I dont care about his numbers.....my hat goes

[Like A Mofo]

Hey Holcombs_Arm...what were you say about Big Ben in 2004 (his rookie year, almost the same amount of time JP has had as a starter:

 

Steelers 16, Skins 7

 

B.Roethlisberger 9-20-0-131

 

Steelers 17, Jets 6

 

B.Roethlisberger 9-19-2-144

 

Steelers 19, Bengals 14

 

PIT: B.Roethlisberger 15-21-0-138

 

 

Steelers 24, Browns 10

 

PIT: B.Roethlisberger 10-16-1-134

 

 

Are these great performances? Remember ALL the praise Big Ben got??? Why is JP getting criticized for similar performances????

 

Why?

[Catholic Guilt]

I'm not saying that JP is even close to being there yet, but you have to take his game in context and in that case he played extremely well. (For what he was asked to do)

779447[/snapback]

 

OMG - I cannot understand why my fellow Bills fans dislike JP Losman. I think if he decended from heaven at the Ralph, posters would be calling him a fake and ask for Kelly Homcomb to turn water into wine. Quarterbacks rarely come out of college and light up the NFL. Look at Big Ben in Pittsburgh. The coaching staff is smart enough to let him manage the game. He doesn't set passing records in the Burgh, but he does win games.

 

Baby steps people...

[Catholic Guilt]

Clements22 - I really posted that before I read your message.

 

Great minds think alike.

[BidsJr]

OMG - I cannot understand why my fellow Bills fans dislike JP Losman. I think if he decended from heaven at the Ralph, posters would be calling him a fake and ask for Kelly Homcomb to turn water into wine. Quarterbacks rarely come out of college and light up the NFL. Look at Big Ben in Pittsburgh. The coaching staff is smart enough to let him manage the game. He doesn't set passing records in the Burgh, but he does win games.

 

Baby steps people...

779459[/snapback]

 

Umm I hope you are not talking about me.

 

If so, some remedial reading comprehension classes are in order.

[Catholic Guilt]

Umm I hope you are not talking about me.

 

If so, some remedial reading comprehension classes are in order.

779464[/snapback]

 

 

Actually I agree with your views on the kid.

[JinWPB]

If Losman has a Roethlisberger-like day,

779313[/snapback]

 

Maybe you'd like to rethink that after Monday night.

 

Anyway think about this; Even lord Jim ( who came to us from the "U" by way of 3 years pro experience in Houston's run/shoot usfl) had bad days and pass plays where you would think wtf was that all about and that with an all pro offense around him.

Blah, blah, blah,GIVE JPL a break. After what Muldorky did to him ,It's like a rookie year all over again.

[BidsJr]

Actually I agree with your views on the kid.

779470[/snapback]

 

Wasn't sure by how your post was worded, but I figured as much.

[Catholic Guilt]

Wasn't sure by how your post was worded, but I figured as much. 

779473[/snapback]

 

I'll work on my English skills.

[John from Riverside]

This is what I am not understanding...perhaps someone can explain this to me....

 

All I fricken heard from a certain group on this board (and others...as a matter of fact these folks all sound very very similar even though they have different screen names)

 

I myself am John from Hemet.....no matter what board I go to....and I ask this questions?

 

- When you complain about a young QB not being able to play smart, manage a game, take what a defense gives you, and complete short passes and claim that all a certain young QB knows how to do is throw bombs downfield.....then he turns around and does exactly what you were complaining about....WHY ARE YOU STILL COMPLAINING.

 

- A further head scratcher for me.....why in the world do you complain when you see your investment actually playing and being productive? Would you much rather give alway though draft picks and watch your investment sitting on the bench? For what....for a backup QB with no upside who couldn't even should he could get it done in preseason....W.....T....F......

[Catholic Guilt]

This is what I am not understanding...perhaps someone can explain this to me....

 

All I fricken heard from a certain group on this board (and others...as a matter of fact these folks all sound very very similar even though they have different screen names)

 

I myself am John from Hemet.....no matter what board I go to....and I ask this questions?

 

- When you complain about a young QB not being able to play smart, manage a game, take what a defense gives you, and complete short passes and claim that all a certain young QB knows how to do is throw bombs downfield.....then he turns around and does exactly what you were complaining about....WHY ARE YOU STILL COMPLAINING.

 

- A further head scratcher for me.....why in the world do you complain when you see your investment actually playing and being productive?  Would you much rather give alway though draft picks and watch your investment sitting on the bench?  For what....for a backup QB with no upside who couldn't even should he could get it done in preseason....W.....T....F......

779526[/snapback]

AMEN BROTHER!

[Ramius]

This is what I am not understanding...perhaps someone can explain this to me....

 

All I fricken heard from a certain group on this board (and others...as a matter of fact these folks all sound very very similar even though they have different screen names)

 

I myself am John from Hemet.....no matter what board I go to....and I ask this questions?

 

- When you complain about a young QB not being able to play smart, manage a game, take what a defense gives you, and complete short passes and claim that all a certain young QB knows how to do is throw bombs downfield.....then he turns around and does exactly what you were complaining about....WHY ARE YOU STILL COMPLAINING.

 

- A further head scratcher for me.....why in the world do you complain when you see your investment actually playing and being productive?  Would you much rather give alway though draft picks and watch your investment sitting on the bench?  For what....for a backup QB with no upside who couldn't even should he could get it done in preseason....W.....T....F......

779526[/snapback]

 

Excellent post.

 

As stated before in this thread, the complaints you speak of come from certain posters' insistence on being RIGHT over actually evaluating a players performance.

[meazza]

I'm not saying anything bad about him, because what he did today was much better than last week, and 1000 times better then any of the retard bull sh-- he's been doing for the last year and a half.

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ya... if only we had aaron brooks... who defied any crappy quarterback in the last 50 years by having not 1, but 2 fumbles, without even attempting one pass.

 

you've got a great eye for qb's

[Risin]

ya... if only we had aaron brooks... who defied any crappy quarterback in the last 50 years by having not 1, but 2 fumbles, without even attempting one pass.

 

you've got a great eye for qb's

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[Orton's Arm]

Hey Holcombs_Arm...what were you say about Big Ben in 2004 (his rookie year, almost the same amount of time JP has had as a starter:

In his rookie year, Big Ben averaged 8.9 yards per pass attempt. That's a big reason why he got so much good press. Yes, some of his days were better than others. But over the course of the season, Big Ben's yards per attempt was quite solid for a veteran player, let alone a rookie. Against the Dolphins, Losman averaged a mere 4.6 yards per attempt, which is why I don't feel Big Ben comparisons are warranted.

[Orton's Arm]

If you want to look at it black and white like that then you also must consider.

 

10-30 200 yards = 10 first downs. (potentially)

 

20-30 200 yards = 20 first downs. (potentially)

 

10 first downs = 30 potential plays

20 first downs = 60 potential plays

 

20-30 for 200 would be, potentially, much more productive.

 

In my mind, we are talking apples and oranges.

I agree that if you're going to drive the ball 90 yards, you typically want to drag out the process as long as possible. In that sense, the QB who goes for the short, high percentage throws is better than the guy who goes for long bombs all the time.

 

But short, safe passes only work if you're moving the chains; which isn't something Losman did against Miami.

[Wraith]

Holcomb's Arm:

 

You claim to rely on statistical analysis so much, but you are breaking the cardinal rule of data analysis: PLOT DATA! And the corrollary: Do NOT (under any circumstances) react to single data points.

 

Without historical data there is NO way to PROVE whether one performance is exceptionally bad, exceptionally good, getting worse, getting better, or "normal." Without historical data to establish what is normal behavior, you could just as easily be reacting to noise as to an actual signal.

 

Simply put, historical data establishes CONTEXT. Without CONTEXT, attempting to prove any kind of change or trend is useless. A note to the rest of you: DO NOT believe it.

 

You are taking Sunday's low yardage performance and using it alone to try to convince us of a point that you have no historical evidence to support. In fact, historical data shows us Losman's strong suit is yardage. The mean YPG (Yards Per Game) for Losman's career is 144.27 yards/game. The last seven samples (since the last "process change" when Losman resumed playing in the KC game in November) are 137, 168, 197, 224, 181, 164, and 83 yards. Obviously, no downward or negative trend exists.

 

If the string of low yardage continues (and we start LOSING THE DAMN game), then we can talk. And not a second earlier.

[AJ1]

In his rookie year, Big Ben averaged 8.9 yards per pass attempt.  That's a big reason why he got so much good press.  Yes, some of his days were better than others.  But over the course of the season, Big Ben's yards per attempt was quite solid for a veteran player, let alone a rookie.  Against the Dolphins, Losman averaged a mere 4.6 yards per attempt, which is why I don't feel Big Ben comparisons are warranted.

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I know that this has been pointed out about a thousand times, but here it is again. If the 50 yard PI call had been a completed pass instead, Losman is 12/19 for 153 yards. That works out to 8.0 ypa. Feel better?

[Orton's Arm]

If a QB goes 0/0 0 yards and 0 TD's and wins, he did what he had 2.

 

If a QB goes 22/37 306 2 TD's and 1 pick and loses, is that a good game?

 

Those are Pennington's numbers btw, from the loss to the Patriots.

 

What you don't seem to get is that you MUST evaluate individual players within the context of the team, and the individual game they are playing in.

 

Example:

 

Cadillac Williams ran 15 times for 37 yards against the Falcons.

 

Had 7 carries in the first 2 drives.

 

Is he a bust?  No, his team was playing behind the entire game so he was a non factor.

 

Vick on the other hand was 10/15 91 1td 1pick

 

No need for the big game throwing when they ran for 300 yards on the ground.  While running down the clock up 14-0.

 

I'm not saying that JP is even close to being there yet, but you have to take his game in context and in that case he played extremely well. (For what he was asked to do)

779447[/snapback]

I agree you have to take into account the individual circumstances a player faced. On the other hand, there are those who seem to believe that if a team won, all its players (or at least the QB) must have played well. These people also seem to believe that if a team lost, its QB must have played badly. I strongly disagree with this type of thinking, because it assumes the QB's level of play is the only factor which determines a game's outcome.

 

In answer to your question, Pennington played well in his team's loss to the Patriots.

 

I agree with your point that you should take a close look at what a player is asked to do, and then see if he's doing it. If your team is protecting a lead, typically your quarterback won't be asked to pass for as many yards as a team coming from behind. He will, however, be asked to protect the football, which Losman did. He'll also be asked to convert third downs to move the chains. That area was where I felt Losman's performance was lacking, and where his performance fell short of what the coaches should have expected. Two 3rd completions for first downs, versus six appearances by Moorman. That's good game management how?

[CoachChuckDickerson]

Can't you guys just agree to disagree? There is plenty of ammo on both sides of the fence based off of yesterdays game. The JP haters can point to the fact that he only completed short high percentage throws and nearly made the game a lot closer on a ball that was almost picked in the beginning of the fourth on a pass to Price. Then on the very next play he chews Gandy a new ass for a false start.....The JP ball washers can point to the fact the kid had zero turnovers and had no need to air it out as the game plan seemed to focus around grounding it out against a seemingly soft Miami run D. He made the passes that mattered, and played a safe, ball control game.

[Orton's Arm]

Holcomb's Arm:

 

You claim to rely on statistical analysis so much, but you are breaking the cardinal rule of data analysis: PLOT DATA! And the corrollary: Do NOT (under any circumstances) react to single data points.

This is annoying. More than once, I explained that the only thing I'm trying to prove here is that Losman's performance against Miami wasn't as good as an average performance from Roethlisberger or Dilfer. That's it. I don't see why this is so hard for people to understand.

 

Without historical data there is NO way to PROVE whether one performance is exceptionally bad, exceptionally good, getting worse, getting better, or "normal." Without historical data to establish what is normal behavior, you could just as easily be reacting to noise as to an actual signal.

 

Simply put, historical data establishes CONTEXT. Without CONTEXT, attempting to prove any kind of change or trend is useless. A note to the rest of you: DO NOT believe it.

Most of Losman's supporters feel his stats from last year should be thrown out the window. You, I see, feel the opposite way.

 

Last year, Losman averaged 5.9 yards per attempt. This year, he's at 6.0. Pretty consistent, no? Trent Dilfer's career yards per attempt is 6.6; while Roethlisberger's is at 8.7. All I'm getting at is that Losman has yet to earn Dilfer or Roethlisberger comparisons, and that some Bills fans are getting a little overeager.