Schulman16 Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Dan (New York, NY): Chris, howcome you can't talk about the Bills without mentioning Tom Donahoe? He had 5 years to get things working in buffalo, and failed year after year. He drafted some of the right guys, but the coaches he hired were failures and the schemes they used didn't utilize their players' talents. How about commenting on Levy, Modrak, and Juaron a little bit? Chris Mortensen: (11:58 AM ET ) I am going to do something on the Bills in my blog this week. I can't believe that Buffalo folks aren't willing to give credit to Donohoe for at least inheriting a team with a salary cap mess, a quarterback mess and then putting together some pretty good talent. Don't believe that Levy was involved that much in this draft because he wans't up to snuff but I give Marv a lot of credir for hiring Jauron, who hired his own good staff. Mularkey did win his first year, by the way, and Levy wanted him back. Greg Williams was everybody's hot coach last winter. I'm not saying Donohoe was perfect but nobody is and it's ridiculous that people won't acknowledge that he does deserve credit the Bills' promise right now - Losman, McGahee, Evans, Reed, Parrish, Fletcher, Kelsay, Denny, Clements, McGee, etc. He also hired Modrak, by the way. I hope it all works out for the Bills but let's be fair and not one-sided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Dan (New York, NY): Chris, howcome you can't talk about the Bills without mentioning Tom Donahoe? He had 5 years to get things working in buffalo, and failed year after year. He drafted some of the right guys, but the coaches he hired were failures and the schemes they used didn't utilize their players' talents. How about commenting on Levy, Modrak, and Juaron a little bit? Chris Mortensen: (11:58 AM ET ) I am going to do something on the Bills in my blog this week. I can't believe that Buffalo folks aren't willing to give credit to Donohoe for at least inheriting a team with a salary cap mess, a quarterback mess and then putting together some pretty good talent. Don't believe that Levy was involved that much in this draft because he wans't up to snuff but I give Marv a lot of credir for hiring Jauron, who hired his own good staff. Mularkey did win his first year, by the way, and Levy wanted him back. Greg Williams was everybody's hot coach last winter. I'm not saying Donohoe was perfect but nobody is and it's ridiculous that people won't acknowledge that he does deserve credit the Bills' promise right now - Losman, McGahee, Evans, Reed, Parrish, Fletcher, Kelsay, Denny, Clements, McGee, etc. He also hired Modrak, by the way. I hope it all works out for the Bills but let's be fair and not one-sided. 795106[/snapback] I guess he told you, nice answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billieve2006 Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 WOW! Chris loves Tom! That makes me sick...please add to contributing factors as to why I hate ESPN. 789. Ted Bruschi 790. Christ Mortenson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schulman16 Posted October 4, 2006 Author Share Posted October 4, 2006 I guess he told you, nice answer... 795111[/snapback] just wish i could respond. I'm not denying the things donahoe did, but I am not going to overlook hte things he didnt do. I'm sure he tried his best, but he didn't get the job done, plain and simple. Its fine to give him a 3 year grace period. Year 4 made us look like we were approaching the next level. Year 5 was an unexcusable failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Yeah, to be fair the Bills have a assembled a 2-2 record so far by replacing only 22 TD-signed players. Just a tweak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schulman16 Posted October 4, 2006 Author Share Posted October 4, 2006 Yeah, to be fair the Bills have a assembled a 2-2 record so far by replacing only 22 TD-signed players. Just a tweak. 795121[/snapback] It just bothers me that mort wouldnt even credit the fact that levy and the bills drafted well this year and signed some quality, under the radar free agents. Instead it's just donahoe's guys starting to shine like he always knew they would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 It just bothers me that mort wouldnt even credit the fact that levy and the bills drafted well this year and signed some quality, under the radar free agents. Instead it's just donahoe's guys starting to shine like he always knew they would. 795133[/snapback] Under a coaching staff that knows what to do with them. And minus the highest pick Donahoe made. Those are two huge strikes. Mularkey's mishandling of the Losman situation was No. 3. Outta there, have a seat. Next batter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 It just bothers me that mort wouldnt even credit the fact that levy and the bills drafted well this year and signed some quality, under the radar free agents. Instead it's just donahoe's guys starting to shine like he always knew they would. 795133[/snapback] Actually what he said was that Modrak was responsible for drafting them, which was a TD guy, and very highly likely true. And John Guy who went after the free agents was a TD guy, too. And he commended Marv for signing Jauron, who in turn got the two new coordinators who have done very well so far, which is very true, also. In fact, objectively, that was a very fair and right on response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schulman16 Posted October 4, 2006 Author Share Posted October 4, 2006 Actually what he said was that Modrak was responsible for drafting them, which was a TD guy, and very highly likely true. And John Guy who went after the free agents was a TD guy, too. And he commended Marv for signing Jauron, who in turn got the two new coordinators who have done very well so far, which is very true, also. In fact, objectively, that was a very fair and right on response. 795138[/snapback] I kind of think thats a cop out though. Do you think if donahoe was gm that we'd have the exact same draft this year? Just because modrak and guy were there too? I think it's safe to assume that Donahoe was a guy who relied less on the opinions of others and was determined to do what he wanted. Marv clearly knows how to delegate and build consensus. By valuing "high character" above all else, I'm sure it creates a different blueprint from which to evaluate players for your team. Maybe it is simply an intangible. Clearly Donahoe has a history of wearing out his welcome with his power-trip ways, while Levy respects the opinions of others and is a winner. I dont know what it is, but I just think its BS to say that TD is primarily responsible for this years team when all he supplied during his tenure was stagnation and mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Y. Orangeman Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Actually what he said was that Modrak was responsible for drafting them, which was a TD guy, and very highly likely true. And John Guy who went after the free agents was a TD guy, too. And he commended Marv for signing Jauron, who in turn got the two new coordinators who have done very well so far, which is very true, also. In fact, objectively, that was a very fair and right on response. 795138[/snapback] I couldn't agree more with you, Kelly. TD is significantly underrated and Marv is significantly overrated (to date) around this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schulman16 Posted October 4, 2006 Author Share Posted October 4, 2006 I couldn't agree more with you, Kelly. TD is significantly underrated and Marv is significantly overrated (to date) around this board. 795148[/snapback] Ok I guess you guys make a good point. Im not trying to discredit TD as much as you think. I agreed with many of his personell moves. I guess more than anything, it was the fact that expectations seemed to be high since the first year of getting Bledsoe, and were never ever met. We were always "one or two players away"--we never got to the next level. It was just frustrating to be patient when the NFL has teams every year that make the playoffs that missed the year before, yet for some reason we need to wait year after year. I think a change had to be made and I don't regret TD not being here anymore. I think you guys need to look at the bottom line here, and then look at who to hold accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDRupp Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Actually what he said was that Modrak was responsible for drafting them, which was a TD guy, and very highly likely true. And John Guy who went after the free agents was a TD guy, too. And he commended Marv for signing Jauron, who in turn got the two new coordinators who have done very well so far, which is very true, also. In fact, objectively, that was a very fair and right on response. 795138[/snapback] The part that is not right on is the part where he says "lets be fair and not so one sided" b/c that is exactly what he is. Supporting TD and mostly bashing Levy during the Draft. Hmmm. If Levy was not up to snuff and he does not deserve the majority of the credit for this seemily very good draft then why did mort and company (Clayton) criticize him back in April for a "very suspect" draft. Hey, I am was definitely not happy with the non trade with Denver to 15 to get an extra 2 nd rounder. I think it was worth the risk and so did the "experts". Moving up to get McCargo, I did not like either but only time will really tell so far we have 4 guys that have started from this class and played at least decently. That is huge and to not give the GM credit is wrong. Marv made the final call on all picks granted with help and input from some ex-Donahoe hires. So, they are now Marv guys if he is working with, guiding them, and listening to them, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Dan (New York, NY): Chris, howcome you can't talk about the Bills without mentioning Tom Donahoe? He had 5 years to get things working in buffalo, and failed year after year. He drafted some of the right guys, but the coaches he hired were failures and the schemes they used didn't utilize their players' talents. How about commenting on Levy, Modrak, and Juaron a little bit? Chris Mortensen: (11:58 AM ET ) I am going to do something on the Bills in my blog this week. I can't believe that Buffalo folks aren't willing to give credit to Donohoe for at least inheriting a team with a salary cap mess, a quarterback mess and then putting together some pretty good talent. Don't believe that Levy was involved that much in this draft because he wans't up to snuff but I give Marv a lot of credir for hiring Jauron, who hired his own good staff. Mularkey did win his first year, by the way, and Levy wanted him back. Greg Williams was everybody's hot coach last winter. I'm not saying Donohoe was perfect but nobody is and it's ridiculous that people won't acknowledge that he does deserve credit the Bills' promise right now - Losman, McGahee, Evans, Reed, Parrish, Fletcher, Kelsay, Denny, Clements, McGee, etc. He also hired Modrak, by the way. I hope it all works out for the Bills but let's be fair and not one-sided. 795106[/snapback] does the fact that others wanted williams last year make him into a good coach for the bills? no. also, why does the fact that mularkey presided over a dysfunctional and bad team last year (one that was significantly worse than the 04 squad) go unmentioned? does he really think that the bills weren't happy that mularkey left (as opposed to being fired), thereby obviating the bills' obligation to pay him three years salary? i hope he doesn't think that, but if he does, there's a bridge in brooklyn i'd like to sell him. losman may be playing well now, but does that wash away the fact that the qb controversy he inherited never was fixed under his five year regime? of course he made some good picks -- most people would agree with that. however, this response is so one-sided that it's ridiculous. the basic point is this: bills fans, you have no idea how good you had it from 2001-05, how good your coaches were, and how good the team is thanks to donohoe's legacy. he neglects to mention the key thing: 31-49 (28-36 if you want to give him a mulligan for the first year, and that still sucks). donohoe may do well elsewhere; i don't know. i'm sure he learned some lessons in buffalo, and he's a reasonably intelligent guy (although certainly not brilliant). assuming he does land somewhere, though, he'll certainly be a good source for espn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Dan (New York, NY): Chris, howcome you can't talk about the Bills without mentioning Tom Donahoe? He had 5 years to get things working in buffalo, and failed year after year. He drafted some of the right guys, but the coaches he hired were failures and the schemes they used didn't utilize their players' talents. How about commenting on Levy, Modrak, and Juaron a little bit? Chris Mortensen: (11:58 AM ET ) I am going to do something on the Bills in my blog this week. I can't believe that Buffalo folks aren't willing to give credit to Donohoe for at least inheriting a team with a salary cap mess, a quarterback mess and then putting together some pretty good talent. Don't believe that Levy was involved that much in this draft because he wans't up to snuff but I give Marv a lot of credir for hiring Jauron, who hired his own good staff. Mularkey did win his first year, by the way, and Levy wanted him back. Greg Williams was everybody's hot coach last winter. I'm not saying Donohoe was perfect but nobody is and it's ridiculous that people won't acknowledge that he does deserve credit the Bills' promise right now - Losman, McGahee, Evans, Reed, Parrish, Fletcher, Kelsay, Denny, Clements, McGee, etc. He also hired Modrak, by the way. I hope it all works out for the Bills but let's be fair and not one-sided. 795106[/snapback] It seems strange that he calls out Buffalo fans for not giving Donahoe and credit, even after you gave him some credit in your question. For the most part, it seems like the fans have moved on from this whole deal. I wish Mort would do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 The part that is not right on is the part where he says "lets be fair and not so one sided" b/c that is exactly what he is. Supporting TD and mostly bashing Levy during the Draft. Hmmm. If Levy was not up to snuff and he does not deserve the majority of the credit for this seemily very good draft then why did mort and company (Clayton) criticize him back in April for a "very suspect" draft. Hey, I am was definitely not happy with the non trade with Denver to 15 to get an extra 2 nd rounder. I think it was worth the risk and so did the "experts". Moving up to get McCargo, I did not like either but only time will really tell so far we have 4 guys that have started from this class and played at least decently. That is huge and to not give the GM credit is wrong. Marv made the final call on all picks granted with help and input from some ex-Donahoe hires. So, they are now Marv guys if he is working with, guiding them, and listening to them, right? 795168[/snapback] Bottom line: Any good move made by the organization (even in retrospect) is the result of "TD's guys" still being there. Any bad move made is completely Marv's fault...but let's not be one-sided here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Actually what he said was that Modrak was responsible for drafting them, which was a TD guy, and very highly likely true. And John Guy who went after the free agents was a TD guy, too. And he commended Marv for signing Jauron, who in turn got the two new coordinators who have done very well so far, which is very true, also. In fact, objectively, that was a very fair and right on response. 795138[/snapback] Most of it is right on but Mort won't even concede that TD's coaching staffs were a problem. If TD made the right moves with personnel AND the right moves with the coaches why the hell did the Bills lose so many games under Donahoe? Edit: I also like how he lists Parrish as a positive. Sure the guy is a pretty good slot WR but a team that was rebuilding needed something more than that with their first pick of the draft. That was a pure luxury pick that the Bills couldn't afford to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catholic Guilt Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 I hope it all works out for the Bills but let's be fair and not one-sided. 795106[/snapback] Hello Pot, meet Kettle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Most of it is right on but Mort won't even concede that TD's coaching staffs were a problem. If TD made the right moves with personnel AND the right moves with the coaches why the hell did the Bills lose so many games under Donahoe? Edit: I also like how he lists Parrish as a positive. Sure the guy is a pretty good slot WR but a team that was rebuilding needed something more than that with their first pick of the draft. That was a pure luxury pick that the Bills couldn't afford to make. 795258[/snapback] i like parrish too, but the guy has something like 10 career catches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Mort is surely not fair, and is surely one-sided. He's sticking up for his friend because he sees his friend getting an inordinate amount of heat. Granted, a journalist in theory shouldn't have friends like that but this is the real world and their job depends on it. So when he sees what he considers to be a gross injustice, he goes out of his way to defend the guy. In this commentary we're referencing though, he is very fair. It isn't totally bashing Marv or ball-washing TD. It's pointing out some observations, most of which I agree with, too. So his commentary yes, should be taken in context. He's right in his general thesis though, IMO. People do not give enough credit to Donohoe for this Bills team. That statement IN NO WAY says TD is great, or that TD's tenure didn't grossly fail, or that he shouldn't be gone. It only shows that things are not black and white. TD did some good and very good things, he did some bad and very bad things. We're much better off now that he is gone, but he deserves some of the credit for what is going on now, too. Two things can happen simulataneously in this world, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Did you honestly start your question with the words "how come"? Way to contribute to the stereotype that WNYers are hillbillys with nothing to do but drink and watch football. Well, that stereotype is true, but we didn't need your help adding to it. I mean, I know many of my posts have typos, but you had to have proofread that before sending it to Mort, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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