UConn James Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 I like this idea. Make it a full time job. Pay them the darn money (we know the NFL has enough) and make them take 6 months of classes. I dont care that its long. Stop making mistakes. 792648[/snapback] If that Super Bowl wasn't enough to convince the league honchos that something needs to be done about refs, nothing will. They accept a lousy standard. Maybe b/c it adds a level of drama in the script.
Fezmid Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 But no need for full-time refs in the NFL! 792645[/snapback] And again, how would full time refs help here? When I officiated football, we used to ask the coaches of both teams whether they had any trick plays they might use that we should be aware of during the game. It's helpful to know what things you might be seeing (such as a pooch kickoff like this). I wonder if they do that in the NFL. Cw
UConn James Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 And again, how would full time refs help here? When I officiated football, we used to ask the coaches of both teams whether they had any trick plays they might use that we should be aware of during the game. It's helpful to know what things you might be seeing (such as a pooch kickoff like this). I wonder if they do that in the NFL. Cw 792658[/snapback] Dude, all due respect, but they're supposed to be PROFESSIONALS! And b/w Walt Coleman being a doctor or lawyer or whatever from 8-6 M-F, when is anything like that going to be done to the degree necessary? Also presents a problem of giving your secrets to someone else. Sure way to have it not be a secret anymore. To say it in other words, I wouldn't exactly trust the refs with our playbook in a league where teams like Buffalo have to do Amish bowling (rent "Kingpin" ) while everyone else is doing ten-pin just to ensure we don't get screwed. On 4th and 1, we need to get 3 just so there's no question.
Fezmid Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 Dude, all due respect, but they're supposed to be PROFESSIONALS! And b/w Walt Coleman being a doctor or lawyer or whatever from 8-6 M-F, when is anything like that going to be done to the degree necessary? Also presents a problem of giving your secrets to someone else. Sure way to have it not be a secret anymore. To say it in other words, I wouldn't exactly trust the refs with our playbook in a league where teams like Buffalo have to do Amish bowling (rent "Kingpin" ) while everyone else is doing ten-pin. 792660[/snapback] So what do you propose that the refs due from January (or Feb) through July? Sit and read books? Hockey refs are full time employees, and they still miss calls (No Goal, No Goal 2, etc). Football players are full-time as well, yet they frequently make mistakes. It's human nature, and I don't think making people full time is going to change that at all. I'd also add that it's a very tough job -- sign up to do highschool and see for yourself CW
AKC Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 Unless that fat phuck is related to Plastic Man or Stretch Armstrong, there is no way he was going to cover the 2 yards required to get to that thing before it hit the ground. 792131[/snapback] IIRC even at full extension Mr. Armstrong could only cover about 3.5 feet of ground before falling to pieces.
shrader Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 And again, how would full time refs help here? When I officiated football, we used to ask the coaches of both teams whether they had any trick plays they might use that we should be aware of during the game. It's helpful to know what things you might be seeing (such as a pooch kickoff like this). I wonder if they do that in the NFL. Cw 792658[/snapback] The Bills used this same exact kickoff during the Miami game. The Dolphin blocker signaled a fair catch and caught the ball. I doubt they're watching tape, but the play was already out there of the refs to be aware of.
TigerJ Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 Dick Jauron was asked about the rule after the game. He said that to his knowledge the rule does not specifically require the players from the kicking team to refrain from catching the ball if a fair catch signal is called. If the Vikings player that had made the lame and illegal fair catch signal had continued to move toward the ball instead of backing off, the Bills player would have had to move away and let him catch it. As it was, it was a bogus call, and could have been critical to the outcome of the game.
Alaska Darin Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 The Viking player immediately tried to block one of our guys. 792623[/snapback] No he didn't - but it was still a terrible call.
I 90 Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 If the Vikings player that had made the lame and illegal fair catch signal had continued to move toward the ball instead of backing off, 792690[/snapback] He actually did move towards it but veered away, touching the catcher down as he passed him. He looked scared (of being hit low) and confused. I am still willing to give him points for being clever. And this happened in the Miami game as well ? On a deeper kick ? I will have to dig that up. Bobby April should be a topic every week. .
TC in St. Louis Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 I was really upset with that penalty. Basically, April spotted some flaw in the Vikes design, and put in a play to take advantage of it. It was perfectly executed, our guy caught the ball on the fly....what a kick, and because the Vikes were half napping, we got penalized, and they got the ball no the 50. The refs were wrong, and they are asinine.
shrader Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 And this happened in the Miami game as well ? On a deeper kick ? I will have to dig that up. Bobby April should be a topic every week. 792901[/snapback] I don't remember exactly where the ball went, but Lindel did lob one out there against them too. It stood out to me because I hadn't ever remembered seeing a fair catch on a kickoff before that (other than the accidental ones in madden).
pkwwjd Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 I remember a few years back (maybe several) when they cracked down on half-hearted fair catch signals. It used to be that players would shoot their hand straight up and back down quickly -- many times getting creamed by the oncoming players b/c no one saw the signal. For a year or two, there were actually illegal procedure calls when the ref would say it was an "illegal fair catch signal". If the Vikings player did a fair catch signal, it most definitely falls into the illegal category. The rule plainly states that the hand must wave from side to side (raise one arm a full length above his head and wave it from side to side while kick is in flight). At the very least, Minnesota should have been given a 5 yard penalty from where we caught the ball. Also impeding a fair catch can only happen if the receiving player is in position to catch it. If it had been a pass, it would have been ruled uncatchable by the Vikings.
nobody Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 Aprils going to have to make sure the players keep an eye out 10 yards down the field for guys waving their hands. Then they have to let the ball hit the ground before they pick it up.
agilen Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 Aprils going to have to make sure the players keep an eye out 10 yards down the field for guys waving their hands. Then they have to let the ball hit the ground before they pick it up. 792953[/snapback] I'm sure the league will review this play, and point out to the Bills and all referees whether or not it was called correctly on the field. If it wasn't, then the Bills have to do nothing, and the referees will know how to call it properly next week.
Bflojohn Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 Officials in this league are going to have to take intent out of the mix! The play, when replayed, showed the Vikings lineman made absolutely NO effort to catch that ball. Therefore, how in the world did Kiwaukee Thomas interfere with his right to catch the ball when it's CLEAR he made no attempt!! I will gaurantee that NFL Network will not go within 100 yards of reviewing THAT call.
Bflojohn Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 Officials in this league are going to have to take intent out of the mix! The play, when replayed, showed the Vikings lineman made absolutely NO effort to catch that ball. Therefore, how in the world did Kiwaukee Thomas interfere with his right to catch the ball when it's CLEAR he made no attempt!! I will gaurantee that NFL Network will not go within 100 yards of reviewing THAT call.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 Officials in this league are going to have to take intent out of the mix! The play, when replayed, showed the Vikings lineman made absolutely NO effort to catch that ball. Therefore, how in the world did Kiwaukee Thomas interfere with his right to catch the ball when it's CLEAR he made no attempt!! I will gaurantee that NFL Network will not go within 100 yards of reviewing THAT call. 792977[/snapback] I agree...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 Officials in this league are going to have to take intent out of the mix! The play, when replayed, showed the Vikings lineman made absolutely NO effort to catch that ball. Therefore, how in the world did Kiwaukee Thomas interfere with his right to catch the ball when it's CLEAR he made no attempt!! I will gaurantee that NFL Network will not go within 100 yards of reviewing THAT call. 792991[/snapback] I disagree...
SouthernMan Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 I thought one of the commentators doing the game stated that either the kickoff or receiving teams can signal for a fair catch, if in position to do so. Did I hear this correctly? Anyone else catch that comment? And if it was said, was it a correct statement? It's bad enough when there's bogus call made, but it's even worse when it results from the officials ignorance following a seldom seen and innovative playcall. In this case, April was thinking outside the box, saw a flaw that could be exposed, had the team execute to perfection, and then had it all taken away because it was unfamiliar and foreign to the officiating crew. Did the flag come out only after a Viking coach yelled out that there was a fair catch signaled? I sometimes wonder how influenced the officials are by salesmanship from coaches, players, and fans. Are they that indecisive? Bottom line : they blew the call. More important bottom line: Bills won and we won't have to look back and ask, "what if"....this time.
Dan Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 Having recorded the game and watched the play (I'm loving the new DVR! That's to those who offered advice on the installation). The Viking guy does "appear" to call fair catch. I initially thought no way. Now granted, it was about as piss poor of a fair catch signal as there could be. My initial thought was that he was pointing to blockers. But, upon review, he did look up and then raise his right arm following by a Sabanesque wave. However, after that - he made ZERO attempt to actually catch the ball. He dropped his head and ran forward watching #25 catch the ball. Now is that interferring with the fair catch? I don't know the rule there. I also don't know the rule regarding signalling for a fair catch. I thouht there were times when guys did it and then got hit, but the ref said he didn't signal properly?? I'm not sure. Definitely, the flag came late. If there ever was one. I never saw one on the field. It wasn't for several moments before they showed the refs huddled and discussing it. However, as the Bills are running off the field with the ball, the refs can be see in the background beginning to discuss. So, they did discuss it within seconds of the Bills getting up with the ball. So, it does appear to be a penalty and the refs seem to catch it on their own with little input from the Vikes. Darn it.
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