What do you say to Jp after our loss to the Jets?

[Dibs]

I'll give you that Losman has occassional good moments.  No question there.  The difference between the Losman-optimists and Losman-pessimists is that the former see those moments as a harbinger of what his play will always be like, while the pessimists think he'll play just well enough to be a coach killer.

784842[/snapback]

Whereas the Losman-realist....

sees that the player in question has improved incrementally & sees no evidence to support the cessation of the player improving let alone the long term regression of said player.

Why do some people seem to want some of our players to be crap?

[Lori]

That 77 yard drive that impressed you took place against a prevent defense.  It's easy to look good when that's what you're up against. 

 

Yeah, the overall yardage total seems impressive.  But 70 of those yards were against a prevent defense.  Many more were the result of a WR such as Parrish turning a short pass into a long gain.  Now you could say that sometimes a QB like Montana would help his receivers with YAC by hitting them in perfect stride.  I really didn't see Losman doing that at all.  The high YAC was because of the playcalling, blocking, and speed of the WRs, and not because Losman threw the ball with a Montana-like sense of timing.  After taking all these things into account, Losman's yardage total begins to look a lot more similar to the one he had last week against Miami.

786087[/snapback]

You may want to re-examine your numbers. Looking at the play-by-play on NFL GSIS, I added up a grand total of 124 yards-after-catch. 328-124=204. 204 does NOT look similar to 83.

 

Just sayin'.

[Swift Sylvan]

Hey JP good job. You're an honest guy who wants and feels obligated to Buffalo. You're a great guy, and luckilly your game is improving too. Those fumbles you need to work on those, but I hope you're proud of your first 300 yard game.

 

that's what I'd say to him.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

You may want to re-examine your numbers. Looking at the play-by-play on NFL GSIS, I added up a grand total of 124 yards-after-catch. 328-124=204. 204 does NOT look similar to 83.

 

Just sayin'.

786919[/snapback]

 

But you forgot to subtract yardage against the prevent defense. And you should subtract the RAC yards from the 83 yards, too...

[Alaska Darin]

You may want to re-examine your numbers. Looking at the play-by-play on NFL GSIS, I added up a grand total of 124 yards-after-catch. 328-124=204. 204 does NOT look similar to 83.

 

Just sayin'.

786919[/snapback]

Congrats on winning the battle with an internet retard. Not sure that's ever been done before.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Congrats on winning the battle with an internet retard.  Not sure that's ever been done before.

786957[/snapback]

 

I don't know, VA seems to get smacked around pretty well almost daily.

[Orton's Arm]

You may want to re-examine your numbers. Looking at the play-by-play on NFL GSIS, I added up a grand total of 124 yards-after-catch. 328-124=204. 204 does NOT look similar to 83.

 

Just sayin'.

786919[/snapback]

Thanks for adding up all those YAC numbers. To clarify my earlier post, I do feel there's a yardage difference between what Losman did against the Jets and what he did against the Dolphins. I wasn't trying to deny that. But it seems that a lot of Losman's supporters just saw the 328 passing yards, and said, "Ooooh wow. 328 yards. What a great performance from JP."

 

But as you've pointed out, 124 of those yards came after the catch. That's a lot more YAC than a QB in an average offense can expect from his WRs on an average Sunday. So the 328 yard figure overstates what Losman achieved, just as his 83 yard figure against Miami understates what he accomplished. The two performances aren't the same, but they are more similar than the raw yardage figures make them appear.

[Orton's Arm]

Congrats on winning the battle with an internet retard.  Not sure that's ever been done before.

786957[/snapback]

Is this your way of saying you've never lost an argument?

[Kelly the Dog]

Thanks for adding up all those YAC numbers.  Maybe my earlier post wasn't clear.  Obviously, there's a yardage difference between what Losman did against the Jets and what he did against the Dolphins.  I wasn't trying to deny that.  But it seems that a lot of Losman's supporters just saw the 328 passing yards, and said, "Ooooh wow.  328 yards.  What a great performance from JP."

 

But as you've pointed out, 124 of those yards came after the catch.  That's a lot more YAC than a QB in an average offense can expect from his WRs on an average Sunday.  So the 328 yard figure overstates what Losman achieved, just as his 83 yard figure against Miami understates what he accomplished.

787249[/snapback]

124 is not a lot of YAC whatsover in your average 325 yard passing day from any quarterback. A lot of Losman's 17-20 yard passes were 17-20 yard throws. This is another in an endless series of your hole-digging stances.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

That's a lot more YAC than a QB in an average offense can expect from his WRs on an average Sunday.

787249[/snapback]

 

Prove it.

[Orton's Arm]

124 is not a lot of YAC whatsover in your average 325 yard passing day from any quarterback. A lot of Losman's 17-20 yard passes were 17-20 yard throws. This is another in an endless series of your hole-digging stances.

787252[/snapback]

From the sound of your post, you're "fair and balanced" in the same sense that Al Franken took a "fair and balanced" look at the right. You act as though getting 38% of one's passing yards through YAC is a perfectly normal thing, and that anyone who feels differently must have had his head removed at birth.

 

If you feel the need to take shots at me, fine. It's been done before. But you might want to pick something more reasonable about which to attack me. For example, the WR who did the most to generate that those 124 yards after the catch was Roscoe Parrish. When he was drafted, I was aghast that TD had once again used a high draft pick on an offensive skill player instead of an offensive lineman. The fact that Parrish did a world of good after the catch on Sunday would be a perfect excuse to attack me for having criticized the Parrish pick. But to say that I'm digging myself a hole because I think that over 100 yards after the catch is higher than normal? Take a deep breath, remove your hands from the keyboard, and don't come back until you're in your right mind.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

From the sound of your post, you're "fair and balanced" in the same sense that Al Franken took a "fair and balanced" look at the right.    You act as though getting 38% of one's passing yards through YAC is a perfectly normal thing, and that anyone who feels differently must have had his head removed at birth. 

 

If you feel the need to take shots at me, fine.  It's been done before.  But you might want to pick something more reasonable about which to attack me.  For example, the WR who did the most to generate that those 124 yards after the catch was Roscoe Parrish.  When he was drafted, I was aghast that TD had once again used a high draft pick on an offensive skill player instead of an offensive lineman.  The fact that Parrish did a world of good after the catch on Sunday would be a perfect excuse to attack me for having criticized the Parrish pick.  But to say that I'm digging myself a hole because I think that over 100 yards after the catch is higher than normal?  Take a deep breath, remove your hands from the keyboard, and don't come back until you're in your right mind.

787295[/snapback]

 

Again. What's normal? Prove 38% YAC isn't.

[5 Wide]

Lets take a quick look around the league for a moment:

 

Steve Smith averages for his career: 6.8 YAC/Rec

 

Terrel Owens averages for his career 5.7 YAC/Rec

 

Jeremy Shockey averages for his career 4.9 YAC/Rec

 

 

 

So if Steve Smith has 7 catches on the day, he has 48 yards of YAC

 

If TO has 7 Catches on the day, he has 40 Yards of YAC

 

If Shockey has 7 Catches on the day, he has 35 Yards of YAC

 

That equals 123 yards of Yac for 21 completions

 

It kind of seems like maybeYAC has a large % of total yards across the league, and not just on a "fluke, feel good day" by Losman

 

Point is, Receivers run after the catch, its what they do. If you want to talk about screens and check downs then the YAC skyrockets even more.

[Orton's Arm]

Lets take a quick look around the league for a moment:

 

Steve Smith averages for his career: 6.8 YAC/Rec

 

Terrel Owens averages for his career 5.7 YAC/Rec

 

Jeremy Shockey averages for his career 4.9 YAC/Rec

So if Steve Smith has 7 catches on the day, he has 48 yards of YAC

 

If TO has 7 Catches on the day, he has 40 Yards of YAC

 

If Shockey has 7 Catches on the day, he has 35 Yards of YAC

 

That equals 123 yards of Yac for 21 completions

 

It kind of seems like maybeYAC has a large % of total yards across the league, and not just on a "fluke, feel good day" by Losman

 

Point is, Receivers run after the catch, its what they do.  If you want to talk about screens and check downs then the YAC skyrockets even more.

787318[/snapback]

I appreciate the effort you've made to help move the discussion in a quantitave direction. At the same time, the players you've mentioned are among the league's very best. Probably a Steve Smith or Terrell Owens is a lot more dangerous after the catch than is your average WR.

 

Besides that, even if you're a QB with the, um, interesting experience of having Terrell Owens on your team, not all your passes will be going to him. Probably the other players catching those passes won't be as good at the YAC thing as him. In any case, 7 catches on the day is a lot--it'd put him on pace for 105 catches for the season. Owens averages 72 catches per season, and has never had more than 100 catches in a year.

 

Owens averages 4.5 receptions per game. 4.5 receptions * 5.7 yards after the catch for each catch = 25 YAC. The other players will contribute to the YAC total also, but probably not nearly as much on a per-catch basis as Owens. So the overall YAC total could just as easily be in the 40 - 60 range as in the 100 - 120 range.

[MRW]

So the overall YAC total could just as easily be in the 40 - 60 range as in the 100 - 120 range.

787331[/snapback]

Instead of theorizing about it, why not get some numbers that back up your contention that 120 YAC is unusually high for a 300+ yard passing day?

[Lori]

Thanks for adding up all those YAC numbers.  To clarify my earlier post, I do feel there's a yardage difference between what Losman did against the Jets and what he did against the Dolphins.  I wasn't trying to deny that.  But it seems that a lot of Losman's supporters just saw the 328 passing yards, and said, "Ooooh wow.  328 yards.  What a great performance from JP."

 

But as you've pointed out, 124 of those yards came after the catch.  That's a lot more YAC than a QB in an average offense can expect from his WRs on an average Sunday.  So the 328 yard figure overstates what Losman achieved, just as his 83 yard figure against Miami understates what he accomplished.  The two performances aren't the same, but they are more similar than the raw yardage figures make them appear.

787249[/snapback]

Really? Pennington's two passing TDs versus the Pats added up to 93 yards-after-catch, and 173 of his 306 total yards in that game came courtesy of his receivers.

 

This week's other 300-yard passers with yac numbers (from GSIS):

Kitna 342 - yac: 178

Brady 320 - yac: 177

Bulger 309 - yac: 147

 

You were saying?

[5 Wide]

Really? Pennington's two passing TDs versus the Pats added up to 93 yards-after-catch, and 173 of his 306 total yards in that game came courtesy of his receivers.

 

This week's other 300-yard passers with yac numbers (from GSIS):

Kitna 342 - yac: 178

Brady 320 - yac: 177

Bulger 309 - yac: 147

 

You were saying?

787386[/snapback]

 

 

Checkmate

[Orton's Arm]

Really? Pennington's two passing TDs versus the Pats added up to 93 yards-after-catch, and 173 of his 306 total yards in that game came courtesy of his receivers.

 

This week's other 300-yard passers with yac numbers (from GSIS):

Kitna 342 - yac: 178

Brady 320 - yac: 177

Bulger 309 - yac: 147

 

You were saying?

787386[/snapback]

You know what I like about you? You back up what you say with numbers, instead of trying to outdo five year olds at name-calling. Not that there's anyone in the latter category on these boards.

 

In any case, those numbers you cite are pretty convincing, so I'll drop the YAC thing unless I come across other, even more convincing numbers.

[Risin]

Really? Pennington's two passing TDs versus the Pats added up to 93 yards-after-catch, and 173 of his 306 total yards in that game came courtesy of his receivers.

 

This week's other 300-yard passers with yac numbers (from GSIS):

Kitna 342 - yac: 178

Brady 320 - yac: 177

Bulger 309 - yac: 147

 

You were saying?

787386[/snapback]

 

 

Wow.

 

Owned again.

 

I have him on ignore, but I bet the dude still comes up with a retarded response.

 

Another amazing factual post Lori. You got skillz.

[Ramius]

so I'll drop the YAC thing unless I come across other, even more convincing numbers.

787396[/snapback]

 

in other words, "i'll hafta to dig deeper up my ass to try and come up with random pointless, baseless, outright WRONG crap so i can continue my crusade against JP losman"