Joe D comments on Fergy's analysis

[Peter]

I get that. So why do you think he is the worst quarterback in the league and will never amount to anything ever?

See how dumb that is? 

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I don't. Where do you get that?

[Kelly the Dog]

I don't.  Where do you get that?

787566[/snapback]

I was pointing out how dumb it was for me to say that. It was the same leap you made, in reverse, saying that Losman supporters think he is perfect.

[Buftex]

Where on earth do you or buftex make the Evel Kneival sized leap from refuting the fact that Losman locks on his receivers to those same posters implying they think that Losman is perfect? Where does that come from? Numerous posters in this thread and others have been defending JP's play in various aspects of it. No one to my knowledge has said he is great. No one came close to implying that he was already great. No one insisted he doesn't make mistakes. Everyone supporting him, as far as I can tell, are saying we can live with the growing pains because we see strides being made, we see talent. The detractors seem to be the only ones making outlandish statements, like "do you guys really think JP is perfect".

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I know there is probably no point in replying, but here goes, one last time...you know, I wasn't even criticizing Losman (like you, I can live with his growing pains, and am very encouraged by what I have seen this year), just relaying something I thought might be of interest. I think the essence of what Ferguson was saying was completely lost (when he scrambles around to buy time, he is locking onto one guy, rather than keeping his eyes down field, and seeing other guys getting open, is what I got from what he said), but whatever. It seems like we are arguing about semantics, and that always gets repetitive, and tiring.

 

Not you specifically Kelly, but there are others (read some of the current threads) who will whip out a million excuses for everything that went wrong, and blame it on everyone, but JP. I was always accused of being a "Bledsoe-apologist", and I just see the same thing going on here. No big deal. We are all fans of the team, and want them to win. We all seem to have different opinions on what we are seeing from time to time. I suspect, the truths may lie somewhere in the middle. Statistics can sometimes tell the whole story, and can sometimes miss the point of the story.

 

I wish I had the game on tape, so I could give you exact specifics, but I thought I saw at least two occaisions in the second half, where JP looked down field for a long time, when he had Willis open in the flat, and Peerless on another play (for what would have likely been first down yardage) but instead threw deep incompletions. I have noticed this before, though, admittedly, not as much this year.

 

Whatever credibility Joe Ferguson might have with you, or anyone else here (and I do like all you guys deep down), I would give his observation more creedence than Mile High, or, dare I say it, Kelly the Fair & Balanced Dog.

 

As for outlandish statements, there may have been some on my part (again, I am not so great at injecting sarcasim into my posts), mostly made with good-natured ribbing. You made a few yourself, most of which were completely irrelevent toward whatever point you were making...just swipes at Ferguson...

 

Who knows, maybe Fergy really is just an old bitter average QB, with an ax to grind. I don't sense that at all...the fact that his comments were made off the record made them all the more interesting to me.

[Peter]

I was pointing out how dumb it was for me to say that. It was the same leap you made, in reverse, saying that Losman supporters think he is perfect.

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Basically, what I am referring to is the overreaction of some -- not really you. For example, there are those who go out of their way to trash WM and think that he should be run out of town and, at the same time, are a lot more forgiving of any particular mistake that JP may make. They also go out of their way to shoot the messenger (in this case Joe Ferguson) if someone makes even the slightest remark about JP that can be construed as negative. For what it is worth, I trust Joe Ferguson's observation (especially one made in private) about JP than Jerry Sullivan or anyone on this board. It may be worth considering rather than attacking Fergy because he made some private comment about JP.

 

The one thing I like about JP is that he seems to want to get better and better and realizes that there is room for improvement. I think that JP would be a lot less touchy about a remark like this one (coming from a former NFL QB who played many years in the league) than some of the people on this board who go off the deep end when something like this comes up.

[Buftex]

Basically, what I am referring to is the overreaction of some -- not really you.  For example, there are those who go out of their way to trash WM and think that he should be run out of town and, at the same time, are a lot more forgiving of any particular mistake that JP may make.  They also go out of their way to shoot the messenger (in this case Joe Ferguson) if someone makes even the slightest remark about JP that can be construed as negative.  For what it is worth, I trust Joe Ferguson's observation (especially one made in private) about JP than Jerry Sullivan or anyone on this board.  It may be worth considering rather than attacking Fergy because he made some private comment about JP.

 

The one thing I like about JP is that he seems to want to get better and better and realizes that there is room for improvement.  I think that JP would be a lot less touchy about a remark like this one (coming from a former NFL QB who played many years in the league) than some of the people on this board who go off the deep end when something like this comes up.

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Can you ghost-write all of my posts as I struggle through this difficult time?

 

BTW- seriously, it is hard to keep up with a good thread when you are at work!

[VABills]

You know it's funny that Rob Johnson was mentioned here. In fact if you go back, Johnson who had all the potential and actually had a great qb rating here was pretty much run out of town after 3-4 years. I know it was 4 but with injuries, and all, he basically was forced out even bfore his forth year. If you go by stats alone Johnson was light years ahead of JP. Plus he had a strong arm, good wheels, etc... Just like JP, but like JP he tends to be a little loose with the football, struggles in the red zone, injuries, and really not winning the hearts of the players and fans. The one difference I see is that Johnson was more accurate. But he never had that winning mentality and just seemed to lose us games. I don't know , thinking out loud I guess.

[MDH]

You know it's funny that Rob Johnson was mentioned here.  In fact if you go back, Johnson who had all the potential and actually had a great qb rating here was  pretty much run out of town after 3-4 years.  I know it was 4 but with injuries, and all, he basically was forced out even bfore his forth year.  If you go by stats alone Johnson was light years ahead of JP.  Plus he had a strong arm, good wheels, etc...  Just like JP, but like JP he tends to be a little loose with the football, struggles in the red zone, injuries, and really not winning the hearts of the players and fans.  The one difference I see is that Johnson was more accurate.  But he never had that winning mentality and just seemed to lose us games.  I don't know , thinking out loud I guess.

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Rob Johnson was loose with the football? Umm, okay. The guy rarely took chances with the football.

 

Johnson's only problems were his lack of pocket awareness and his inability to make quick decisions when necessary (granted, these two things are HUGE issues). JP has shown pretty good awareness (with the occasional brain fart) and has gotten steadily better at getting rid of the ball when he needs to. Had Rob made the strides that JP has already made he would have been a stellar QB instead of a dud.

 

JP has things he needs to improve upon; Accuracy (which is improving), he needs to learn when to tuck the ball and just take a sack (which Johnson had NO problems doing), he needs to get more comfortable so he is truly in command on the field and he needs to learn how to put a little more touch on some balls (like screens).

 

They’re both mobile, strong armed QBs from California but other than that their strengths and weaknesses are quite different. I don’t know if JP will ever be a top flight QB but I do know that he doesn’t have the significant negatives that plagued RJ.

[Rico]

So does that make you a "Fergy-basher" or a "JP-enthusiast"!   

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Fergy-basher!

[Nanker]

Matt Millen played in the NFL.

He says JP sucks.

Must be true.

 

Question: If JP was "locking onto his receivers" in such a noticable way as Joe D. claims Fergy claimed, then don't you think just a teensy-weensie bit that his coaches would notice that too? What, game films are dissected to the nth degree except in Buffalo? I don't believe that any more than I do the casual observations of a mediocre at best former NFL QB.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Matt Millen played in the NFL.

He says JP sucks.

Must be true.

I never played in the NFL.

I say Millen sucks.

So much for former players automatically being able to judge NFL talent.

[BADOLBILZ]

Plus, Fergy doesn't like players who hold their heads up after making mistakes. He thinks it's showy.

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[BuffOrange]

You know it's funny that Rob Johnson was mentioned here.  In fact if you go back, Johnson who had all the potential and actually had a great qb rating here was  pretty much run out of town after 3-4 years.  I know it was 4 but with injuries, and all, he basically was forced out even bfore his forth year.  If you go by stats alone Johnson was light years ahead of JP.  Plus he had a strong arm, good wheels, etc...  Just like JP, but like JP he tends to be a little loose with the football, struggles in the red zone, injuries, and really not winning the hearts of the players and fans.  The one difference I see is that Johnson was more accurate.  But he never had that winning mentality and just seemed to lose us games.  I don't know , thinking out loud I guess.

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This has crossed my mind as well. The primary difference seems to be that we don't have a fan/media favorite midget on the bench now. Also, the expectations were a lot higher back then even though in retrospect, the talent level in 2000-2001 kinda sucked.

[34-78-83]

One of the biggest things that already separates JP from many of the previous Bills QB duds he gets compared to here is his ability to make and execute a hot read. It's not rocket science but for some reason, from Collins to Drew to Johnson, etc, etc. none of those guys were able to do that on any sort of competant level here.

[Trip]

Losman's problem was he fumbled the ball when he got hit. That's it. Nothing else. Looking off his receivers have nothing to do with fumbling the ball when your arm gets hit.

 

He hit 22-36 for 328 yards.

 

I wonder how good Joe Ferguson thinks Losman's numbers would have been if he did look off his primary receiver? Maybe he would have completed 75% of his throws. For 420 yards.

 

It's great that WGR wants to bring in all of these ex-Buffalo Bills to tell everyone what the teams problems are, but I just wish they had something to say.

[dave mcbride]

Exactly!

 

And then it turned into a bunch of stats that don't really prove or disprove anything, and a few sarcastic responses...hell, I wasn't even necessarilly saying I agreed with what Ferguson had to say, only recounting what he said...I just thought it was interesting.  I have only seen JP play live, once.  It was last years game in San Antonio, against the Saints. Back then, I will say, JP locked onto recievers.  It may be that he still does, at critical times...

 

I don't think the critique was meant to mean every single play.  But I forget, we are all very literal here. Watching on television yesterday, I saw at two instances where JP ignored (or didn't see) much better targets, not as far down field (McGahee & Peerless Price), which likely would have resulted first downs, in favor of longer throws that went incomplete. 

 

I went on to the board this morning, and saw people blaming the loss on Willis McGahees' poor blocking, Jaurons' decision making, wide receivers not playing hard enough,  etc etc...why is observing a possible bad tendancy in Losmans' game such a mortal sin?

Don't take it so hard Kelly, I have too much respect for you to refer to you as Mr Rove!

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don't listen to 'em, buftex -- you're one of the fairest minded and most charitable posters here, and for you to relay something you heard on the radio and then run into this buzzsaw operated by pitbulls ... well, whatever indeed.

[Peter]

don't listen to 'em, buftex -- you're one of the fairest minded and most charitable posters here, and for you to relay something you heard on the radio and then run into this buzzsaw operated by pitbulls ... well, whatever indeed.

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What DM said.

[BuffOrange]

What DM said.

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[Bill from NYC]

I also think he is a challenge for the coaches to handle in terms of keeping his head on straight.  JP is pretty emotional and he really, really, really cares about each and every play.  He is the type to really get mad himself over every mistake and that is not good.  He needs to keep those emotions in check and focus on the game.  This is one where the coaches should probably back off on the criticism and instead concentrate on all the good things he did so he doesn't overreact the way so many fans have. 

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Seriously, the above is probably the best thing you have ever posted not only about JP, but qbs in general, until the part calling for the coaches to "back off."

 

JP was coddled enough by the last regime in terms of being handed the job for no reason (not his fault). He has come a long way, and if being ordered by the coaches to settle down will speed his development and result in wins for the Buffalo Bills Football Team, maybe he should suck it up and listen.

 

Remember Catfish Hunter with the Yankees? He would give up a 500 foot home run, not change his expression, and strike out the side. Jim Kelly won some games in the 4th quarter where he was way off for the first 3. I could go on and on, but this is simply what leaders are able to do.

 

I think that one thing everyone agrees on is that JP has talent. IF his head is the major problem, then this is exactly what should be addressed by Jauron and company.

I hope it works becaue again, JP does have the physical attributes needed to be a good qb down the road.

[Mickey]

Not that it really matters but I think you're confusing the TD play with 2nd down play a series latter where JP hit Roscoe on a 20 yard out (with a perfectly thrown ball btw).

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I could have imagined it but at the end of that play my Dad and I talked about how it looked like he changed the play at the line. My wife didn't tape it for me as she usually does so I can't be sure.

[Mickey]

Seriously, the above is probably the best thing you have ever posted not only about JP, but qbs in general, until the part calling for the coaches to "back off."

 

JP was coddled enough by the last regime in terms of being handed the job for no reason (not his fault). He has come a long way, and if being ordered by the coaches to settle down will speed his development and result in wins for the Buffalo Bills Football Team, maybe he should suck it up and listen.

 

Remember Catfish Hunter with the Yankees? He would give up a 500 foot home run, not change his expression, and strike out the side. Jim Kelly won some games in the 4th quarter where he was way off for the first 3. I could go on and on, but this is simply what leaders are able to do.

 

I think that one thing everyone agrees on is that JP has talent. IF his head is the major problem, then this is exactly what should be addressed by Jauron and company.

I hope it works becaue again, JP does have the physical attributes needed to be a good qb down the road.

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I'm no psych major so I am just going off my own experiences as an athlete and coach. Bring them down when they are too high and pick them up when they are too low is a general rule I always used. Some guys are self critical in the extreme and others blame everyone else but themselves. I don't know what kind of guy JP is but watching his post game pc I thought I heard a lot of tension in his voice. Everyone was talking about turnovers costing us the game which to him I am sure sounded like "JP lost us the game" because, after all, he was the one who turned the ball over.

 

Despite the turnovers though, he really threw the ball very, very well under extremely bad weather for throwing the ball. I'd hate for him to lose sight of that because of the city-wide freak out over having lost that game.