pBills Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Reiterating and summarizing... I think the only thing we're in disagreement here is on the McGahee issue. You can certainly argue it, but, no championships for the Bills with McGahee as the starting RB... mark it down. There may be some disagreement with my assement of Evans. However, I like Evans, but he's not in the class with the big boys... at least not yet. I don't know if he will or will not get to "Harrisonville", Steve Smithville" or Holtville"... but right now he's somewhere between "Reggie Wayneville" and Darrell Jacksonville". He can be defended sans the doubleteam at this point of his career. I know folks don't like to know the stone cold trooth, but many of us Bills fans were around when the Bills carved up the AFL in the mid 60's, so we know the look and feel of what a championship team is. The same is true of the early 80's when the Bills had Fergy, Cribbs, Frank lewis & Jerry Butler and a stout defense. And in the 90's with Jimbo, Thermal, Reed, Wolford, Ritcher, Ballard, Biscuit, Bruce, Odomes, etc. As fans, we sensed early on in those teams there was something special. Sorry, but that truly is the frame of reference... that's somewhat of the template. 800705[/snapback] Ok, first off this "stone cold trooth" with trooth being misspelled is dumb. Secondly, you keep saying McGahee isn't championship RB and does not compare to the big boys... yet, he is so far ahead of all but two? Make sense? Didn't think so. Now on to your look and feel of championship team. I don't believe that anyone here has stated that this team IS a championship team. Just that they are much improved and ahead of the game when it comes to rebuilding. Thinking, expecting or even talking about anything more than that is foolish. With that being said, I do believe that they will beat the Lions and then the Pats at home... making them 4-3 going into the bye-week. Not bad for a young rebuilding team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Reiterating and summarizing... McGahee... not a championship RB. ...but, no championships for THE BILLS with McGahee as the starting RB... mark it down. You say McGahee is not a championship running back, then you say he is not a championship running back WITH THE BILLS. If McGahee played for Indianapolis is he then a championship running back? Or- who out there IS a championship running back for THE BILLS right now? Also, I think labeling WR's #1 or #2 is overrated. The combination of the top 2 WR's is more important than calling someone a #1 or #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 This is like what Stephen Colbert refers to as "truthiness" or as, in this case, "troothiness." In other words, it is mostly BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 2) Lee Evans is an outstanding #2 receiver, and he proved that when Moulds was the #1. But, that's as good as he's going to get... an uper echelon #2 (one notch above "Reggie Waynville'). He's no Tory Holt, or even Isaac Bruce, Hines Ward, or Marvin Harrison and never will be. And he sure as hell ain't going to make anyone forget Andre Reed. 800209[/snapback] I disagree with this statement. He is a number one receiver and can easily be our version of Steve Smith from Carolina. He is very fast, has great hands and is a great runner after the catch. It has taken him a few games to figure out how to beat double teams but he is starting to make progress. When he and Losman re-establish the chemistry that they have displayed in the past, his numbers will begin to explode. I have been impressed withhim so far and have a feeling the best is yet to come. By the way, in addition to some of the comments above about Evans performance in Chicago, Evans also beat his man deep early in the game and would have had an easy 6 if the ball wouldn't have gotten away from JP and been overthrown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Trooth Posted October 10, 2006 Author Share Posted October 10, 2006 You say McGahee is not a championship running back, then you say he is not a championship running back WITH THE BILLS. If McGahee played for Indianapolis is he then a championship running back? Or- who out there IS a championship running back for THE BILLS right now? OK, you win. Willis, as their #1 RB, for any NFL team, will not win a championship. Willis... with the Colts. Wow, I can see Polian salivating right now to bring him on board so he can watch as EMS carts Peyton off the field after another blitz whiff by Willis. What exactly is Willis game? Is it power... if so, there are many more powerful backs out there. Is it speed? If so, where is it? he's approaching 800 touches... 41 for his long gain and no TD to go with it? Is his game elusiveness? Can't say I've seen any game tape with any evidence of that... you'll have to show me a clip. Is his game blocking? that last question wa s a joke... please forgive me. Who then?... Damn, I like a lot of other RBs out there, but the Bills can't have any of them... Alenader, Ladanian, Willie P., etc. But, the one I like the most though is Laurence Maroney...he's the real deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Now there's some perspective. You're even more of a newb here than I am. Give it a rest. Willis busted a couple huge runs over his career that came back with penalties. He had a 60+ yarder in the preseason. The guy has it to be a top 5 NFL back. Our line is a terrible run blocking line. They don't have the power to move the pile or create proper holes. Willis gets his yards the hard way, every game. Not to mention, his blitz pickups have been amazing since he whiffed that one. And no one was harder on Willis after whiffing that big blitz pickup than he was on himself. The guy stood up and took responsibility in the media for !@#$ing up. 800335[/snapback] So your opinion is wrong unless you posted 10,000 times here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjamie12 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 You can certainly argue it, but, no championships for the Bills with McGahee as the starting RB... mark it down. I feel compelled to respond to this nonsense. This prediction is just ridiculous. The early 90's Buffalo Bills never won a Super Bowl, either, so does that mean that you wouldn't want Thurman Thomas on your team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 I would take Maroney over McGahee in a heartbeat. OK, you win. Willis, as their #1 RB, for any NFL team, will not win a championship. Willis... with the Colts. Wow, I can see Polian salivating right now to bring him on board so he can watch as EMS carts Peyton off the field after another blitz whiff by Willis. What exactly is Willis game? Is it power... if so, there are many more powerful backs out there. Is it speed? If so, where is it? he's approaching 800 touches... 41 for his long gain and no TD to go with it? Is his game elusiveness? Can't say I've seen any game tape with any evidence of that... you'll have to show me a clip. Is his game blocking? that last question wa s a joke... please forgive me. Who then?... Damn, I like a lot of other RBs out there, but the Bills can't have any of them... Alenader, Ladanian, Willie P., etc. But, the one I like the most though is Laurence Maroney...he's the real deal. 800826[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 ......McGahee... not a championship RB..... 800705[/snapback] gee, I guess you really know what you are talking about... ....Willis, as their #1 RB, for any NFL team, will not win a championship....800826[/snapback] WM is simply not good enough to win a championship on any team? Thanks for the information. If only we had a RB of the caliber of.... A.Smith(2003 & 2001) M.Pittman(2002) Levens or Bennett(1996) Usually I have a really hard time thinking for myself about such difficult things as player talent....that is why I'm so glad there are people like you to tell me just how it is. I'll be sure to argue the case against WM to non-Bills fans if he does manage to get the rushing crown....or god forbid get a first class OL in front of him & produce massive numbers. Thanks Dr. Tooth. What would I ever do without you insightful analysis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 gee, I guess you really know what you are talking about...WM is simply not good enough to win a championship on any team? Thanks for the information. If only we had a RB of the caliber of.... A.Smith(2003 & 2001) M.Pittman(2002) Levens or Bennett(1996) Usually I have a really hard time thinking for myself about such difficult things as player talent....that is why I'm so glad there are people like you to tell me just how it is. I'll be sure to argue the case against WM to non-Bills fans if he does manage to get the rushing crown....or god forbid get a first class OL in front of him & produce massive numbers. Thanks Dr. Tooth. What would I ever do without you insightful analysis? 801352[/snapback] You had me until Edgar Bennett. Bennett was a damn good back. Running,, catching and blocking. One of the best in the game at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 The internet truly is the Idiot's Podium. 800373[/snapback] Tru Dat....that is all I can say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 You had me until Edgar Bennett. Bennett was a damn good back. Running,, catching and blocking. One of the best in the game at the time. 801357[/snapback] That does not disprove my point though.... You still agree with the point I'm making even though you disagree with one of the examples I gave to prove my point don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Reiterating and summarizing... Bills O... work in progress McGahee... not a championship RB. Evans... great #2 (hasn't proved otherwise). The rest of the WRs are 3's at best. Oline... serviceable, but the starting group won't get Bills to next level. JP... Jury still out. 1 step forward, 2 back. By season's end we'll no the answer to whether or not he's the real deal. Has to unlearn what Mularkey/Wyche taught him + deal without having a championship caliber RB and no #1 WR. I think the only thing we're in disagreement here is on the McGahee issue. You can certainly argue it, but, no championships for the Bills with McGahee as the starting RB... mark it down. There may be some disagreement with my assement of Evans. However, I like Evans, but he's not in the class with the big boys... at least not yet. I don't know if he will or will not get to "Harrisonville", Steve Smithville" or Holtville"... but right now he's somewhere between "Reggie Wayneville" and Darrell Jacksonville". He can be defended sans the doubleteam at this point of his career. As for my comparisons with the former greats... well, if the Bills are to get to the next level, isn't that what it will take? We're looking at a 2-3 team right now with 2 wins against the Fins and the Vikes... let's be real here. We all witnessed the carnage in Chicago. Teams like Broncos, Chargers, Ravens, Jags, Colts, etc.... teams they would have to go through to win the SB, they really can't matchup with at this time. And, who are the core players on this team? Are the core players JP, Evans, and Willis? I know folks don't like to know the stone cold trooth, but many of us Bills fans were around when the Bills carved up the AFL in the mid 60's, so we know the look and feel of what a championship team is. The same is true of the early 80's when the Bills had Fergy, Cribbs, Frank lewis & Jerry Butler and a stout defense. And in the 90's with Jimbo, Thermal, Reed, Wolford, Ritcher, Ballard, Biscuit, Bruce, Odomes, etc. As fans, we sensed early on in those teams there was something special. Sorry, but that truly is the frame of reference... that's somewhat of the template. 800705[/snapback] If you add "recomsiodering some of my previous unsupported fact free opinions" to the reiterating and summarizing you started this post with then we are talking something which is worthy of being taken seriously. I don't think that folks would disagree with some of the work in progres or jury still out comments you make in this post. It is the stuff you state is stone cold fact, or that Evans will never get better, or even the potential reading of the comments in this post about McGahee (I agree that he is not a championship qualiy RB at this point, but while he is not Thurman or OJ at this point, the fact that he is the fastest Bill RB ever to reach 2000 yards rushing and one can see the still unfinished but much improved WM work on blitz pick-ups in his game by contrasting the whiff he made last year that led to a JP safety, his misses in the Jets game this year and some pretty good performances in the last two games. It is this which you depict as stone cold trusth which is clearly beyond anyone to actually predict unless you have a crystal ball the rest of us do not have and which even your own arguments actually contradict. While there is no stone cold truth in terms of predictions about the very young and still well on the frontside of their development of players like Evans and WM (and even JP though you correctly do not seem to make stone cold predictions about his play) the actual facts (which legit predictions cannot be made from though we alll are enttled to express out hopes for what will happen and try to substantiate those hopes by citing facts - though why any troo Bills fan would hope Evans or WM will fail is beyind me): 1. Like it or not Evans is the #1 WR on this team and the facts are he has led this team in catches the last three weeks in a row by a substantial amount. In each game against substandard Ds as the Jets appear to be and the best of them as the Bears clearly are he has produced about 100 yards with some nice grabs. If one indicts his fellow receivers as being no better than #3s then this performance is even more impressive as he has performed without a legit #2 threat on the field with him (though clearly Moulds has a legit #2 threat in Evans by his side. One can complain (read that as whine actually) about particular aspects of his performance such as his like Marvin Harrison only having put up 1 TD so far this year, but given his moving into the top 10 now in receptions after a horrid start in the firdt two games he clearly is getting better and he and JP have the same chemistry they showed last year in the fiest quarter against Miami. 2. The fact remains that McGahee is also a work in progress, he really is not that far removed in terms of time from a compound knee injury which seemed at the time likely to end his career. It is truly a testimoney to hard work on his part (whether prompted by wanting the money or character who knows though the answer is likely both) that he made it back to get chosen in the first round and he has demonstrated to date that TD made a good choice as he acquired a man who showed top 5 player talent before his injury at #23. We'll see how this turns out ultimately, but as the quickest Bill RB to ruh for 2000 yards, by his howing some glimmers of receiving talent though he is not utilized that way by the Bills O, he has one of the best stiff arms in the league and he has had and continus to have as recently as a couple of games ago big blitz pick-up problems, but has demonstrated some very good blitz pick-ups the last couple of games including one play where he actually made two good blitz blocks on the same play. WM is also clearly a work in progress, but since the fact is to date he is 3rd in the NFL for yardage among RBs he has a great base to progress from. Some folks seem really cheesed at WM for odd comments like his baby momma comments and I agree they seem stupid. However, I simply think folks should make a decision no to sleep with WM and simply enjoy some ough running he is doing for us. The only stone cold trooth here is that this team is a work in progress from top to bottom. The good news unless the observer has some great affectiion for te accomplishments of the 05 Bills the progress the 06 squad is showing from last years play is real and the prescence of a large number of young players in key roles for this 2-3 team bodes well for the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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