nodnarb Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Jauron is not an exciting guy but he's a very good coach. There's a reason that he's one of the most universally respected coaches in the league, by players and coaches alike. I think he's doing well so far and it would be a shame if the media and call in cranks were to start piling on this early in his tenure. He's still basically coaching with players brought in to play in GW's 46 hybrid system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Uncoincidentally Marv Levy is considered a great HC. I defy people to come up with examples of HC's that had success for an extended period of time without a great QB. I could come up with 100's of examples of great HC's with great QB's. The relationship isn't independent for some of those names, but for many it is. Still we expected/expect Gregg, Mularkey, or Jauron to right the ship no matter what happens at QB. Not how it works folks. 799891[/snapback] Who was at quarterback when Mularkey had those two top 5 offenses that Simon was referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 <hijack> Yeah except for the fact that in 2 of his 3 years as an O-coordinator his teams finished in the Top5 of NFL offenses. But he's obviously incapable of using the resources he's given. As for his current situation, nobody on this planet could succeed with resources like Bennie Anderson, Jeno James and LJ Shelton. </hijack> 799866[/snapback] That the same Jeno James who started in a Super Bowl a couple of years back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 And once upon a time, Jim Kelly went to 4 superbowls. That doesn't mean he's relevant in today's NFL. Whatever Mularkey had in Pittsburgh is long gone now. The league has passed him by. 799878[/snapback] What Mularkey had in Pittsburgh was a team that is strong in the trenches. This is why they won football games. The Bills have a team that is weak in the trenches. This is why we lose football games. Anderson was almost killed by a washed up Ruben Brown on one play, and was disgraceful on most others. He is backed up by a rookie. Gandy is made a fool of all too often. Our washed up RG was replaced by a nobody. Reyes, another castoff, looks like he weighs 250, yet he is a major improvement on what was here last season. Nice, huh? We might have the highest paid secondary in the NFL, or close to it, and 2 of them are rookies. This game meant little imo. Our odds of winning were slim. The long term philosophy of this team is what matters, and it is stupid, and it has been for many years. Is Mularkey a lousy coach? Probably so, and even HE could win games with strong lines. It is not a question of being "passed by." It is about how to build a winning football team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 Who was at quarterback when Mularkey had those two top 5 offenses that Simon was referring to? 799896[/snapback] Kordella but Mularkey was the OC, not the HC. This topic, and my comments only refer to HC's and QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Kordella but Mularkey was the OC, not the HC. This topic, and my comments only refer to HC's and QB's. 799905[/snapback] Okay, so it was Bill Cowher having top 5 offenses with Kordell Stewart at quarterback. It can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgun Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Thats funny, I say the same thing to hot lesbian chicks, wierd. 799880[/snapback] Yes, this is our first "real' coach since Marv. We will get better with him and the new coordinators that he has brought in. I am only upset with Fairchild aborting the running game so early. I know it was tough against their front seven, but we still didn't run enough early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 Okay, so it was Bill Cowher having top 5 offenses with Kordell Stewart at quarterback. It can be done. 799911[/snapback] So we should hold Jauron and the Bills to this one example, and not the 100's of ones that contradict it? The truth is without a decent QB no coach in the NFL will get a fair shake. The ones that have QB's get way to much credit, and the ones that don't get way to much blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 we're already 5 weeks into the season and Jauron still hasn't won a Super Bowl time to start over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 So we should hold Jauron and the Bills to this one example, and not the 100's of ones that contradict it? The truth is without a decent QB no coach in the NFL will get a fair shake. The ones that have QB's get way to much credit, and the ones that don't get way to much blame. 799917[/snapback] Its a good point, and I agree with you. But if the whole team is imploding and everything is a disaster, we've got a bad D and little running game after 3-4 years, you've got to re-evaluate Jauron no matter who the quarterback is. But if the team is giving effort and playing well, but JP (or whoever) isn't getting it done and it looks like we're a quarterback away from contending, then he gets a pass for not winning in his first few years. In which case we go out and find him a QB who can win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 The last time Buffalo had a QB with a 1.5 TD/INT ratio or higher was 2003. Drew did it once, and never could repeat that success again. 799813[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Yeah except for the fact that in 2 of his 3 years as an O-coordinator his teams finished in the Top5 of NFL offenses. But he's obviously incapable of using the resources he's given. 799866[/snapback] Anyone else wanna field this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Whether or not they deserved to be run out of town remains to be seen. As the stats clearly indicate you don't experience consistent success in the NFL without good QB play. If you do, the overwhelming majority of teams have lost it the following season. The coaches we ran out of town had a QB that neither Bill Parcells or Belichick have done crap with. Both are Super Bowl winning coaches, and both have had superior talent then the Bledose led Bills teams Mularkey and Williams had. The only person that would tell you otherwise is TD before the start of each year. 799877[/snapback] Mybe I'm missing something but Bill Parcells went to the Superbowl with Drew Bledsoe and Belechick went twice to the playoffs with him. Parcells went 9-7 with him last year, and may do pretty well with him this year. In my opinion, for what its worth Bledsoe gave us the 9-7 season (making the pro bowl for the fourth time.) and would have done a hell of a lot better but for god-awful coaching...see Ruben Brown's comments before the Chicago game and listen to what most Buffalo Bills players have said about Gilbride, Williams, Mularkey and the various coaching folks we've had. Losman may be a good quarterback. Lombardi didn't have an impressive quarterback in Bart Starr by any means when he arrived at Green Bay..but did pretty well with the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 Its a good point, and I agree with you. But if the whole team is imploding and everything is a disaster, we've got a bad D and little running game after 3-4 years, you've got to re-evaluate Jauron no matter who the quarterback is. But if the team is giving effort and playing well, but JP (or whoever) isn't getting it done and it looks like we're a quarterback away from contending, then he gets a pass for not winning in his first few years. In which case we go out and find him a QB who can win. 799922[/snapback] I agree. I just hope we take a more patient approach this time around. That's not to say Mularkey or Williams were good here. I haven't made any comments saying as much. But I do know they had a very small chance at be successful long term with our QB play. Looking at the odds of a QB making it, JP is more likely to fail then succeed. We need to keep him in for consistency's sake, and the hope that he can put it together. But he fails then what? Are Bills fans patient enough to wait and see on another QB? At this point were at year 3 with Jauron, and need more time for a QB to develop. Jauron wouldn't survive. We will hire a new staff, and once again enter rebuilding. It's a sick cycle that's killed any chance of consistency the last 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 Mybe I'm missing something but Bill Parcells went to the Superbowl with Drew Bledsoe and Belechick went twice to the playoffs with him. Parcells went 9-7 with him last year, and may do pretty well with him this year. In my opinion, for what its worth Bledsoe gave us the 9-7 season (making the pro bowl for the fourth time.) and would have done a hell of a lot better but for god-awful coaching...see Ruben Brown's comments before the Chicago game and listen to what most Buffalo Bills players have said about Gilbride, Williams, Mularkey and the various coaching folks we've had. Losman may be a good quarterback. Lombardi didn't have an impressive quarterback in Bart Starr by any means when he arrived at Green Bay..but did pretty well with the guy. 799939[/snapback] The same Bledsoe that played in Buffalo, and now Dallas after years of being destroyed? He was a diffrent player then. As for Lomabrdi you just mentioned the greatest coach in football history. I would hope if anybody could win without a great QB it would be him. Then again Starr is in the Hall, along with about 10 other players from the 60's Packers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Anyone else wanna field this one? 799931[/snapback] I believe it's your turn... just make sure to use dial soap when you're done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Mybe I'm missing something but Bill Parcells went to the Superbowl with Drew Bledsoe and Belechick went twice to the playoffs with him. Parcells went 9-7 with him last year, and may do pretty well with him this year. In my opinion, for what its worth Bledsoe gave us the 9-7 season (making the pro bowl for the fourth time.) and would have done a hell of a lot better but for god-awful coaching...see Ruben Brown's comments before the Chicago game and listen to what most Buffalo Bills players have said about Gilbride, Williams, Mularkey and the various coaching folks we've had. Losman may be a good quarterback. Lombardi didn't have an impressive quarterback in Bart Starr by any means when he arrived at Green Bay..but did pretty well with the guy. 799939[/snapback] Bledsoe had a terrific regular season in '94 without much of a running game or defense, and was shut down by Bellicheck & Cleveland in a wildcard game. '95 was a disppointing 6-10. '96 was a nice bounceback year, though if you look at the playoff games vs. Pittsburgh & Jacksonville, Martin & the defense carried the team. That carried over into '97 when they beat Miami in a no-offense wildcard game and lost to Kordell & Pittsburgh 7-6 in the 2nd round. '98 the refs gave them a wildcard spot and he was injured before wildcard loss in Jacksonville. '99 & 2000 he stunk and never went to the playoffs with Bellicheck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 So we should hold Jauron and the Bills to this one example, and not the 100's of ones that contradict it? The truth is without a decent QB no coach in the NFL will get a fair shake. The ones that have QB's get way to much credit, and the ones that don't get way to much blame. 799917[/snapback] So you're scapegoating the QB instead of the HC. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 The same Bledsoe that played in Buffalo, and now Dallas after years of being destroyed? He was a diffrent player then. As for Lomabrdi you just mentioned the greatest coach in football history. I would hope if anybody could win without a great QB it would be him. Then again Starr is in the Hall, along with about 10 other players from the 60's Packers. 799944[/snapback] Right...but nobody thought Starr was a quality quarterback when Lombardi was "stuck" with him when he came to Green Bay. As to Bledsoe...he made the pro bowl and just about made the playoffs last year after being "destroyed". The only coaches who didn't do well with him consistently were none other than GW and MM. I'm not saying we'd necessarily be better off if we kept him (although one could easily make that argument.) but I am saying that our downfall had nothing to do with him and everything to do with horrible coaching and a nightmare GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 So you're scapegoating the QB instead of the HC. Nice. 799961[/snapback] First try and disprove what I'm saying with facts if you disagree with it. Second You don't find it the least bit intresting/coincidental that nearly every good or great head coach has had a good or great QB? That teams magically go from winner to losers right when the QB is changed or breaks threw? That an overwhelming amount of coaches are fired, without ever getting good QB play? The NFL has far more examples of great QB's that made bad or average coaches great, then great coaches who made bad or average QB's great. It's a fact, not scapegoating. I'll be happy to run off a list, since I can think off about 25 examples off my head, of defensive type HC's that were losers for years, until a QB came in a changed things. Obviously a Defensive coach would have zero impact on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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