Risin Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Your rebuttal was that Losman threw the ball around to a bunch of different receivers, which, frankly, deosn't mean anything other than that he threw the ball around to a bunch of different receivers. The point that seems to being missed, over and over, as far as I know, Ferguson made the comments to Joe D, not necessarily for public consumption. Also, as far as I know, Ferguson wasn't being paid to make the comments, like Smerlas or Tasker. Unless I am oblivious to something else, other than something Ferguson may have said to Jim Kelly many years ago, Ferguson doesn't have any record of being anti-Bills, or of being resentful toward the franchise, or Losman for that matter. 787420[/snapback] I think Joe's comments have been shoved up his ass, by numerous posters in this thread. No way JP was locking onto one receiver all day. Anyone see a crow circling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted September 26, 2006 Author Share Posted September 26, 2006 I think Joe's comments have been shoved up his ass, by numerous posters in this thread. No way JP was locking onto one receiver all day. Anyone see a crow circling? 787428[/snapback] Oh you again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risin Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Oh you again... 787430[/snapback] Calling them as I see them... again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Your rebuttal was that Losman threw the ball around to a bunch of different receivers, which, frankly, doesn't prove anything other than that he threw the ball around to a bunch of different receivers. The point that seems to being missed, over and over, as far as I know, Ferguson made the comments to Joe D, not necessarily for public consumption. Also, as far as I know, Ferguson wasn't being paid to make the comments, like Smerlas or Tasker. Unless I am oblivious to something else, other than something Ferguson may have said to Jim Kelly many years ago, Ferguson doesn't have any record of being anti-Bills, or of being resentful toward the franchise, or Losman for that matter. 787420[/snapback] No, my rebuttal was a couple passes to Evans, and 4-5 to McGahee refuted it, the hot reads refuted it. The spreading around seemed to refute it. The non-existence of any plays with him looking and looking and then throwing into double coverage refuted it. And the general observations of watching the 44 pass plays seemed to refute it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 It means a lot of things. It means the two deep passes to Evans were not locking on a receiver. It means the 4-5 checkdowns to Willis were not locking on a receiver. It means that a lot of the "reads" people talk about are actually read at the LOS and as soon as the ball is snapped, for example, the TD to Parrish, who wasn't the primary receiver on the play at all but the Jets did something at the snap, Losman made the read and threw immediately to the hot receiver, which went for a TD. You get a lot of distribution when that happens and your quarterback is making his reads on the go. Outside of the ill-advised Evans INT there were many or even any passes I can remember where he locked on aguy who wasnt open and then forced it into obvious double coverage where it was a mistake. There may have been one but I can't recall it off hand. 786603[/snapback] My recollection is that JP changed the play at the line on Roscoe's TD. With all due respect to Fergy, buying time to allow a receiver to get free is what good QB's do but we are finding fault even in that. Go figure. I am sure that at his experience level as a player and with this new offense, he probably doesn't see the field as much as he will in the future. I just don't get why people aren't excited as hell about this guy after all the good things he showed on Sunday. You know how cautious and skeptical I have been about him but even I am satisfied with his play. Not despite the Jet game but because of the Jet game. I thought his biggest problem was accuracy, especially missing open receivers too often. He has definitely improved there. Yes, he still struggles a bit on that score but not much. He is getting the ball out quicker and stepping in to the pocket when the edge pressure hits rather than running backwards and everywhich-a-way. I think he needs to work on his decision making when the protection totally breaks down. Especially when he hangs on trying to make a play and then leaves himself no time to throw the ball away. That is going to happen once in awhile and I don't mind that, I am not one who subscribes to the theory that the QB should throw the ball away at the first sign of trouble, Marion style. When that does happen though, he has got to know when there is time to throw it away and when there isn't even time enough to do that and he just has to tuck it in and take the sack. I also think he is a challenge for the coaches to handle in terms of keeping his head on straight. JP is pretty emotional and he really, really, really cares about each and every play. He is the type to really get mad himself over every mistake and that is not good. He needs to keep those emotions in check and focus on the game. This is one where the coaches should probably back off on the criticism and instead concentrate on all the good things he did so he doesn't overreact the way so many fans have. He has worked long and hard to be able to finally throw the ball around the way he was on Sunday and he can't enjoy it because of "the fumble". If they can keep him from getting too uptight, I think he will bounce back with a great game on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 No, my rebuttal was a couple passes to Evans, and 4-5 to McGahee refuted it, the hot reads refuted it. The spreading around seemed to refute it. The non-existence of any plays with him looking and looking and then throwing into double coverage refuted it. And the general observations of watching the 44 pass plays seemed to refute it. 787434[/snapback] You and your facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 As was said earlier, IF JP was locking-onto WR's he would have been intercepted much more than he was, which was on a play where he got hit as he released the ball. The pass distribution is another clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Your rebuttal was that Losman threw the ball around to a bunch of different receivers, which, frankly, doesn't prove anything other than that he threw the ball around to a bunch of different receivers. The point that seems to being missed, over and over, as far as I know, Ferguson made the comments to Joe D, not necessarily for public consumption. Also, as far as I know, Ferguson wasn't being paid to make the comments, like Smerlas or Tasker. Unless I am oblivious to something else, other than something Ferguson may have said to Jim Kelly many years ago, Ferguson doesn't have any record of being anti-Bills, or of being resentful toward the franchise, or Losman for that matter. 787420[/snapback] I have tons of respect for Fergy and I am sure JP isn't seeing he field as well as he will in the future as he gains experience both as an NFL starter and with this new offense as well. Even so, the numbers show that JP was moving the ball around pretty good so whatever locking in he did, it wasn't much. That is why he has gone three games with only 1 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted September 26, 2006 Author Share Posted September 26, 2006 Calling them as I see them... again. 787431[/snapback] I think you got the wrong guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBFan1971 Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 I remember very well - Fergie and Kelly's first years with the Bills. They didn't do so well and were major disappoints. Some of their problems: Poor decision making (people forget all the bonehead Fergie and Kelly plays). Lack of field awareness. Locking onto receivers. Poor time management (remember the final drive against the Giants in the SB?). They got better. JP is getting better. Let's see what kind of progress JP has made by the end of the year. If he doesn't continue to progress (aka Rob Johnson), then we got a major problem. With regards to - being clutch, that too - only time will tell. Not everyone gets a rookie like Big Ben or Tom Brady or Marino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Aren't some of you guys overreacting to Fergy's comments? Fergy is not saying he should be run out of town (as some of you want to do to some of our other players). Do you guys really think that JP is perfect? I don't, and I am sure, neither does JP. JP is showing signs that he could be a good QB, but he (and pretty much most of the team) certainly have room for improvement). He is a young QB who is going to make mistakes (just like some of our other players for whom many of you are much less forgiving). If Fergy noticed something about locking into wrs, that does not mean that Fergy is saying that he is a horrible QB. Perhaps, it would be more wise to take this as constructive criticism -- as I am sure JP does when the coaches (or others who know what the hell they are talking about) offer him advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted September 26, 2006 Author Share Posted September 26, 2006 Aren't some of you guys overreacting to Fergy's comments? Fergy is not saying he should be run out of town (as some of you want to do to some of our other players). Do you guys really think that JP is perfect? I don't, and I am sure, neither does JP. JP is showing signs that he could be a good QB, but he (and pretty much most of the team) certainly have room for improvement). He is a young QB who is going to make mistakes (just like some of our other players for whom many of you are much less forgiving). If Fergy noticed something about locking into wrs, that does not mean that Fergy is saying that he is a horrible QB. Perhaps, it would be more wise to take this as constructive criticism -- as I am sure JP does when the coaches (or others who know what the hell they are talking about) offer him advice. 787464[/snapback] That was pretty much my point, I feel more stupid than normal, for getting dragged into a really silly argument...thanks for being a voice of reason. I feel bad, it seems I have uwittingly put Joe Ferguson on the top 10 for "JP-enthusiasts", for what seems like a pretty harmless observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 My recollection is that JP changed the play at the line on Roscoe's TD. 787435[/snapback] Not that it really matters but I think you're confusing the TD play with 2nd down play a series latter where JP hit Roscoe on a 20 yard out (with a perfectly thrown ball btw). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 I feel bad, it seems I have uwittingly put Joe Ferguson on the top 10 for "JP-enthusiasts", for what seems like a pretty harmless observation. 787467[/snapback] Nah, I just hadn't bashed Fergy for awhile, had to get it out of my system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted September 26, 2006 Author Share Posted September 26, 2006 Nah, I just hadn't bashed Fergy for awhile, had to get it out of my system. 787521[/snapback] So does that make you a "Fergy-basher" or a "JP-enthusiast"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 My sense is that Joe D probably has it wrong because 1]. A key for many good athletes at skill positions is that they simply see the field differently than you and I, an OL player like Joe or even lesser QBs. Eye test of folks like Gretzky have found that they have much wider effective peripheral vision than a normal person. He could not move his head side to side, but he could still see from one barrier to the other side of the rink, It would not be surprising to find that some successful QBs actually do not need to move their head very far to go through the progessions. In fact, if a QB minimizes his head movements to make reads he will throw off the D which is trying to read where he is looking by how he turns his head. In addition to wider peripheral vision, some athletes see a different game becaise they can predict (or sometimes distinguish individual sounds even amidat the morass of game and crowd noise) to determine how a player is proceeding with his route. A simpler uncomplicated example would be if before the play a QB knows the route and reads the coverage and knows that only one defender is in a position where he can defend the pass if he gets to a certain spot. He has "chemistry" with and knows his receiver so he merely needs to watch the defender to see if he is going to that spot and if he is not the route is quite likely to be open. We have all seen plays where the QB throws to a vacant spot where a player was supposed to be but he blew the route, or he threw to the player and did not see a defender who obviously was there,or plays like Crowell INY of Culpepper where no one knew whom he was throwing to and it looked like he did not even look. Actually, he might not have looked where he was throwing because the mistake he made was thinking that he had everyone accounted for with an initial read and knew where they were going. We have all seen athletes who operate as though they have eyes in the back of their head with pinpoint no look passes. Actually between wider peripheral vision and a developed ability to predict player flow and an ability to detect differences in player flow because someone is not where they should be or because they can seem to "feel" they are about to be sacked from the blindside or whatever, they know what is going on. It just is hard to tell where some successful athletes are looking by watching their head and it would not surprise me if this is the case with JP who has made a habit of running for his life at Tulane and has demonstrated a "feel" for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Aren't some of you guys overreacting to Fergy's comments? Fergy is not saying he should be run out of town (as some of you want to do to some of our other players). Do you guys really think that JP is perfect? I don't, and I am sure, neither does JP. JP is showing signs that he could be a good QB, but he (and pretty much most of the team) certainly have room for improvement). He is a young QB who is going to make mistakes (just like some of our other players for whom many of you are much less forgiving). If Fergy noticed something about locking into wrs, that does not mean that Fergy is saying that he is a horrible QB. Perhaps, it would be more wise to take this as constructive criticism -- as I am sure JP does when the coaches (or others who know what the hell they are talking about) offer him advice. 787464[/snapback] Where on earth do you or buftex make the Evel Kneival sized leap from refuting the fact that Losman locks on his receivers to those same posters implying they think that Losman is perfect? Where does that come from? Numerous posters in this thread and others have been defending JP's play in various aspects of it. No one to my knowledge has said he is great. No one came close to implying that he was already great. No one insisted he doesn't make mistakes. Everyone supporting him, as far as I can tell, are saying we can live with the growing pains because we see strides being made, we see talent. The detractors seem to be the only ones making outlandish statements, like "do you guys really think JP is perfect". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 That was pretty much my point, I feel more stupid than normal, for getting dragged into a really silly argument...thanks for being a voice of reason. I feel bad, it seems I have uwittingly put Joe Ferguson on the top 10 for "JP-enthusiasts", for what seems like a pretty harmless observation. 787467[/snapback] You're completely ignoring the progression of posts and all of the posts in between. There was no huge jump from Fergy's criticism, to saying Fergy was a bad QB or non-Bills fan. there was a gradual point-by-point progression. Go back and read the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Where on earth do you or buftex make the Evel Kneival sized leap from refuting the fact that Losman locks on his receivers to those same posters implying they think that Losman is perfect? Where does that come from? Numerous posters in this thread and others have been defending JP's play in various aspects of it. No one to my knowledge has said he is great. No one came close to implying that he was already great. No one insisted he doesn't make mistakes. Everyone supporting him, as far as I can tell, are saying we can live with the growing pains because we see strides being made, we see talent. The detractors seem to be the only ones making outlandish statements, like "do you guys really think JP is perfect". 787545[/snapback] As I recall, Evel Kneival did not make it that far when he tried to go over the snake river (or whichever river it was). It seems to me that there are many JP supporters that are a pretty touchy about anyone making any comment that can be even slightly interpreted as being critical. At the same time, some of these same posters want to run the league's leading rusher out of town. [it is odd that some of JP's "supporters" feel the need to go out of their way to attack Willis. I am glad that it does not appear that the two of them seem to react the same way]. As for me, I think that JP has shown much more potential than he did last year. Nevertheless, he has made some critical errors. Yet, I am not going to throw the "baby out with the bath water." He has shown potential. I like his attitude this year. He has thrown some pretty good balls. I would like to see some improvement in the touch throws, getting the play off, ball handling etc. Also, if Joe Ferguson makes a private comment about locking into receivers, it may be worth considering rather than trying to shoot the messenger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 As for me, I think that JP has shown much more potential than he did last year. Nevertheless, he has made some critical errors. Yet, I am not going to throw the "baby out with the bath water." He has shown potential. I like his attitude this year. He has thrown some pretty good balls. I would like to see some improvement in the touch throws, getting the play off, ball handling etc. Also, if Joe Ferguson makes a private comment about locking into receivers, it may be worth considering rather than trying to shoot the messenger. 787561[/snapback] I get that. So why do you think he is the worst quarterback in the league and will never amount to anything ever? See how dumb that is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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