Troy Vincent...

[OCinBuffalo]

After reading all the posts, BB.com videos, and other assorted details on this guy from training camp on; I've drawn the following conclusions:

 

1. TV couldn't care less about playing this year. He seems to be content with his career, and, along with his role in the NFLPA, appears to be consistently presenting an image as though he has an alterior motive - I can't place it. Maybe he wants to coach, be a gm, something. The videos on BB.com are very consistent. It's clear that every time he has had on oppportunity to present the image of having players, coaches, fans, etc. look to him for answers, he is right there to give the people what they want. To be clear - I'm not doubting his sincerity, I am merely pointing out his consistency.

 

2. In this world of me-first secondary and wide recievers TV is a standout guy in terms of his willingness to "assist" the team. More specifically than #1, I really got a kick out of TV practicing with Nate Clements in the pre season videos, and even more so when Nate was right there lapping up everything TV said, on camera. I got a funny feeling that this seems a little too "right". Again, not doubting his commitment but this seems like a handy opportunity to gain PR points.

 

3. The way that Marv handled this, giving TV his salary for the year, while at the same time giving TV a chance to get in front of the media and say things like: "The NFL has been good to me and I have a responsibility to give back" and "It's not a time for me to be selfish" seem a little too convienent for me. I mean, if you were going to build a resume for an "after playing" career in the NFL this is exactly on target. Plus - you get all your money for the year, and you get to hang around and build the resume even more. I bet every time KO or Donte do something good, we are gonna hear Troy Vincent's name.

 

Ok, I don't have anything direct to point to in terms of a cause and effect, yet. However, the kicker for me was when TV said on video that "I will be hanging around to make sure the #20 and #30 are prepared"(not exact but close enough). It just seems that TV is a very smart dude who has seen the end of his career coming and has done everything exactly right to tansition into something else. Seems a lot like the same reason Tiki Barber does the early morning show on Fox News.

 

I hope that this all turns into a coaching job for Troy as Defensive Quality control or something. We should be so lucky. In fact that would be the schitt. But, I'm thinkin he has his sights set a little higher. Once more, I am not saying that the guy is playin us, simply that he is using his current position effectively to gain a new position, or, there is just a hell of a lot of coincidence here.

 

Insightful or crap? You decide

[BillnutinHouston]

I don't really care as long as TV stays off the field.

[Pyrite Gal]

Who knows which dimestore psychology theory is correct reafrding TV's motivations. However, the objective events seem to point to him taking actions in preparation for age diminishing a player (which happens to 'em all) in his case.

 

1. He joined the Bills with the publicly stated idea that he was gonna switch to safety in a year or two as covering #1 WRs required more speed than he had. Many players simply allow themselves to slide from #1 to #2 and then to nickel as they get older, TV looked to a position switch to do this which is somewhat rare among players.

 

2. He had led the organizing of NFL players (such as TKO) attending an Ivy league (Wharton at U Penn I believe) to get credits toward their MBAs and learn high-level business stuff.

 

3. His peers elected him Pres of the NFLPA and under his and Upshaw's leadership they negotiated a deal which not only solidified thair role as partners with team owners rather than being merely workers, but arguably since the get well into a majority of the total revenues, the NFLPA is the majority partner in this arrangement.

 

If he could not play the game with the authority which saw him lead the team last year in turnovers received and also suit it up for 16 of 16 games, it was definitely time for him to sit. I'm just happy that Simpson looks like the real deal and is pulling off the great and unplanned for trick of essentially starting immediately as a second day pick.

 

The fact we are seeing significant time and mostly game starts already coming from: the late-signing Whitner, Simpson, Ellison, Williams and McCargo just speaks incredibly highly of Jauron as a teacher, Jauron/Fewell for designing a working D scheme simple enough for players to gain command of it quickly and Marv/Modrak for leading the charge to a great draft at this early point.

 

Its still way to early to declare this draft a success, but the media was perfectly willing to declare that the game had at least passed Marv by or even that he showed signs of Alzheimers the day after the draft. its too early to give final judgment on the players but not too early to declare a few media idiots already owe Marv and the Bills a big apology.

[Kelly the Dog]

Seems to me that Vincent has been doing and saying this kind of stuff his entire career. The only thing remotely deceptive or disingenuous to me is that he is very calculated in what he says. He thinks before he speaks. Wow, what a concept.

 

But that should probably just be considered smart and diplomatic rather than disingenuous. As head of the player's union, he wants to portray players as exemplary citizens, so he acts like that himself. He almost always says and does the right thing.

 

Plus he has had a successful career, is in a serious position to succeed in whatever he does, and reportedly makes (perhaps) hundreds of millions, so he is not a guy trying to hang onto a career and milk as much cash as he can before he is forced out.

 

There are a lot of reasons why Vincent does and says what he does, but frankly, I have yet to hear a bad word about him from anyone anywhere. Excluding some talk about him advising players in the locker room that management may not be so happy about. I don't know if that is even wrong, it's his job.

[Gordio]

Vincent has been stealing money from the bills for the last 3 years. The guy should of retired after Philly cut him loose. I guess if you could find a team naive enough to pay your salary, more power to you. I always got the sense with Vincent that althoug a standup guy, he was always condesending. I for one am glad he will never see the field again in a bills uniform. The only reason the bills kept Vincent over Baker in the first place is to not have an early season mutiny among the veterans in the lockerroom.

[OCinBuffalo]

Pyrite - it seems your favorite term to respond to anything beyond basic, right in front of your face stuff is "dimestore psychology" - what happened? Did some shrink piss you off? Let's be clear - I don't care - I'm just wondering. I am merely pointing out that the guy is polished and seems unlike most of the "I'm great. Throw me the ball and pay me - and oh yeah, buy my new rap album" guys that are really beginnig to bore us all. I see a pattern of behavior that lends itself to something, I believe, unexpected but huge for TV - that's it.

 

Kelly - hey I'm not saying disingenuious and TV in the same sentence. If anything, he's putting things out that are so painfully obvious that there is no way they could be fake. I guess I am admiring a guy that for once, instead of setting the lowest possible expectations(see rap album) for himself, appears to be doing just the opposite. I'm not saying he will run for president - but is an Ozzie Newsome-like job out of the question?

 

I hope he sticks around throughout the season and helps out - that would be huge.

[Pirate Angel]

I think injured reserve on a minor injury was a way to sort of put his career as a player (atleast with the Bills) to rest in a less degrading way then having a player with troys pedigree being benched in place of a rookie who was drafted in the 3rd round.

[Pyrite Gal]

Pyrite - it seems your favorite term to respond to anything beyond basic, right in front of your face stuff is "dimestore psychology" - what happened? Did some shrink piss you off? Let's be clear - I don't care - I'm just wondering. I am merely pointing out that the guy is polished and seems unlike most of the "I'm great. Throw me the ball and pay me - and oh yeah, buy my new rap album" guys that are really beginnig to bore us all. I see a pattern of behavior that lends itself to something, I believe, unexpected but huge for TV - that's it.

 

Kelly - hey I'm not saying disingenuious and TV in the same sentence. If anything, he's putting things out that are so painfully obvious that there is no way they could be fake. I guess I am admiring a guy that for once, instead of setting the lowest possible expectations(see rap album) for himself, appears to be doing just the opposite. I'm not saying he will run for president - but is an Ozzie Newsome-like job out of the question?

 

I hope he sticks around throughout the season and helps out - that would be huge.

782856[/snapback]

 

While the two words are not in the same sentence, I think K F&B and I both interpreted your post in the same manner which was finding fault with manner TV operated. I was mistaken in this take, apologize for misinterpreting and am glad you did not mean it that way.

 

I do not feel any disdain for psychoanalysts, just simply a disdain for what I call the dimestore version of it which is folks ASSuming some simplistic motivation for a player or individual's actions based on their simplistic read of the person's motivations.

 

As an example off the TV subject, you would think some folks must be best friends with McGahee or have slept with him the way they rant about his motivations, plans or lack thereof. He probably is a jerk, but we really do not know for sure for the most part and the main take from what he has said is that folks should be careful not to have sex with him (kest you end up being a baby momma).

 

Basically, what we really do know about him is his performance on the field and little more than that. It amazes me how folks seem to think they draw stone cold certain conclusions about what he is gonna do years hence based on their psychological profiling.

 

I'm happy you do not think this way.

[CircleTheWagons]

In my (simplistic) view, Vincent sounds like a businessman who used his football talents to generate revenue and establish contacts. Good for him and I wish more of the players had some of his business acumen.

 

I have had a hard time getting excited about TV - he seems like the consultant a company hires and pays too much money to work beside the full-time staff. You know the consultant is in it for the short-term and more focussed on himself than the project.

 

On a football team, I don't want "consultants," no matter how experienced they are. TD was good at hiring consultants; it appears with Marv's first draft that he's more interested in developing his full-timers from within. Bills are coming back, I can feel it...

[Dan]

Also, could not putting him on IR and paying him the way we are be a clever way to garner loyalty from TV; hence he readily stays and helps tutor the young players. Furthermore, by treating someone as well respected as TV like this, it seems the Bills are telling other players/free agents that Buffalo is a great team and organization to be around. Again, a clear way to garner loyalty from existing players and entice would be free agents in the future.

 

I, for one, have no problem with paying TV a few million this year. Heck, we have plenty of salary money to spare. Plus if it gets us good will from the players association, the league, and potential free agents - all while providing additional tutiledge to our rookies; then its a win-win situation for all involved. Certainly better than just cutting him out right and saving a few million.

 

It seems logical to me that if you want classy, high character players; then the GM should treat existing players with class and high character. That's exactly what they've done with TV and I see nothing but positives to the whole situation.

[MarkyMannn]

I don't really care as long as TV stays off the field.

782604[/snapback]

 

Exactly, and have a nice life too TV

[gobillsinytown]

I agree with this......the team could have just cut him and only been responsible for paying him a fraction of what they're paying now. So in that respect I think they did the right thing.

I think the real question is whether or not putting his field experience on the sideline is going to have any long term negative effects on the secondary. While it's true the rookies seem to be playing well so far, they're going to be tested again many times this year once other teams have a decent amount of game film

to look at. That's going to be the real test: How well do they adjust once other teams start reading their tendencies? While it's true TV is probably beyond his prime physically, he certainly brought a wealth of "in-game" coaching to help the secondary change up it's "looks".

 

 

Also, could not putting him on IR and paying him the way we are be a clever way to garner loyalty from TV; hence he readily stays and helps tutor the young players.  Furthermore, by treating someone as well respected as TV like this, it seems the Bills are telling other players/free agents that Buffalo is a great team and organization to be around.  Again, a clear way to garner loyalty from existing players and entice would be free agents in the future.

 

I, for one, have no problem with paying TV a few million this year.  Heck, we have plenty of salary money to spare.  Plus if it gets us good will from the players association, the league, and potential free agents - all while providing additional tutiledge to our rookies; then its a win-win situation for all involved.  Certainly better than just cutting him out right and saving a few million.

 

It seems logical to me that if you want classy, high character players; then the GM should treat existing players with class and high character.  That's exactly what they've done with TV and I see nothing but positives to the whole situation.

782933[/snapback]

[Ennjay]

Here's something I find telling, and consistent with what most people are posting about TV:

 

When Marv took over he did not back up the truck and clean house like TD did. I know the situation was different -- TD's first team was in cap hell and Marv's wasn't -- but still TD was the kind of guy who wanted "his" players, not the other guy's. I really don't think Mark thinks that way. He just wants guys who he thinks are the right guys to play the game. I have a lot of faith in Marv's judgment of people going back to his coaching years.

 

So: Milloy -- gone. Adams -- gone. Big Mike -- gone. Because Marv (and Jauron) didn't want them.

 

And whatever some fans thought: Reed -- stays. Wire -- stays. Because Marv and Jauron (and Bobby April) think they have something to give the team.

 

And the telling part: Marv kept TV.

[Matt in KC]

And the telling part:  Marv kept TV.

783012[/snapback]

And then someone put him on mini ("we kinda don't want you") IR....

 

I think TV has been a model player and teammate, and haven't seen anthing at all in his interviews or actions that I can be critical of with a clear conscience. But, at the same time, it has seemed like he's been playing with less fire in his belly the last couple years. I think this is a good move for everyone if Bowen is really returning before TV could be ready to play again.

[Dan]

I completely agree. I think Marv and Co. have done an excellent job (or so it seems a few weeks into the season) at keeping players/personnel that still have something to offer the organization. And they've retained and released people in decent and "high character" way. I've thoguht all along that the biggest change needed at OBD was in upper management and consequently the atmosphere within the organization. The hiring of Marv (and his subsequent staff), the attitude he brings, and the way that he deals with staff will do far more to change the losing atmosphere surrounding the Bills than any player signing or firing.

[Sen. John Blutarsky]

Marv has caught a lot of crap for having to pay TV's salary because of the timing of his IR placement. I'm not sure if I buy that. We just did the president of the union a major solid, don't think that stuff doesn't get passed around among the players and agents when they are looking for places to do deals. Marv COULD have dumped TV earlier and saved some cash, but for his 2 million + he bought himself a bunch of goodwill with a player (washed up or not) who has a lot of pull. TV is either setting himself up to coach or be an agent, my guess is agent and either way the Bills helped him out big time.

[Rockinon]

After reading all the posts, BB.com videos, and other assorted details on this guy from training camp on; I've drawn the following conclusions:

 

1. TV couldn't care less about playing this year. He seems to be content with his career, and, along with his role in the NFLPA, appears to be consistently presenting an image as though he has an alterior motive - I can't place it. Maybe he wants to coach, be a gm, something. The videos on BB.com are very consistent. It's clear that every time he has had on oppportunity to present the image of having players, coaches, fans, etc. look to him for answers, he is right there to give the people what they want. To be clear - I'm not doubting his sincerity, I am merely pointing out his consistency.

 

2. In this world of me-first secondary and wide recievers TV is a standout guy in terms of his willingness to "assist" the team. More specifically than #1, I really got a kick out of TV practicing with Nate Clements in the pre season videos, and even more so when Nate was right there lapping up everything TV said, on camera. I got a funny feeling that this seems a little too "right". Again, not doubting his commitment but this seems like a handy opportunity to gain PR points.

 

3. The way that Marv handled this, giving TV his salary for the year, while at the same time giving TV a chance to get in front of the media and say things like: "The NFL has been good to me and I have a responsibility to give back" and "It's not a time for me to be selfish" seem a little too convienent for me. I mean, if you were going to build a resume for an "after playing" career in the NFL this is exactly on target. Plus - you get all your money for the year, and you get to hang around and build the resume even more. I bet every time KO or Donte do something good, we are gonna hear Troy Vincent's name.

 

Ok, I don't have anything direct to point to in terms of a cause and effect, yet. However, the kicker for me was when TV said on video that "I will be hanging around to make sure the #20 and #30 are prepared"(not exact but close enough). It just seems that TV is a very smart dude who has seen the end of his career coming and has done everything exactly right to tansition into something else. Seems a lot like the same reason Tiki Barber does the early morning show on Fox News.

 

I hope that this all turns into a coaching job for Troy as Defensive Quality control or something. We should be so lucky. In fact that would be the schitt. But, I'm thinkin he has his sights set a little higher. Once more, I am not saying that the guy is playin us, simply that he is using his current position effectively to gain a new position, or, there is just a hell of a lot of coincidence here.

 

Insightful or crap? You decide

782585[/snapback]

 

This sounds a little to cynical to me. I have listened to TV on many occasions through the years and have always gotten the impression that he is a stand up guy. I've never thought that he might be trying to portray himself as anything other than.......well, himself. Just my 2 cents.

[5 Wide]

Vincent plays with the Cajones of Holcomb and the desire of Bledsoe. He was a good player for a lot of years, but he never seemed to show that tremendous fire for the game during his Bill tenure. He has amassed a fortune in leveraging his NFL earnings into successful business ventures. IMO he has been playing just enough to get it done and nothing more. It's not a knock that "he's well spoken and calculated, he must not like football" rather his actions on the field and his lack of desire to "stick his head in there" show he's playing for life after football.

[RalphOP83]

I work @ a bar in close proximity to the stadium. We had a few visitors today, including troy vincent and gene upshaw. Dont know what they were there for, but just thought i'd put it out there.

[LynchMob23]

And don't forget Ralph is a keen supporter of TV. So because of that, he was probably more than happy to have him paid for the full season, tutor the pups and then glide into an office role with the Bills at the end of this season. I'm sure by the time he gets the okay to get cut he'll either retire or stay on staff in some capacity.