Kelly the Dog Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 Well you're both kind of right. 787271[/snapback] Parrish adjusted his route because of the particular blitz and went to the spot vacated. Losman saw it, made the hot read, and threw to the spot immediately. That is changing the play because of what happened. It doesn't really become "a hot read" unless you're making an adjustment. Which is what Losman was referring to when he discussed the play.
Bill from NYC Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 Fergy still sucked! Put JP behind the Electric Company with OJ & those receivers, and you would've seen more than 1 measly playoff game against the Squeelers AND the Felons wouldn't have gone 20-0 against the Bills in the 70's. JP is no Marangi. 787213[/snapback] So JP is already better than Fergy or Drew? Then again, I shouldn't be surprised. Another post today likened him to Elway. Dontcha think we should wait and see?
Buftex Posted September 26, 2006 Author Posted September 26, 2006 Fergy did what he needed to in that offense, and that was to manage the game, hand off to OJ and not lose. 787276[/snapback] Wow, the revisionist history going on here...this is an accurate statement for Fergusons first season. After Simpson left, which is a significant portion of Fergusons Bills career, the offense revolved around him. The team had the two best seasons in history, post AFL championships, under Feruguson. He wasn't merely handing the ball off to Joe Cribbs those years either. The Bills had a potent passing game...Ferguson was among the leauge leaders in passing for a number of years. Anyway, so it is all becoming clearer...Ferguson was a head hanging loser, so that proves that JP Losman does not have a tendancy to lock onto receivers! Got it! You guys are awesome....the wealth of knowledge around here amazes me somedays...gotta go down to the newsstand and pick up Tiger-Beat...I hope they have a poster of JP in the middle, Bobby Sherman is yucky!
Rico Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 So JP is already better than Fergy or Drew? Then again, I shouldn't be surprised. Another post today likened him to Elway. Dontcha think we should wait and see? 787297[/snapback] I'm no JP fanboy, but I'd rather take my chances & start him in a big game than proven failures like Drew or Fergy.
Buftex Posted September 26, 2006 Author Posted September 26, 2006 I said greatest Bills fan. I always resented him when I read that story. There are times when I am a grudgekeeper, and usually when it comes to affecting the Bills. I read that a long time ago, although it was years after Kelly had been on the team. He said that he spoke with Fergy who told him the weather would affect his career. Which was total bullschit of course, because Fergy played for 17 seasons, including up until he was 41. 787266[/snapback] Do you begrudge Willis McGahee and Roscoe Parrish, because they don't like snow? Something to think about for later on...does the fact that Jim Kelly didn't want to play in Buffalo, and was very vocal about it, make you have a little hard spot on your heart for him? Don't forget, Fergy played in Tampa Bay, Detroit and Indianapolis...a sun belt team, and two dome teams...maybe that helped prolong his career?
Rico Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 Wow, the revisionist history going on here...this is an accurate statement for Fergusons first season. After Simpson left, which is a significant portion of Fergusons Bills career, the offense revolved around him. The team had the two best seasons in history, post AFL championships, under Feruguson. He wasn't merely handing the ball off to Joe Cribbs those years either. The Bills had a potent passing game...Ferguson was among the leauge leaders in passing for a number of years. 787301[/snapback] Peyton Gump is also among the league leaders in passing, & even holds a record or two. Like Fergy, I still wouldn't want him QB-ing my team in a big game.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 Wow, the revisionist history going on here...this is an accurate statement for Fergusons first season. After Simpson left, which is a significant portion of Fergusons Bills career, the offense revolved around him. The team had the two best seasons in history, post AFL championships, under Feruguson. He wasn't merely handing the ball off to Joe Cribbs those years either. The Bills had a potent passing game...Ferguson was among the leauge leaders in passing for a number of years. Anyway, so it is all becoming clearer...Ferguson was a head hanging loser, so that proves that JP Losman does not have a tendancy to lock onto receivers! Got it! You guys are awesome....the wealth of knowledge around here amazes me somedays...gotta go down to the newsstand and pick up Tiger-Beat...I hope they have a poster of JP in the middle, Bobby Sherman is yucky! 787301[/snapback] In his career, Ferguson threw more interceptions than touchdowns, with a mediocre %, and YPC. That's not good. I think he had a losing record overall. He played on as many good teams as bad teams. The early-mid 70s Bills were pretty good. The early Bills 80s teams were very good. He almost always had pretty good WRs. He was simply an average QB, was never great, was sometimes lousy. He had a very good arm and IMO a ten-cent head, and it wasn't only from hanging it. I even liked him as a player and followed the team extremely closely, and saw most every game he ever played for the Bills.
MadBuffaloDisease Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 This is actually a VERY easy issue to verify. If JP locks onto his primary receiver, he'll be intercepted and/or sacked quite frequently. If he was doing it against the Jets, the Vikings' veteran secondary will feast on him. But I'm guessing this isn't the case, because we would've seen more INTs by now - the one he did throw on Sunday was his first of the year, and it had nothing to do with locking on - it was simply a stupid decision to loft a duck into double coverage. Inexcusable, but for different reasons. That INT was because he got hit and couldn't step into his throw because of pressure in his face, and the wind doing the rest.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 Do you hate Willis McGahee, because he doesn't like snow? Something to think about for later on... 787306[/snapback] To my knowledge, Willis will play in snow. He likes Buffalo. He says he likes the coaching staff. He is good friends with Ralph. If they pay him there is a decent chance he will re-sign. I have no idea the comparison you're making. fergy played twelve seasons in the snow in Buffalo, and then was not shot as he went on to play 5 more on other teams. You should probably give it a rest if you're trying to make a point that snow actually shortened Joe Ferguson's career, which is what he implied to Kelly.
VABills Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 So we all agree, Fergy's a loser who never really was a QB and has no idea how to judge QB talent, because he's a head hanger.
Buftex Posted September 26, 2006 Author Posted September 26, 2006 To my knowledge, Willis will play in snow. He likes Buffalo. He says he likes the coaching staff. He is good friends with Ralph. If they pay him there is a decent chance he will re-sign. I have no idea the comparison you're making. fergy played twelve seasons in the snow in Buffalo, and then was not shot as he went on to play 5 more on other teams. You should probably give it a rest if you're trying to make a point that snow actually shortened Joe Ferguson's career, which is what he implied to Kelly. 787321[/snapback] I was just trying to illustrate the absurd depths that some of you are going to, to defend JP...when he really doesn't need to be defended...he is what he is, a good, and improving NFL QB, who still has some flaws...nothing Ferguson is purported to have said, is contrary to that. Sorry, I am not as good as some of you with the sarcasim thing...
Rico Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 So we all agree, Fergy's a loser who never really was a QB and has no idea how to judge QB talent, because he's a head hanger. 787327[/snapback] No, Fergy was a QB.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 I was just trying to illustrate the absurd depths that some of you are going to, to defend JP...when he really doesn't need to be defended...he is what he is, a good, and improving NFL QB, who still has some flaws...nothing Ferguson is purported to have said, is contrary to that. Sorry, I am not as good as some of you with the sarcasim thing... 787330[/snapback] I am just responding to specific things that you or other posters have said. I think Losman lost the game for us, and posted that in the only thread I started on the game. I never said he had a great game. I think he played decent, had some great throws, and made some mistakes that he cannot make if we expect to win. I blamed several things in the game on him. I even blamed him for things that he likely shouldn't have been blamed for, like the first fumble where he was hit from behind. Where is all this sticking up for him? Because I said Ferguson was not the greatest Bills fan and gave a concrete reason why I think so?
VABills Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 I even blamed him for things that he likely shouldn't have been blamed for, like the first fumble where he was hit from behind. 787346[/snapback] That's okay, Jauron said that JP was responsible for that one.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 That's okay, Jauron said that JP was responsible for that one. 787349[/snapback] He sort of did. He said JP was trying to make the play, and it was the right thing to do, he just didn't get the ball out fast enough. And he said all quarterbacks fumble when hit like that, and didn't remember one play that didn't when you rooster your arm. It was very tepid blame. I put more blame on him than that actually, and said he just can't do it. he can't lose two fumbles in a game (as well as throw an interception) regardless of how he was hit. he has to find a way to hang onto at least one of those.
Buftex Posted September 26, 2006 Author Posted September 26, 2006 I am just responding to specific things that you or other posters have said. I think Losman lost the game for us, and posted that in the only thread I started on the game. I never said he had a great game. I think he played decent, had some great throws, and made some mistakes that he cannot make if we expect to win. I blamed several things in the game on him. I even blamed him for things that he likely shouldn't have been blamed for, like the first fumble where he was hit from behind. Where is all this sticking up for him? Because I said Ferguson was not the greatest Bills fan and gave a concrete reason why I think so? 787346[/snapback] What does what Joe Ferguson may have told Jim Kelly, 23 years ago, have to do with a critique Ferguson made of JP Losmans' game? It seemed like you were just birnging up the "head-hanging" Ferguson referneces, and this really meaningless anecdote, to somehow discredit what Ferguson said. It really had nothing to do with anything...it is the kind of tactic we see in politics all of the time...shoot the messenger, divert blame somewhere else, and every other cliche you can think of. But that is what football posts usually disinigrate into...I know you are always "fair & balanced" (and I am not being sarcastic), and I really like your posts...and I like JP...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 What does what Joe Ferguson may have told Jim Kelly, 23 years ago, have to do with a critique Ferguson made of JP Losmans' game? It seemed like you were just birnging up the "head-hanging" Ferguson referneces, and this really meaningless anecdote, to somehow discredit what Ferguson said. It really had nothing to do with anything...it is the kind of tactic we see in politics all of the time...shoot the messenger, divert blame somewhere else, and every other cliche you can think of. But that is what football posts usually disinigrate into...I know you are always "fair & balanced" (and I am not being sarcastic), and I really like your posts...and I like JP... 787369[/snapback] For the same reason you can discount, or temper, or at the very least take with a grain of salt, things that, say, Fred Smerlas says about the Bills. Or even the way the things that homers like Steve Tasker will say about the Bills. It may or may not have an affect but it's an element to consider. The first several things I said about Ferguson's observation were specific rebuttals, what I considered to be relevant stats (with stated reasons why I believed so), and asking (as yet) unanswered questions. Most of the pro-Ferguson statements it seems to me have been much more along the lines of it's true "just cuz".
erynthered Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 Joe Ferguson hung his head when he was inducted into The Greater Buffalo Sports Hall of Fame.
Risin Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 That's okay, Jauron said that JP was responsible for that one. 787349[/snapback] He said the sack was his fault, not the fumble. Nice try though.
Buftex Posted September 26, 2006 Author Posted September 26, 2006 For the same reason you can discount, or temper, or at the very least take with a grain of salt, things that, say, Fred Smerlas says about the Bills. Or even the way the things that homers like Steve Tasker will say about the Bills. It may or may not have an affect but it's an element to consider. The first several things I said about Ferguson's observation were specific rebuttals, what I considered to be relevant stats (with stated reasons why I believed so), and asking (as yet) unanswered questions. Most of the pro-Ferguson statements it seems to me have been much more along the lines of it's true "just cuz". 787387[/snapback] Your rebuttal was that Losman threw the ball around to a bunch of different receivers, which, frankly, doesn't prove anything other than that he threw the ball around to a bunch of different receivers. The point that seems to being missed, over and over, as far as I know, Ferguson made the comments to Joe D, not necessarily for public consumption. Also, as far as I know, Ferguson wasn't being paid to make the comments, like Smerlas or Tasker. Unless I am oblivious to something else, other than something Ferguson may have said to Jim Kelly many years ago, Ferguson doesn't have any record of being anti-Bills, or of being resentful toward the franchise, or Losman for that matter.
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