talking about. I park in Lot 5 - get in - tailgate - walk up to the stadium - and get out - with MUCH ease.

[daquixers_is_back]

Dude, yeah, I'm a season ticket holder.  Go to the games all the time.

 

I'm just trying to be practical here.  WNY is not NYC.  We will have a difficult time enough keeping the Bills here; let alone build them a new stadium.

 

We will have to be practical in what we build... hence, killing two birds with one stone (a combo Convention Center/Stadium) seems like a practical idea to me.

 

And no, I do NOT support a stadium in Lancaster or Pembroke.  We fricking sprawl enough around WNY - no reason to sprawl further out to no where.

 

Keep in in OP or build it downtown. 

 

PS: I don't know what you're talking about.  I park in Lot 5 - get in - tailgate - walk up to the stadium - and get out - with MUCH ease.

803502[/snapback]

 

Uhm. Is Lancaster no longer part of WNY???????? I always thought it was.

 

Its simple dude. RWS is worse to get out of than A LOT of stadiums. Of course their are wose, but their are also a lot better. We built in a small town and now were paying for it. I park across from the 7-11 in some dudes lot and it takes me about 20-25 minutes to get towards the thruway and then another 1 1/2 hour to get home. I dont mind it, but sooner or later some Syr/Roc/Tor fans are going to get tired and stop coming.

 

Even if we had a new stadium what makes you think a new owner would care?

[BILLS02138]

Because most people have not been to a game with a stadium downtown. They just "think" it will be great, and they all think it will boost economy ... well how? The local bars will get a little extra revenue but imagine the thousands of bear cans and trash littering the street after every game. Goodness.

803501[/snapback]

 

 

Hmm, I don't know about you but the only thing I see laying around is garbage from the pigs/tailgators who don't pick up after themselves.

 

The cans are long gone by folks who go around and collect all the cans.

[daquixers_is_back]

Hmm, I don't know about you but the only thing I see laying around is garbage from the pigs/tailgators who don't pick up after themselves. 

 

The cans are long gone by folks who go around and collect all the cans.

803507[/snapback]

 

You must go to a different Bills game in your own fantasy world.

[BILLS02138]

Uhm. Is Lancaster no longer part of WNY???????? I always thought it was.

 

Its simple dude. RWS is worse to get out of than A LOT of stadiums. Of course their are wose, but their are also a lot better. We built in a small town and now were paying for it. I park across from the 7-11 in some dudes lot and it takes me about 20-25 minutes to get towards the thruway and then another 1 1/2 hour to get home. I dont mind it, but sooner or later some Syr/Roc/Tor fans are going to get tired and stop coming.

 

Even if we had a new stadium what makes you think a new owner would care?

803505[/snapback]

 

We will not see a new stadium while Ralph is alive. He is too old to be taking on that type of transaction.

 

A new owner; whether it be his children; his wife; or Golisano - the writing is on the wall - the Bills will one day want a new stadium - just to keep up with the rest of the NFL - and I believe a convention center/stadium combo is an idea worth considering.

 

Ya want to know why daquixers?

 

While you're bitching about tailgating, walking, and parking at a stadium; the good folks up in TO will be offering $1 BILLION dollars for an NFL franchise... and it would be an abortion that we lose the BILLS because we can't get our ducks in a row and plan accordingly.

 

National Football League team for Toronto

 

Canadian NFL team may not be such a long shot

 

$1 Billion for the New Orleans Saints?

 

Until we have a new stadium and long term lease, we will always have this THREAT just 90 miles away.

[daquixers_is_back]

We will not see a new stadium while Ralph is alive.  He is too old to be taking on that type of transaction.

 

A new owner; whether it be his children; his wife; or Golisano - the writing is on the wall - the Bills will one day want a new stadium - just to keep up with the rest of the NFL - and I believe a convention center/stadium combo is an idea worth considering.

 

Ya want to know why daquixers? 

 

While you're bitching about tailgating, walking, and parking at a stadium; the good folks up in TO will be offering $1 BILLION dollars for an NFL franchise... and it would be an abortion that we lose the BILLS because we can't get our ducks in a row and plan accordingly.

 

National Football League team for Toronto

 

Canadian NFL team may not be such a long shot

 

$1 Billion for the New Orleans Saints?

 

Until we have a new stadium and long term lease, we will always have this THREAT just 90 miles away.

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Mark my words. California will have another team before Toronto does ... and Buffalo is not going anywhere. Someone, Golisano whomever will keep the team in Buffalo. People are worrying over nothing. Not to mention you posted articles from 3 ridiculous news sources.

 

Have you been to a downtown NFL stadium yet?

[BILLS02138]

Mark my words. California will have another team before Toronto does ... and Buffalo is not going anywhere. Someone, Golisano whomever will keep the team in Buffalo. People are worrying over nothing. Not to mention you posted articles from 3 ridiculous news sources.

 

Have you been to a downtown NFL stadium yet?

803634[/snapback]

 

I agree; LA will see a team before Toronto... I also agree that with enough political support and money, the BILLS will (hopefully) stay in Buffalo.

 

And yes, I've seen a game at the following urban stadiums:

 

HEINZ FIELD, PITTSBURGH

SOLDIER FIELD, CHICAGO

INVESCO FIELD AT MILE HIGH, DENVER

 

What stadiums have you been to man?

 

Bottom line: IF WNY is going to build a stadium - we're going to need to justify the expense... and if the venue can serve multiple purposes - it makes funding a whole lot easier - esp when it comes down to the tax payer.

 

Also: as Bills fans - the reality is - we may just have to give something up - ie. Tailgating - in order to keep the Bills in Buffalo. If the powers-that-be say build it downtown - then do it.

 

I'm willing to sacrifice tailgating; are you?

 

BTW, where are you from? Rochester?

[daquixers_is_back]

I agree; LA will see a team before Toronto... I also agree that with enough political support and money, the BILLS will (hopefully) stay in Buffalo.

 

And yes, I've seen a game at the following urban stadiums:

 

HEINZ FIELD, PITTSBURGH

SOLDIER FIELD, CHICAGO

INVESCO FIELD AT MILE HIGH, DENVER

 

What stadiums have you been to man?

 

Bottom line: IF WNY is going to build a stadium - we're going to need to justify the expense... and if the venue can serve multiple purposes - it makes funding a whole lot easier - esp when it comes down to the tax payer.

 

Also: as Bills fans - the reality is - we may just have to give something up - ie. Tailgating - in order to keep the Bills in Buffalo.  If the powers-that-be say build it downtown - then do it.

 

I'm willing to sacrifice tailgating; are you?

 

BTW, where are you from?  Rochester?

803681[/snapback]

 

Yes Im from Rochester. What does that have to do with anything? I love the Buffalo Bills just as much as anybody.

 

Moving on. No im not willing to give up tailgating and about 40,000 other people who thrive to tailgate are not going to want to give tailgating up either. Moving a stadium downtown does not guarantee us staying in Buffalo. Personally I dont see us staying here as a huge problem. I think that someone will buy us here before we have the chance to be moved out of town.

 

Heinz Field is not in downtown Pittsburgh ... its actually across the river from downtown Pitt.

 

Solder Field. I honestly dont know much about it, but by looking at pictures it looks like it is a decent place to put a stadium because the thruway is right there and you can just hop on and go. Your not stuck in roads for endless ammounts of time to get to the thruway. Now look at these pictures: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...x-Searsview.JPG

-and-

http://www.motlabs.com/pics/galleries/0724...ar/dscf0015.jpg

 

They have 2 huge parking lots and another medium size parking lot. That helps A LOT

 

Mile High I know nothing about

 

But anyway. Good luck on your dream of having a stadium downtown. As one poster above put it ... their simple is no room. Its not going to happen.

[BILLS02138]

But anyway. Good luck on your dream of having a stadium downtown. As one poster above put it ... their simple is no room. Its not going to happen.

803695[/snapback]

 

And good luck to you on your wish to get the Bills to move to Pembroke or Lancaster.

ps: It's not going to happen.

 

Go Bills

[BILLS02138]

Solder Field.

Now look at these pictures: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...x-Searsview.JPG

-and- http://www.motlabs.com/pics/galleries/0724...ar/dscf0015.jpg

 

Those are great images, btw. Could you imagine our outter harbor stadium looking something like that?

 

Nice... very nice.