What do you say to Jp after our loss to the Jets?

[Risin]

in other words, "i'll hafta to dig deeper up my ass to try and come up with random pointless, baseless, outright WRONG crap so i can continue my crusade against JP losman"

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[Crap Throwing Monkey]

In any case, those numbers you cite are pretty convincing, so I'll drop the YAC thing unless I come across other, even more convincing numbers.

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Wow. That's impressive. You have a harder time admitting you're wrong than I do.

[eball]

You know what I like about you?  You back up what you say with numbers, instead of pulling schitt out of your ass like I do.  Not that there's anyone in the latter category on these boards. 

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Truer words were never spoken.

[Lori]

Delving deeper into the numbers...

Unfortunately, GSIS doesn't compile leaguewide YAC stats. Here's a link you might find useful,though:

Washington Post: team YAC

 

Please note the Bills' #27 ranking in YAC compared to their #25 rank in total yards. Going by their stats, 26.1% of Buffalo's total receiving yards (150/575) have come after the catch.

 

Here's what the top ten teams in overall receiving yardage look like:

Eagles -- 325/960, 33.9%

Colts ---- 231/895, 25.8%

Giants -- 203/893, 22.7%

Packers - 485/866, 56.0%

Bears --- 219/830, 26.4%

49ers ---309/814, 37.96%

Jets -----254/808, 31.4%

Lions --- 427/801, 53.3%

Cardinals 239/788, 30.3%

Saints --287/714, 40.2%

 

...and the bottom 5: (Remember, some of them have only played two games; that will affect the total numbers, but not the percentage.)

Cowboys - 179/483, 37.1%

Falcons --- 103/369, 27.9%

Chiefs ---- 198/363, 54.5%

Chargers - 150/343, 43.7%

Raiders ---- 66/258, 25.6%

 

Judging by the data at hand, looks like Buffalo's actually on the low end, YAC-wise. (Whether 'tis due to pass placement, receivers, game situations, or some combination of all those factors, is subject to debate.) If anyone wants to go through and compile a leaguewide average, feel free. It's already Tuesday, and I've still got a preview to write...

[stuckincincy]

Delving deeper into the numbers...

Unfortunately, GSIS doesn't compile leaguewide YAC stats. Here's a link you might find useful,though:

 

787508[/snapback]

 

YAC numbers are tricky things. A team floods one side, defenders crab over, the pass hits to the other side for two yards past the LOS and the receiver not known for shifty moves gets 15 before the defense can get back over. It's 3rd an 18, the defense plays deep, a swing pass gets 15 yards, but mission accomplished - better punt situation. A qb good at threading the needle hits a wr in traffic for 15 but is immediatly tackled.

 

Lots of variables.

[Orton's Arm]

Wow.  That's impressive.  You have a harder time admitting you're wrong than I do. 

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Now that's saying something!

[Orton's Arm]

Judging by the data at hand, looks like Buffalo's actually on the low end, YAC-wise. (Whether 'tis due to pass placement, receivers, game situations, or some combination of all those factors, is subject to debate.) If anyone wants to go through and compile a leaguewide average, feel free. It's already Tuesday, and I've still got a preview to write...

787508[/snapback]

Good stuff. I'm surprised at how big YAC currently is--over 50% in some cases. From a defensive perspective, that reinforces the importance of making the tackle immediately after the catch. The absence of good safeties will really hurt your ability to do that, which would explain why the Bills were so eager to draft players like Whitner and Simpson. I still would have put a little more emphasis on the offensive line, but with those YAC numbers being what they are, it's a little easier to see why Marv did what he did.

[MDH]

Delving deeper into the numbers...

Unfortunately, GSIS doesn't compile leaguewide YAC stats. Here's a link you might find useful,though:

Washington Post: team YAC

 

Please note the Bills' #27 ranking in YAC compared to their #25 rank in total yards. Going by their stats, 26.1% of Buffalo's total receiving yards (150/575) have come after the catch.

 

Here's what the top ten teams in overall receiving yardage look like:

Eagles -- 325/960, 33.9%

Colts ---- 231/895, 25.8%

Giants -- 203/893, 22.7%

Packers - 485/866, 56.0%

Bears --- 219/830, 26.4%

49ers ---309/814, 37.96%

Jets -----254/808, 31.4%

Lions --- 427/801, 53.3%

Cardinals 239/788, 30.3%

Saints --287/714, 40.2%

 

...and the bottom 5: (Remember, some of them have only played two games; that will affect the total numbers, but not the percentage.)

Cowboys - 179/483, 37.1%

Falcons --- 103/369, 27.9%

Chiefs ---- 198/363, 54.5%

Chargers - 150/343, 43.7%

Raiders ---- 66/258, 25.6%

 

Judging by the data at hand, looks like Buffalo's actually on the low end, YAC-wise. (Whether 'tis due to pass placement, receivers, game situations, or some combination of all those factors, is subject to debate.) If anyone wants to go through and compile a leaguewide average, feel free. It's already Tuesday, and I've still got a preview to write...

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This is where Holcomb's Arm totally reverses field and takes the position that it is Losman's fault that the Bills rank so low in YAC.

[mead107]

I don't mean to pick on you in particular, but it seems that Losman's fans in general have a double standard.  On the one hand, when a member of the supporting cast doesn't do his job as well as expected (think of the McGahee ole block), they're quick to point out that the resulting fumble is McGahee's fault, not Losman's.  And you know what?  I agree with that.

 

But there were also many times when Losman was the recipient of a stellar effort from his supporting cast.  Losman would dump the ball off to players such as Parrish, and the WR would run for a huge gain after the catch.  The pass itself would be a very ordinary low risk NFL pass, but the blocking and WR's elusiveness would result in a special play.

 

A number of people are coming across as though they want to give Losman all the credit for those plays, even though his role was rather small.  In other words, Losman gets to take credit for the exceptional things his supporting cast does, but doesn't get the blame for the times when his supporting cast doesn't perform. 

 

Now, some might come back and say that other quarterbacks have WRs who run for YAC too.  These QBs don't necessarily throw the ball with Montana-like timing, yet they get credit for the YAC yards anyway.  But against the Jets, the Bills' WRs did an exceptional job of getting YAC; and that would tend to inflate Losman's yardage total both when compared with other QBs, as well as when it's compared with his performance against Miami in week 2.  On the Bills' first TD play, Parrish had 41 yards after the catch.  Later Parrish would have a 22 yard YAC after catching a screen from Losman.  Just on those two plays, there were 63 yards of YAC; as opposed to the 83 total passing yards Losman had in the whole game against Miami.

 

Are those 63 yards of YAC the result of better quarterbacking this week as opposed to last week?  No.  They're the result of the WRs doing more after the catch due to the playcalling, the blocking, and what the Jets' defense was doing or failing to do.

 

After last week's game, I wrote that Losman's performance wasn't as bad as his 83 passing yards would indicate.  This week, I'm writing that his performance isn't as good as his 300+ yards would indicate.  All those YAC yards this week is one reason why the total yardage figure significantly overstates the difference in performance between these last two weeks.

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so all sh-- aside , your still pissed that holcomb did not get the starting job ? what is it going to take to like jp ??? 20 passes for 350 yds with YAC at 10 ????

[MDH]

so all sh-- aside , your still pissed that holcomb did not get the starting job ? what is it going to take to like jp ??? 20 passes for 350 yds with YAC at 10 ????

787554[/snapback]

 

I'm thinking that YAC has to be in the negative before he'll give him some credit.

[Kelly the Dog]

I'm thinking that YAC has to be in the negative before he'll give him some credit.

787562[/snapback]

Plus, Losman is probably the worst in the league in YBS, Yards Before the Snap.

[BoondckCL]

What i would say to Losman...

 

"Atleast your more of a team player than Peyton Manning and you didn't throw your teamates under the bus! Your showing us great things so far, and we are eager to see what else you can do. Just go out there this week and do your thing, stay confident, and i am willing to bet you that we win this week."

[Orton's Arm]

so all sh-- aside , your still pissed that holcomb did not get the starting job ? what is it going to take to like jp ??? 20 passes for 350 yds with YAC at 10 ????

787554[/snapback]

I'd have preferred Nall to Holcomb. Nall is younger, has a stronger arm, and did about as well in NFL Europe as Kurt Warner did. I'm not saying Nall's the next Kurt Warner, but I'd like to see him get the chance to show what kind of QB he can be.

[Risin]

I'd have preferred Nall to Holcomb.  Nall is younger, has a stronger arm, and did about as well in NFL Europe as Kurt Warner did.  I'm not saying Nall's the next Kurt Warner, but it would be nice if that's what he turned into.

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I view your post, and now I see you're pimping Nall?!?!?

 

LMFAO, I should have learned my lesson.

 

[Orton's Arm]

I view your post,  and now I see you're pimping Nall?!?!?

 

LMFAO,  I should have learned my lesson.

 

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You object now, but if he got out on the field, maybe he'd render your objections Nall and Void!

 

Nah, I don't have a good enough feel for Nall to know what kind of quarterback he'd turn out to be. I sense there's the potential for him to do something really good, but you'd probably have to go through a number of Nalls before one of them turned out to be Kurt Warner.

[Risin]

You object now, but if he got out on the field, maybe he'd render your objections Nall and Void! 

 

Nah, I don't have a good enough feel for Nall to know what kind of quarterback he'd turn out to be.  I sense there's the potential for him to do something really good, but you'd probably have to go through a number of Nalls before one of them turned out to be Kurt Warner.

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I agree Nall has the potential to be great. (Any young QB on an NFL roster has that "potential")

 

I just want to know why you don't think JP has that same potential, he has certainly proven more than Craig, and is younger to boot.

 

I never had a problem with your attitude, you're a good poster, and avoid personal attacks. (wish I could say the same for myself) I just don't understand your hard anti-JP stance, and the fact you'll risk your reputation bagging on the guy. Would it really kill you to just compliment the guy, without it being of the backhanded variety?

 

You usually backup your feelings with longwinded, and statistic laced posts. (even though they are usually slanted to fit your argument)

 

I admire someone that would put that much time into a post, but it all gets thrown out the window, because you come off as a hater.

 

I don't know if JP is the answer, but I'm gonna back the kid 100 percent this year. If he isn't the answer, I'm fairly confident Marv and Dick will replace him. (Nall anyone?)

 

Can't you just admit he is much better then last season?

[Dibs]

You know what I like about you?  You back up what you say with numbers, instead of trying to outdo five year olds at name-calling.  Not that there's anyone in the latter category on these boards. 

 

In any case, those numbers you cite are pretty convincing, so I'll drop the YAC thing unless I come across other, even more convincing numbers.

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I don't understand why so many here give HA such a hard time.

He seems to be one of the only...how shall I word this....hmmm...contentious posters here who when the time is taken to show him where he is wrong, he tends to accept it....& with good humour.

 

Sure he has a one track mind on certain issues.....but so too do many others here who don't get abused in any way what-so-ever.

 

It seems to me that some have gotten into the habit of ridiculing HA because in some way it is OK now.

I don't recall seeing HA being disrespectful to others.....why are so many disrespectful to him?

[Orton's Arm]

I agree Nall has the potential to be great.  (Any young QB on an NFL roster has that "potential")

 

I just want to know why you don't think JP has that same potential,  he has certainly proven more than Craig,  and is younger to boot.

 

I never had a problem with your attitude,  you're a good poster,  and avoid personal attacks. (wish I could say the same for myself)  I just don't understand your hard anti-JP stance,  and the fact you'll risk your reputation bagging on the guy.  Would it really kill you to just compliment the guy,  without it being of the backhanded variety? 

 

You usually backup your feelings with longwinded,  and statistic laced posts.  (even though they are usually slanted to fit your argument) 

 

I admire someone that would put that much time into a post,  but it all gets thrown out the window,  because you come off as a hater.

 

I don't know if JP is the answer,  but I'm gonna back the kid 100 percent this year.  If he isn't the answer,  I'm fairly confident Marv and Dick will replace him.  (Nall anyone?) 

 

Can't you just admit he is much better then last season?

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I give you credit for a really good post. You presented your views with decency and humility, but also with thought and insight. I don't know whether you handle your differences with those around you (coworkers, kids, etc.) in this same spirit. But if you do, I'm sure it's paid off big.

 

I spent a lot more time writing about Losman than I'd originally planned. I was unhappy with the pick because I felt he was taken more for his athletic gifts than for his accuracy or mental attributes. I started writing about him, only to encounter resistance to my views. That resistance spurred me on to try to be more convincing and more eloquent, so I wrote more posts. Before I knew it, I was labeled an anti-Losman crusader.

 

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter much what labels people on this board attach or don't attach to me. Nor does it matter much to the world as a whole whether Losman becomes a Hall of Famer, a Ryan Leaf, or something in between. If I seem to care passionately about this issue, it's because I like the challenge of intelligent debate.

 

If there's one thing I've learned from this, it's that it's a mistake for me to get carried away with my emotions, and that it's a mistake to try too hard to prove my point. I'm not perfect in these areas even now, but hopefully I'm better than I was when I started.

[mead107]

I'd have preferred Nall to Holcomb.  Nall is younger, has a stronger arm, and did about as well in NFL Europe as Kurt Warner did.  I'm not saying Nall's the next Kurt Warner, but I'd like to see him get the chance to show what kind of QB he can be.

787694[/snapback]

KW looks like sh-- now .

[Booster4324]

Not into flame wars so here is my take on the Losman situation. To be honest when I first saw him (rookie year) I didnt get Rob Johnson flashbacks I got Todd Collins flashbacks. I mean some really horrible passes and even worse decision making.

 

Then there was the fiasco of last year where I basically didnt want to watch Bills football at all but still I put myself through the anguish. That was more of an overall team/coaching year though. Sure Losman sucked but the whole team sucked.

 

This year it SEEMS like the team is progressing and so is Losman. He is throwing some good passes and he seems to be getting better and better. My only concern as far as his progression this year is the number of sacks he has taken and the number of fumbles he has had. 8 sacks for 62 yards and 3 fumbles after 3 games. Not what I would want but he is still getting better or so it appears.

 

I do know this much...Holcomb and/or Nall (even added together) is no Doug Flutie and Losman is better than Rob (I fell on the football and hurt myself) Johnson much less Todd Collins.

 

So all in all to answer the OP I would pull Losman aside and say "Good game. Now lets watch some film and work on a few things."

 

Go Bills