Willis is #1

[Risin]

The point was not to compare Willis to MW as a blocker, but to compare the treatment various players get from this board when they screw up.  I guess I've just read one too many "JP's turnovers cost us the game" posts that imply that we should excuse a RB -- and our supposed 'star' -- for not being able to carry out his blocking assignments, or that his blocking failure was not a direct cause of the fumble/TD.

 

Look, I'm not expecting him to pancake the guy, but WTF -- how hard is it to get in his way and slow him down from a full sprint?

787655[/snapback]

 

 

Great post.

 

Also, to the guy who said Willis had huge holes to run through, he did.

 

You still have to give him credit for gaining yards, even if the holes were there.

 

Willis on third and long is a failure, at this point.

 

He is not a good receiver, and I'm not going to get into the pass blocking.

 

I hope Willis pans out in Buffalo, but won't be hurt if he's gone. He is not a star in this league, and not close to being a great player. (yet)

 

It is also ironic, some of Willis's biggest nuthuggers , are the same people that pick JP apart.

 

Even though running back is a much easier position to master, and there are cases where guys are great before their mental ability catches up with their physical ability. (same can't be said for QB)

 

I personally think this is the first season Willis is completely healthy, and will go a long way in determining what kind of player he's gonna be. He has shown flashes of brilliance, and moments of idiotic behavior on the field, much like a young QB we have.

 

It wouldn't be fair of me, or anybody, to defend JP and throw Willis under the bus. I think they both will be just fine, but Willis has the ability to be a superstar.

[BuffOrange]

It wouldn't be fair of me, or anybody, to defend JP and throw Willis under the bus.

 

At least you admit you're not fair.

[Risin]

At least you admit you're not fair.

787665[/snapback]

 

 

You're a moron.

 

Welcome to the ignore list.

[daquixers_is_back]

Great post.

 

Also,  to the guy who said Willis had huge holes to run through,  he did.

 

You still have to give him credit for gaining yards,  even if the holes were there.

 

Willis on third and long is a failure,  at this point.

 

He is not a good receiver,  and I'm not going to get into the pass blocking.

 

I hope Willis pans out in Buffalo,  but won't be hurt if he's gone.  He is not a star in this league,  and not close to being a great player. (yet)

 

It is also ironic,  some of Willis's biggest nuthuggers ,  are the same people that pick JP apart.

 

Even though running back is a much easier position to master,  and there are cases where guys are great before their mental ability catches up with their physical ability.  (same can't be said for QB)

 

I personally think this is the first season Willis is completely healthy,  and will go a long way in determining what kind of player he's gonna be.  He has shown flashes of brilliance,  and moments of idiotic behavior on the field,  much like a young QB we have.

 

It wouldn't be fair of me,  or anybody,  to defend JP and throw Willis under the bus.  I think they both will be just fine,  but Willis has the ability to be a superstar.

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Tell me your not serious ... my head is hurting from the ammount of ... 'odd' ... posts today. He is not a star in this league? He is not a great player yet? Well tell me. What is it going to take for him to be? Was Tiki Barber not a star because he fumbled? Was Terrel Owens not a star because he talked to much? Was Jim Kelly not a star because he lost Super Bowls? Willis ranks #1 in the NFL in total yards, and yards per game, and he is on pace for nearly 1700 yards ... and yet you say he is not a great back. I am flabbergasted.

[BuffOrange]

You're a moron.

 

Welcome to the ignore list.

787666[/snapback]

 

Damnit! My dreams are shattered. Retard.

[MDH]

Tell me your not serious ... my head is hurting from the ammount of ... 'odd' ... posts today. He is not a star in this league? He is not a great player yet? Well tell me. What is it going to take for him to be? Was Tiki Barber not a star because he fumbled? Was Terrel Owens not a star because he talked to much? Was Jim Kelly not a star because he lost Super Bowls? Willis ranks #1 in the NFL in total yards, and yards per game, and he is on pace for nearly 1700 yards ... and yet you say he is not a great back. I am flabbergasted.

787669[/snapback]

 

Nobody remembers who lead the league in rushing after week 3. Call him a great back after he actually puts up 1500+ yards for two years in a row and averages more than 4 ypc. I think he's capable of doing it, but thinking he can do it and him actually going out and producing are two different things.

[Risin]

Tell me your not serious ... my head is hurting from the ammount of ... 'odd' ... posts today. He is not a star in this league? He is not a great player yet? Well tell me. What is it going to take for him to be? Was Tiki Barber not a star because he fumbled? Was Terrel Owens not a star because he talked to much? Was Jim Kelly not a star because he lost Super Bowls? Willis ranks #1 in the NFL in total yards, and yards per game, and he is on pace for nearly 1700 yards ... and yet you say he is not a great back. I am flabbergasted.

787669[/snapback]

 

 

How is he a star?

 

He has had seasons of:

 

1128 yds

1247 yds

and 311 yds so far. (i don't care what he's on pace for, he's had 1 monster game)

 

He has averaged:

 

4.0 ypc (a star?)

3.8 ypc (a great player?)

and 4.4 (so far)

 

He has had receiving totals of:

 

169 yds

178 yds

and 33 yds (so far)

 

I'm sorry, I must've missed where those stats equal greatness.

 

Is Steven Jackson a star?

 

673 yds 5.0 ypc

1046 yds 4.1 ypc

286 yds 4.2 ypc

 

Receiving:

 

189yds

320 yds

99 yds. (so far)

 

To me, they are pretty comparable players at this stage, yet nobody considers Steven Jackson a star. I bet you most here would pick Willis over Steven, even though Steven is a more versatile back.

 

I don't know what Willis has done to be labled a star in this league, but please enlighten me.

[Acantha]

I just went back and watched "the whiff" again (hadn't watched it since the game), and you know what...I'm less pissed at McGahee now that I have another look. (Unlike most who seem to get more pissed each time they watch it)

 

Yes, he screwed up, but I swear from how a lot of people around here have been talking you would think that he was just kind of lounging around watching people run past him. What really happened? He took the wrong angle. It's pretty much that simple.

 

He saw the blitzer, ran out to meet him, and took the wrong angle. Losman took a 7 step drop, and the defender changed to direction and took the straightest line to him. McGahee ran to block the blitzer was originally taking. If it had been a 3 step drop, McGahee would have been in perfect position.

 

Is this McGahee's fault? Absolutely. He should know the call and where Losman is going to be (at least as far is the 7 step drop goes) and know have some clue as to the angle the defenders are going to take.

 

That said...and this is in response to KD in CT "how hard is it to get in his way and slow him down from a full sprint?", it wasn't an easy block. The guy already had a full head of steam, and McGahee was in the process of moving torward him to stop his progress when the move was made to go outside instead of in. When that happened, McGahee was put on his heals trying to get back into position and just couldn't get there.

 

IMO, he shouldn't have run forward to make the block. He had good position and if he had let the defender come to him, would have at least slowed him down long enough.

So yes, he made a mistake. I'm sure he has been shown the film and will be coached and try to learn from it. But I don't think he deserves to be called out the way he is. Yes, it gave up 7 points, and that just can't happen, but hopefully it's a learning experience and our league leading rusher can keep getting better at his lacking areas.

[daquixers_is_back]

Nobody remembers who lead the league in rushing after week 3.  Call him a great back after he actually puts up 1500+ yards for two years in a row and averages more than 4 ypc.  I think he's capable of doing it, but thinking he can do it and him actually going out and producing are two different things.

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thats fine ... at least someone told me what it takes to great for this message board:

 

mark this down note takers:

 

to be great on this board you must have multiple years of 1500+ yards and an average of more than 4 YPC

 

Good to know, now I can take Rudi Johnson, Corey Dillon, Curtis Martin, Thurman Thomas, Emmit Smith (except for once early in his career where he got over 1500 2 years in a row), Brian Westbrook, Ahman Green, Jerome Bettis, Larry Johnson, and Warrick Dunn out of the lists of "great" because they dont meet out standards.

 

Boy I cant wait until someone tells me what it takes to be a great QB on this board.

[Risin]

Faustus, I think most people are pissed about the block, because this is becoming a habit.

 

It has happened 3 times, that I can remember, since preseason.

[daquixers_is_back]

How is he a star?

 

He has had seasons of:

 

1128 yds

1247 yds

and 311 yds so far.  (i don't care what he's on pace for,  he's had 1 monster game)

 

He has averaged:

 

4.0 ypc  (a star?)

3.8 ypc  (a great player?)

and 4.4  (so far)

 

He has had receiving totals of:

 

169 yds

178 yds

and 33 yds (so far)

 

I'm sorry,  I must've missed where those stats equal greatness. 

 

Is Steven Jackson a star?

 

673 yds 5.0 ypc

1046 yds 4.1 ypc

286 yds 4.2 ypc

 

Receiving:

 

189yds

320 yds

99 yds. (so far)

 

To me,  they are pretty comparable players at this stage,  yet nobody considers Steven Jackson a star.  I bet you most here would pick Willis over Steven,  even though Steven is a more versatile back.

 

I don't know what Willis has done to be labled a star in this league,  but please enlighten me.

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You have to look at the whole picture. Its who he is working with. Put Willis behind the line of KC, or Denver, or even St. Louis and he does A TON better. Its not his fault that his line sucks. Think about it. Stats dont tell everything. There is a reason why Willis McGahee is pretty much the only person on offense that other teams fear. Its not because he is a so-so player. Its because he is a VERY GOOD player stuck behind a bad line. JMO

[Risin]

Boy I cant wait until someone tells me what it takes to be a great QB on this board. 

787683[/snapback]

 

 

Any QB the Bills passed on, in this years draft.

 

[MDH]

thats fine ... at least someone told me what it takes to great for this message board:

 

mark this down note takers:

 

to be great on this board you must have multiple years of 1500+ yards and an average of more than 4 YPC

 

Good to know, now I can take Rudi Johnson, Corey Dillon, Curtis Martin, Thurman Thomas, Emmit Smith (except for once early in his career where he got over 1500 2 years in a row), Brian Westbrook, Ahman Green, Jerome Bettis, Larry Johnson, or Warrick Dunn.

 

Boy I cant wait until someone tells me what it takes to be a great QB on this board. 

787683[/snapback]

 

As opposed to your definition of a great back which was, "he's leading the league in rushing in week 3!"

 

I'll take my definition over yours any day.

 

And btw, none of the backs on that list are great with the exception of Thurman and Martin (Emmitt as you said actually met the criteria). Perhaps this is the issue, you want to label every good back you see as "GREAT!"

[Risin]

You have to look at the whole picture. Its who he is working with. Put Willis behind the line of KC, or Denver, or even St. Louis and he does A TON better. Its not his fault that his line sucks. Think about it. Stats dont tell everything. There is a reason why Willis McGahee is pretty much the only person on offense that other teams fear. Its not because he is a so-so player. Its because he is a VERY GOOD player stuck behind a bad line. JMO

787686[/snapback]

 

 

So we agree.

 

Why are we arguing?

 

I agree Willis is a VERY GOOD player, I said he wasn't great. (yet)

 

If you read the end of my post, I think he has the potential to be a superstar.

[daquixers_is_back]

As opposed to your definition of a great back which was, "he's leading the league in rushing in week 3!"

 

I'll take my definition over yours any day.

 

And btw, none of the backs on that list are great with the exception of Thurman and Martin (Emmitt as you said actually met the criteria).  Perhaps this is the issue, you want to label every good back you see as "GREAT!"

787691[/snapback]

 

I guess we just disagree. Thats OK. Im not saying that "he's leading the league in rushing in week 3!" is my definition of a great back. I was just bringing it up. As I said in another post. Think about the lines he has. Look at more than just stats.

 

BTW: I dont think Emmit Smith and Walter Peyton should make the "greats" list because they only met your criteria ONCE in there 10-15 year career ... so they were one great once in their career and they they were just average.

 

I dont know. I just dont agree with that.

[Acantha]

Let me add that while I don't blame JP for the fumble, he MUST learn to feel the pressure better (yes, I think this will come with time)

 

He had a great pocket to step up into....which he did start to do when the outside guys started getting close....but instead of taking off (there was a HUGE hole he could have gone to) he did that stutter step with his armed cocked back getting ready to thow thing that he keeps doing. (Is that driving anyone else nuts besides me??)

 

Losman is showing a lot of improvements, but his inexperience really does shine through quite a bit. I really hate MM for screwing up his progress last year.

[daquixers_is_back]

So we agree.

 

Why are we arguing?

 

I agree Willis is a VERY GOOD player,  I said he wasn't great.  (yet)

 

If you read the end of my post,  I think he has the potential to be a superstar.

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I think our wording is messing each other up. When I say "very good" for some reason I think "great." I have to get over that thinking.

[Risin]

Let me add that while I don't blame JP for the fumble, he MUST learn to feel the pressure better (yes, I think this will come with time)

 

He had a great pocket to step up into....which he did start to do when the outside guys started getting close....but instead of taking off (there was a HUGE hole he could have gone to) he did that stutter step with his armed cocked back getting ready to thow thing that he keeps doing.  (Is that driving anyone else nuts besides me??)

 

Losman is showing a lot of improvements, but his inexperience really does shine through quite a bit.  I really hate MM for screwing up his progress last year.

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Yes, I agree with your second paragraph.

 

JP was raw coming out of college, so we expected him to take awhile.

 

As much as it pains me to say it, MM isn't fully to blame for JP not progressing quickly.

 

Some of that falls on JP too.

[Risin]

I think our wording is messing each other up. When I say "very good" for some reason I think "great." I have to get over that thinking.

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It really is the same thing.

 

Each person has his own way of rating a player.

 

When I think of great, I think of Walter, Thurman, Barry, Priest, Marshall etc.

 

I'm just not ready to put Willis there yet.

[daquixers_is_back]

It really is the same thing.

 

Each person has his own way of rating a player.

 

When I think of great,  I think of Walter,  Thurman,  Barry,  Priest,  Marshall etc.

 

I'm just not ready to put Willis there yet.

787716[/snapback]

 

Yep! I guess thats where we differentiate. lol