Nice article on Ruben Brown from the

[In space no one can hear]

Ruben Brown Article

 

I'm a fan off his.

Truly one of the best Bills players ever as far as giving back to the community.

Class act Ruben Brown....and a true Buffalo booster.

 

I'm sure we will be seeing more articles on him as the Bears/Bills game approaches.

[Oneonta Buffalo Fan]

Ruben Brown Article

 

I'm a fan off his.

Truly one of the best Bills players ever as far as giving back  to the community.

Class act Ruben Brown....and a true Buffalo booster.

 

I'm sure we will be seeing more articles on him as the Bears/Bills game approaches.

790399[/snapback]

 

Wasn't the reason why we got rid of him was because he got a lot of false starts? I don't really remember, because that was several years ago.

[Omar Little]

Wasn't the reason why we got rid of him was because he got a lot of false starts?  I don't really remember, because that was several years ago.

790403[/snapback]

 

Rube was released because he had the guts to speak out against TD and Gregg W.

[Lori]

Rube was released because he had the guts to speak out against TD and Gregg W.

790414[/snapback]

Ah, yes. The infamous Brown/Gilbride conflict that ended up with Ruben staying home for the last game of the 2003 season. (At the time, how many of us envied him for having the opportunity to take a swipe at Killdrive?)

 

Here's a pretty good read from Ed Kilgore, circa March 2004:

"Some day, Ruben Brown will be making an acceptance speech in Canton, Ohio, and only then will it dawn on some Bills fans that the guy was a darn good football player."

As I See It: Ruben's Guarded Respect Factor

 

Say what you will about Brown, but how many left guards have the Bills gone through trying (and failing) to adequately replace him?

[dave mcbride]

Ah, yes. The infamous Brown/Gilbride conflict that ended up with Ruben staying home for the last game of the 2003 season. (At the time, how many of us envied him for having the opportunity to take a swipe at Killdrive?)

 

Here's a pretty good read from Ed Kilgore, circa March 2004:

Say what you will about Brown, but how many left guards have the Bills gone through trying (and failing) to adequately replace him?

790428[/snapback]

what a smart move to cut him. the bills finally stabilized the left guard position after he was sent packing.

[Pyrite Gal]

Clearly the great thing about Ruben for those of us who have met him and should be even for those who have not was the great work he did and does for charity. The folks who took the biggest hit when we traded him were the folks at charities such as the kids in the Buffalo Prep college prep program and the organ transplant folks were Ruben was a solid volunteer and supporter. He organized motorcycle rides where he not only made the typical player appearance but worked really hard for the cause.

 

On the field he did get a bunch of consecutive Pro Bowl appearances a number of which struck even those who like him personally as undeserved based on his play, but this says more about the faults of the Pro Bowl selection process than it does about his value as a Bills player and even in his worst years here he was a benefit to the team,

 

I think his best work on the field was in 2002 where despite already declining skills, he was the only player on the OL who had started before at his position as a pro with JJ having moved to LT, Teague having moved to C, MW having just been drafted anda revolving door of RGs. It really was Ruben who helped this group give up a ton of sacks with the elusive Bledsoe at QB and the predictable O of Killdrive, but this unit still blocked effectively enough for Henry to rush for well over 1200 yards, and Bledsoe to hit Moulds for 100 receptions and Peerless for 94.

 

Ruben was really a valuable player because he made the other players around him perform better. His work is particularly notable because it was clear that OL coach Vinky was not a very good coach and lost his job even though his buddt GW was in charge.

 

Great job Ruben and I am pleased to hear he is doing well and that he still makes his home in Buffalo though clearly he has the wealth to live anywhere he wants,

[MrLocke]

I thought Ross Tucker was a far better LG than Ruben was. Didn't he speak out against the former regime? Teams really used to exploit our interior o-line when Ruben was here. You can blame it on Teague all you want, but I think Ruben was also to blame.

[Fezmid]

Wasn't the reason why we got rid of him was because he got a lot of false starts?  I don't really remember, because that was several years ago.

790403[/snapback]

No, that was a myth. He didn't get very many penalties at all, actually. I did some research on it, but I don't remember the results. I think it was something like one false start every 3 games, which isn't that big a deal IMHO.

[RunTheBall]

Reuben was clearly in decline at the end of his Bills career. The fact that we weren't able to replace him was more a testament to the horrible O-line management of the TD era than his skill level at that time.

 

RTB

[Pyrite Gal]

I thought Ross Tucker was a far better LG than Ruben was. Didn't he speak out against the former regime? Teams really used to exploit our interior o-line when Ruben was here. You can blame it on Teague all you want, but I think Ruben was also to blame.

790488[/snapback]

 

I am quite certain that there were moments in time in which Tucker was playing at his best and Ruben was playing at his least effective due to age or injury when Tucker was undoubtedly a better LG than than Brown.

 

If one is making a judgement about a particular game as to who the Bills should start, if Tucker's best happened to coincide with Brown's least at that point in time, the obvious decision is to start Tucker.

 

This may even be true of a particular season (though I doubt it and there would likely need to be some other demonstration than the usual fact free opinion we are entitled to that for this particular season the stars happen to line up correctly).

 

However, if one is considering their total careers (I was gonna say to this point but a quick check reveals that unlike Ruben Tucker is no longer even in the league) I think there is little doubt that Ruben has had a far better career and overall at almost all points in time when their careers ovelapped, Ruben was a far better player.

 

To try to introduce some facts that support this opinion:

 

1. It is difficult to compare the two since their careeers did not overlap completely, but given that Ruben both was drafted prior to Tucker and has been selected by professional evaluators to have his career continue on after Tucker was forced or chose to retire to use his Princeton degress on something real, Ruben achieved a lot more as an NFL player than Tucker.

 

2. By definition Ruben was always a more experienced pro than Tucker was and folks backed up their sense that Ruben contributed to their team while Tucker did not with their money to pay him.I like Tucker and knowing the value of a PU degree , I think he is a bright boy, but professional evaluaors judged who could contribute to their teams and who could not as they evaluated both FA Brown and multiple time FA Tucker and Tucker is out of the league (whether due to injury or choice he simply wasn't a good enough player to be worth the investment).

 

3. The Pro Bowl is not a perfect evaluator of talent as to some extent it really is a popularity contest among the fans, the fellow players, and the coaches who share the choice. Nevertheless, though not perfect there are indications of good play as assessed by coaches, leadership ability and respect for play as assessed by players, and notariety from stellar play at some poiint as assessed by fans which exists so it is real that makes Pro Bowl selection a good (though not perfect) indicator. Brown was obviously judged repetitively by all parties to be a better player than Tucker.

 

4. Again in the real game given this a unit, experience and respect matters a lot in terms of play. Chemistry and coordination matter a lot more with this unit than it does with other positions where though there is coordination (for example the QB and receivers must be on the same page and make the same reads) is important there is a lot of freelancing and one of on one individual play to create achievement. For the OL to work it is critical that each player know where the other players are and they all do their jobs. What this adds up to, is that even if for a moment in time (probably brief) Tucker was a better player than Brown, you probably start Brown anyway because his experiencecopared to Tucker's is so much greater that Brown almost certainly helps the rest of an OL perform better if they are inexperienced as happened with the 02 team. In many ways it is not the key thing which player makes more mistakes than the other, but whether those mistakes of failings can be compensated for and covered by good play calling by the OC, by the players teammates who know they need to pick-up for their teammate at a particular time, and to what extent this weakness can be exploited by opponents. I would submit that Brown's weaknesses (sometimes false starts too much for example) are not critical problems which are easily exploited for sacks). They are there but I'm not sure that this adds up to Tucker being better.

 

The bottomline is when in particular are you suggesting Tucker was a better player and my sense is that this time is brief enough as to have little meaning.

[crackur]

he was cut because of his salary, and wouldnt take a paycut

[ganesh]

he was cut because of his salary, and wouldnt take a paycut

790650[/snapback]

 

and had a run-in with his HC.

[Bill from NYC]

Reuben was clearly in decline at the end of his Bills career. The fact that we weren't able to replace him was more a testament to the horrible O-line management of the TD era than his skill level at that time.

 

RTB

790559[/snapback]

 

Exactly.

Plus, I recall that at the end, he lost (wonder why? ) what looked to be 30 pounds. He was getting pushed around on pass plays, but I must admit that he was effective vs. the run at times because of his great technique.

 

None of the above is to take away from how good he was in his prime, nor what a good draft choice and good guy that he was.

[ans4e64]

Listen, Ruben Brown was one of the biggest headaches the Bills have ever had. He had so many positives and so many negatives to his game and off the field that it became ridiculous.

 

For the first 2 years in the NFL Ruben was flat out dominant. It was then that he earned is official Pro Bowl selections. Everything after that point was average. His false starts, and losing weight made him non deserving as being called one of the best LG's in the game. I clearly remember everyone around Buffalo bitching that he never deserved those other years being selected, and that the selections were a joke because it was based more on popularity rather than play. Who really pays attention to Left Guards in every game to determine who is good anyways? It's all hearsay. Now we are defending his play.

 

Now, 5 years later, we all know that Tom Donahoe and Gregg Williams were jokes. At the time however, a player speaking out against a Head Coach should never occur. Veteran, rookie, whomever. It splits the lockeroom and he became the ringleader for the rebelous acts against the coaching that year. It was wrong, he was wrong, you take those concerns directly to the coach through personal contact, not through the media or refusing to play on the field. That is not leadership.

 

Lastly, the Bills organization failing to replace the LG spot does not make Ruben's time here any better than it was. Just because we have neglected our O-Line doesnt mean that Ruben is a Hall of Famer. Ruben was old, slim, and it was his time to go.

[I 90]

Ruben was old, slim, and it was his time to go.

790676[/snapback]

 

Yup. I am not nostalgic for the Brown-Fina left side which did not provide bang for the buck. It might have been interesting to see Ruben moved to tackle in his prime.

 

Good article on his career path. It is nice to see him hold off Metcalf for the time being.

 

.

[dave mcbride]

Listen, Ruben Brown was one of the biggest headaches the Bills have ever had. He had so many positives and so many negatives to his game and off the field that it became ridiculous.

 

For the first 2 years in the NFL Ruben was flat out dominant. It was then that he earned is official Pro Bowl selections. Everything after that point was average. His false starts, and losing weight made him non deserving as being called one of the best LG's in the game. I clearly remember everyone around Buffalo bitching that he never deserved those other years being selected, and that the selections were a joke because it was based more on popularity rather than play. Who really pays attention to Left Guards in every game to determine who is good anyways? It's all hearsay. Now we are defending his play.

 

Now, 5 years later, we all know that Tom Donahoe and Gregg Williams were jokes. At the time however, a player speaking out against a Head Coach should never occur. Veteran, rookie, whomever. It splits the lockeroom and he became the ringleader for the rebelous acts against the coaching that year. It was wrong, he was wrong, you take those concerns directly to the coach through personal contact, not through the media or refusing to play on the field. That is not leadership.

 

Lastly, the Bills organization failing to replace the LG spot does not make Ruben's time here any better than it was. Just because we have neglected our O-Line doesnt mean that Ruben is a Hall of Famer. Ruben was old, slim, and it was his time to go.

790676[/snapback]

that's funny, because i thought his best season was in 01, a year when he was not voted in by players or fans to the pro bowl, but by the coaches, who made him their number one choice. he also had only 3 penalties called against him that year. regardless, he has played pretty well for the bears. he did, however, have a poor year in 03 -- there's no denying that.

[CoachChuckDickerson]

I thought Ross Tucker was a far better LG than Ruben was. Didn't he speak out against the former regime? Teams really used to exploit our interior o-line when Ruben was here. You can blame it on Teague all you want, but I think Ruben was also to blame.

790488[/snapback]

You do know that you are voted to the probowl by the guys you play against right?

[Bob in STL]

I thought Ross Tucker was a far better LG than Ruben was. Didn't he speak out against the former regime? Teams really used to exploit our interior o-line when Ruben was here. You can blame it on Teague all you want, but I think Ruben was also to blame.

790488[/snapback]

 

 

Wow! Please, tell me your joking.