Webster Guy Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 The Bills had 18 pass attempts and 2 Losman runs (just to be consistent) for @20 called passes vs. @ 30 called runs, or about 1/3 - 2/3. Wouldn't that be 40/60?
JDG Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 Wouldn't that be 40/60? 777288[/snapback] Yeah.... its midnight.... ;-) JDG
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 Call me crazy, but it looked to me on both the live action and on the replay, that Losman was trying to "make a play" to fight out of the sack, and that he seriously considered trying to chuck the ball to someone as he was going down - the sort of thing that could easily have resulted in a fumble. 777283[/snapback] So now you are chastizing him for the bad play he DIDN'T make? You are a rare one. Interesting. The Steelers attempted 25 passes against Miami, and had 7 Charlie Batch runs. That adds up to @32 pass calls vs. @31 run calls, or about 50-50. The Bills had 18 pass attempts and 2 Losman runs (just to be consistent) for @20 called passes vs. @ 30 called runs, or about 1/3 - 2/3. Charlie Batch completed 15 of 25 passes for 209 yards, or 13.9 per completion. JP Losman completed 11 of 18 passes for 83 yards, or 7.5 per completion. In my observations of both games, the Steelers' gameplan was for *Charlie Batch* to exploit the Dolphins' secondary through mid-range downfield passes. Batch was consistently finding open WR's in the middle distances. The Bills, however, after the first couple series relied almost exclusively on swing passes and WR screens, rarely letting Losman through mid-range passes, with the occasionaly downfield rainbow. After those first series, there were almost no mid-range passes. I'd be interested to hear your arguments as to why you see the Steelers and Bills as having run "virtually the same" offensive gameplan - as I just don't see it. In my assessment, the coaches concluded that JP Losman was no Charlie Batch, and tried to manage the game to make sure that Daunte Culpepper, and not JP Losman, was the QB that made the mistakes that lost the game for his team. JDG 777283[/snapback] Horseshit. You are comparing the world fukking champions with the longest tenured coach in the league with a new team with a new coach and new systems. With two new starters on the line. If you look at today's game you see this team taking what the Dolphins gave them -- which was superb coverage on the WRs and some big gaps for the run game. (BTW this is precisely why Belicheck wins games -- he adjusts, constantly, to counter opponents' strategies). The endless anti-Losman crusade around here is beyond tiresome. His rating was good and he won, so now you're looking for something else to complain about. Not enough yards, he might have thought about making a bad decision even though he didn't. He should take the sack when he throws it away. He should throw it away when he takes the sack. We won. Deal with it and enjoy it like the rest of us. Jesus.
Mile High Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 5. Perhaps the best thing the Bills did today is stick with their running game. McGahee was very good today and they showed they can run the ball good enough even though Miami STACKED the line of scrimmage a lot of the game. Finally, I think it only gets better from here. Key to us being successfull this year Willis needs to touch the ball just like he did today, then more opens up for JP and the wr's.
sven233 Posted September 18, 2006 Author Posted September 18, 2006 I like reading your longer versions Sven. But I have to go to work this morning and have summarised your "couple things" for others with less time on their hands before the AM drive 776603[/snapback] Well, thank you for the compliment. I do try to provide the best analysis and breakdown I can. But, fo this game, I didn't think it was necessary. There was a lot that went right......but there ws not a lot of things that just stood out. Ryan Denney had the game of his life. Both safties showed why they are going to man this defensive backfield for years to come. JP managed the game and didn'tmake the big mistake. Good pass rush from the front 4. McGahee had a great game. Josh Reed was very solid. Roscoe Parrish is special. You didn't hear Clements of McGee's name much which means they shut down the outside. Jason Taylor was a non-factor which means Peters and Gandy did their job. Coaching was excellent (we had the better coach today). We were the better football team......PERIOD. The only thing I would like to see more of is McGahee getting some more balls through the air. I'd like to see some more screens and swings. I would also like to see the TE more involved. But, overall, I loved the way this game went. It looks like this team is gearing up to stop each team and is ready to attack each team they play in a different way. That all goes back to coaching. For the first time in a VERY LONG TIME, we OUT-COACHED our opponent. Don't be surprised if next week we come out and beat the Jets in a completely different fashion (although I think McGahee will have over 125 next week). This team is exciting to watch and you will see things start to open up very soon. This team will make the playoffs this year if they continue to keep the penalties down and don't turn the ball over.
CosmicBills Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 In my assessment, the coaches concluded that JP Losman was no Charlie Batch, and tried to manage the game to make sure that Daunte Culpepper, and not JP Losman, was the QB that made the mistakes that lost the game for his team. JDG 777283[/snapback] Your "ass"essment makes you look like an ass. Your blind hatred of JP and desire to be right is hilarious and narcissistic. In your anylsis, you only point out the BAD plays and reads. Your interpretation of "poor reads" is laughable at times. The two passes to Lee today were good reads and should have been caught (tough catches, but a number 1 receiver has to come up with those), not to mention they were very accurate. And when JP does do soemthing right, you give credit to everyone BUT him. That isn't a demonstration of good analyitical skills, it's a demonstration of your crusade to be proven right -- despite the facts. Even your sig line with JP's "progress" is misleading and bullshizit. Want to see progress? Then look at the numbers objectively....(minus today's game since the stats page isn't updated). Year G GS Att Comp Pct Yds TD Int Rate 2004 4 0 5 3 60.0 32 0 1 39.2 2005 9 8 228 113 49.6 1340 8 8 64.9 2006 1 1 23 15 65.2 164 0 0 86.1 His completion percentage is up, as is his QB Rating. This after two games on the road against divisional opponents known for their defenses. Your one act show is a joke.
Dan Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 The TD play is an obvious exception, but other than that it seemed like almost all, if not all, of our pass plays were swing-passes, WR-screens, quick slants, or "rainbows" where the QB had to engage in little or no decision making. Today's game was well-managed, but it seems to me that it was the Coaches who did the managing - by taking the managerial decisions out of Losman's hands. 777276[/snapback] I could argue (although I doubt I will other than this post) that JP faced alot of quick pressure from the fins and rather than run around and get sacked or make a hurried throw into coverage; he was dumping the ball off to the quick outlet receiver. That shows good decision making in my book. On the point about the coaches: Isn't that what coaches are supposed to do... know their players limitations and skills and put them in the best position to win? Why is is so bad that the coaches drew up a game plan that allowed JP to manage a game and get us a win?
Rico Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 Did you watch this game, or go by the play-by-play text again? 776976[/snapback]
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 Did you watch this game, or go by the play-by-play text again? 776976[/snapback] Ah, what a gem that thread was.
Alaska Darin Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 Call me crazy, but it looked to me on both the live action and on the replay, that Losman was trying to "make a play" to fight out of the sack, and that he seriously considered trying to chuck the ball to someone as he was going down - the sort of thing that could easily have resulted in a fumble. You're not crazy. You're simply wrong. Just like Dan Dierdorf was. For pretty much the same reason. Willis missed his block on #37, who grabbed JP as he was trying to spin away. On his way down, Taylor smacked the ball out of his hand. He wasn't trying to do anything except secure the thing. You're so desperate to be right about the guy being a bust (Dierdorf Syndrome) that you can't see things that are obvious to the rest of us. Interesting. The Steelers attempted 25 passes against Miami, and had 7 Charlie Batch runs. That adds up to @32 pass calls vs. @31 run calls, or about 50-50. The Bills had 18 pass attempts and 2 Losman runs (just to be consistent) for @20 called passes vs. @ 30 called runs, or about 40% - 60%. Charlie Batch completed 15 of 25 passes for 209 yards, or 13.9 per completion. JP Losman completed 11 of 18 passes for 83 yards, or 7.5 per completion. In my observations of both games, the Steelers' gameplan was for *Charlie Batch* to exploit the Dolphins' secondary through mid-range downfield passes. Batch was consistently finding open WR's in the middle distances. The Bills, however, after the first couple series relied almost exclusively on swing passes and WR screens, rarely letting Losman through mid-range passes, with the occasionaly downfield rainbow. After those first series, there were almost no mid-range passes. I'd be interested to hear your arguments as to why you see the Steelers and Bills as having run "virtually the same" offensive gameplan - as I just don't see it. In my assessment, the coaches concluded that JP Losman was no Charlie Batch, and tried to manage the game to make sure that Daunte Culpepper, and not JP Losman, was the QB that made the mistakes that lost the game for his team. JDG 777283[/snapback] The Steelers were behind so they threw the ball more. It's as simple as that. There was little reason for the BILLS to go after Miami's safeties when they played with the lead the entire game. Anything else? Your assessment, as usual, is off. Take away the 15 yard pass to Heath Miller that ended up in an 87 yard TD (perhaps the worst blown coverage I've ever seen) and Batch had about 140 yard day. What a stud. (10:42) (Shotgun) C.Batch pass incomplete short middle to N.Washington (Y.Bell). (8:09) (Shotgun) C.Batch pass incomplete short right to N.Washington (M.Lehan). (6:01) C.Batch pass short middle to H.Miller to PIT 39 for 12 yards (T.Tillman). (3:57) (Shotgun) C.Batch pass short right to S.Holmes to MIA 48 for 6 yards (Y.Bell). (10:11) C.Batch pass short middle to W.Parker to PIT 9 for 3 yards (Z.Thomas). (7:09) C.Batch pass short right to H.Miller to PIT 14 for 2 yards (T.Tillman). (6:31) C.Batch pass incomplete short middle to H.Ward (Z.Thomas). (4:25) C.Batch pass short right to W.Parker to PIT 35 for 9 yards (C.Crowder, J.Taylor). (2:04) C.Batch pass incomplete short left to D.Kreider. pressure #54 Thomas (1:56) C.Batch pass short middle to H.Ward for 7 yards (13:35) (Shotgun) C.Batch pass short middle to H.Ward to PIT 49 for 11 yards (R.Hill). (10:22) (Shotgun) C.Batch pass incomplete short left to V.Haynes. COVERAGE BY #54 THOMAS 4:50) C.Batch pass short right to W.Parker to PIT 23 for 1 yard (D.Spragan). (3:37) (Shotgun) C.Batch pass short left to H.Ward to PIT 38 for 10 yards (A.Goodman; R.Hill). PRESSURE BY #99 TAYLOR (1:44) (Shotgun) C.Batch pass short right to N.Washington to MIA 49 for 5 yards (Y.Bell). (15:00) C.Batch pass incomplete short middle to W.Parker. COVERAGE BY #54 THOMAS (14:55) C.Batch pass short left to D.Kreider to MIA 21 for 4 yards (A.Goodman). (4:23) (Shotgun) C.Batch pass short right to H.Ward to MIA 32 for 6 yards (T.Tillman). That's 18 of his 25 throws (12 completions for a whopping 76 yards) that were short passes. Three other completions accounted for 133 of his 209 yards. He was just tossing the ball all over the yard. If Lee Evans runs through Losman's first deep pass, it's a LONG TD. Add to that the penalty and you have remarkably similiar yardage numbers to what your hero Charlie Batch threw up there. Good job on the ANALysis.
JDG Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 I could argue (although I doubt I will other than this post) that JP faced alot of quick pressure from the fins and rather than run around and get sacked or make a hurried throw into coverage; he was dumping the ball off to the quick outlet receiver. That shows good decision making in my book. On the point about the coaches: Isn't that what coaches are supposed to do... know their players limitations and skills and put them in the best position to win? Why is is so bad that the coaches drew up a game plan that allowed JP to manage a game and get us a win? 777361[/snapback] Dan: On the first point, our only disagreement is whether Losman was deciding to throw the swing pass/WR screen, or whether those were the calls from the very beginning. As for the coaches - its not bad at all, its great. It is what the coaches are supposed to do. All I'm saying is that when the coaches do do that, it doesn't give you anything to get excited about in regards to the play of our QB. I don't think anyone is debating whether our coaches did a great job on Sunday. The only question is whether we should be inspired by Losman's performance, or whether we should continue to be concerned by Losman's performance. JDG
JDG Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 His completion percentage is up, as is his QB Rating. 777349[/snapback] They are. And the Losman meter shows it. Although his Yards per Attempt wasn't helped by his 4.6 ypa performance yesterday. Indeed, he hasn't done anything this year to make an inarguable case for getting himself benched, like he did last year.... JDG
JDG Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 Your assessment, as usual, is off. Take away the 15 yard pass to Heath Miller that ended up in an 87 yard TD (perhaps the worst blown coverage I've ever seen) and Batch had about 140 yard day. What a stud. Which was 50% more than Losman's day..... so if you are going to mock 140 yards (minus an 87 yard TD), what is your opinion of an 83 yard day? It has sounded like your opinion has been "What a stud" - only without the sarcasm. (10:42) (Shotgun) C.Batch pass incomplete short middle to N.Washington (Y.Bell).(8:09) (Shotgun) C.Batch pass incomplete short right to N.Washington (M.Lehan). (6:01) C.Batch pass short middle to H.Miller to PIT 39 for 12 yards (T.Tillman). (3:57) (Shotgun) C.Batch pass short right to S.Holmes to MIA 48 for 6 yards (Y.Bell). (10:11) C.Batch pass short middle to W.Parker to PIT 9 for 3 yards (Z.Thomas). (7:09) C.Batch pass short right to H.Miller to PIT 14 for 2 yards (T.Tillman). (6:31) C.Batch pass incomplete short middle to H.Ward (Z.Thomas). (4:25) C.Batch pass short right to W.Parker to PIT 35 for 9 yards (C.Crowder, J.Taylor). (2:04) C.Batch pass incomplete short left to D.Kreider. pressure #54 Thomas (1:56) C.Batch pass short middle to H.Ward for 7 yards (13:35) (Shotgun) C.Batch pass short middle to H.Ward to PIT 49 for 11 yards (R.Hill). (10:22) (Shotgun) C.Batch pass incomplete short left to V.Haynes. COVERAGE BY #54 THOMAS 4:50) C.Batch pass short right to W.Parker to PIT 23 for 1 yard (D.Spragan). (3:37) (Shotgun) C.Batch pass short left to H.Ward to PIT 38 for 10 yards (A.Goodman; R.Hill). PRESSURE BY #99 TAYLOR (1:44) (Shotgun) C.Batch pass short right to N.Washington to MIA 49 for 5 yards (Y.Bell). (15:00) C.Batch pass incomplete short middle to W.Parker. COVERAGE BY #54 THOMAS (14:55) C.Batch pass short left to D.Kreider to MIA 21 for 4 yards (A.Goodman). (4:23) (Shotgun) C.Batch pass short right to H.Ward to MIA 32 for 6 yards (T.Tillman). That's 18 of his 25 throws (12 completions for a whopping 76 yards) that were short passes. Three other completions accounted for 133 of his 209 yards. He was just tossing the ball all over the yard. If Lee Evans runs through Losman's first deep pass, it's a LONG TD. Add to that the penalty and you have remarkably similiar yardage numbers to what your hero Charlie Batch threw up there. Good job on the ANALysis. 777400[/snapback] Wow, just imagine if *I* had posted the play-by-play here.... Good grief. I watched both games, and while the play-by-play lists those plays as "short", I recall many more plays in the Steelers game as being in the short-to-mid range a couple yards down field than in the Bills game. I guess it will be hard to *prove* either way, without the tape. But here's my question. Many people have argued that Losman made some good reads and great throws on his first couple passes. If so, wouldn't you expect that we would go back to the same or similar play late in the game? Did we? Or did the type of throw we were making on the first couple drives and the rest of the drives change in some way? JDG
Doza Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 Good win, guys. Miami may be very overrated, but it was a good win nonetheless.
Alaska Darin Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 Which was 50% more than Losman's day..... so if you are going to mock 140 yards (minus an 87 yard TD), what is your opinion of an 83 yard day? My opinion of the 83 yard day is it was enough to win by 10 points. It has sounded like your opinion has been "What a stud" - only without the sarcasm. Wrong. He was decent. He recognized blitzes, though unfortunately his teammates didn't always (Lee Evans, Willis). Wow, just imagine if *I* had posted the play-by-play here.... Good grief. You're defensive because you know you've dug yourself a hole. I watched both games, and while the play-by-play lists those plays as "short", I recall many more plays in the Steelers game as being in the short-to-mid range a couple yards down field than in the Bills game. Same controlled game the Bills ran, regardless of it being a yard or two longer - because that's where the Fish are vulnerable (and because both QBs are limited at this point). I guess it will be hard to *prove* either way, without the tape. You mean like how he tried to make a play on his fumble? But here's my question. Many people have argued that Losman made some good reads and great throws on his first couple passes. If so, wouldn't you expect that we would go back to the same or similar play late in the game? Did we? Not much - mostly because we had a pretty good sized lead. Take away the pathetic (yes, I know it's the rule, but when it's called against the Patriots I'll believe it's a penalty) and it's even more obvious that offensive scheme worked. Or did the type of throw we were making on the first couple drives and the rest of the drives change in some way?JDG 777461[/snapback] Call me crazy, but I don't blame the coaches for having the exact opposite approach with Losman that Mularkey took. It's that kind of outside the box thinking that makes me a genius. Anyone remember blowing a 20 point second half lead in South Florida? I don't think it happened very long ago.
X. Benedict Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 Call me crazy, but I don't blame the coaches for having the exact opposite approach with Losman that Mularkey took. It's that kind of outside the box thinking that makes me a genius. Anyone remember blowing a 20 point second half lead in South Florida? I don't think it happened very long ago. 777514[/snapback] That's exactly right. This is the type of game we should have seen out of JP last year. This is how Bill Cower or Marty Shottenheimer would handle an inexperienced QB. Just ask them to play within themselves. Note the curious lack of attempts for JP to pull the ball down and play Mike Vick.
Gordio Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 sullivan actually made a decent point on the radio this morning. He said the young bills went into 2 hostile stadiums, division rivals, who are both looked as super bowl contenders by the so called experts, & this young offense did not turn the ball over once. He said that is almost unheard of. When Dickie J was with the bears & they went 13-3, he won alot of games like the bills won yesterday. Stellar defense, great special teams, good field position, & a mistake free offense. Smart gameplan by Jauron & the boys. I think they realized somewhere towards the end of the 1st quarter that the only way that they were going to loose this game was if the offense turned the ball over, I think that is why they reverted to a conservative game plan. Not because because they have concerns about JP's so called lack of developement. Believe me their is going to come a time in this season, especially with the d being so young that they are going to have to open up the playbook & let Losman do his thing. I think the coaching staff has seen enough of Losman to have no reservations about doing this. The point is why get risky if you dont have to. Yesterday, with that smothering D they did not have to.
JDG Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 sullivan actually made a decent point on the radio this morning. He said the young bills went into 2 hostile stadiums, division rivals, who are both looked as super bowl contenders by the so called experts, & this young offense did not turn the ball over once. He said that is almost unheard of. When Dickie J was with the bears & they went 13-3, he won alot of games like the bills won yesterday. Stellar defense, great special teams, good field position, & a mistake free offense. Smart gameplan by Jauron & the boys. I think they realized somewhere towards the end of the 1st quarter that the only way that they were going to loose this game was if the offense turned the ball over, I think that is why they reverted to a conservative game plan. Not because because they have concerns about JP's so called lack of developement. Believe me their is going to come a time in this season, especially with the d being so young that they are going to have to open up the playbook & let Losman do his thing. I think the coaching staff has seen enough of Losman to have no reservations about doing this. The point is why get risky if you dont have to. Yesterday, with that smothering D they did not have to. 777532[/snapback] Absolutely great point. I'm very happy with the way Jauron has managed two difficult road games. Of course, it makes not kicking the field goal against New England all the more inexplicable - but I can forgive Jauron for one mistake in his first game back as head coach..... ;-) JDG
ganesh Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 Today's game was well-managed, but it seems to me that it was the Coaches who did the managing - by taking the managerial decisions out of Losman's hands. JDG 777276[/snapback] What is wrong with that.. In fact I wished Mularkey did that all of last season. You have to put the game in the hands of your running game and Defense and let the young QB avoid making mistakes and manage the game. You don't want him making decisions on that field at this point of time. Is this is the reason you put the comment that the coaches are concered that Losman is not growing. If Losman threw multiple INTs and sulked and then fumbled the ball, I would say Losman is regressing......... On the contrary, Losman is learning to win ball games....Winning cures all.
ganesh Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 Interesting. The Steelers attempted 25 passes against Miami, and had 7 Charlie Batch runs. That adds up to @32 pass calls vs. @31 run calls, or about 50-50. The Bills had 18 pass attempts and 2 Losman runs (just to be consistent) for @20 called passes vs. @ 30 called runs, or about 40% - 60%. JDG 777283[/snapback] I think there was a 10-15 degrees in temparature difference on a Sunday night in Pittsburgh and a Sunday afternoon in Miami. You have to go with a slightly different game plan in that case. On a warm day, what do you want to do....run the ball and keep the opposing Defense panting....that is what the Bills did... Also, wasn't it just 10 months ago when we all bitched that Mularkey should have run the ball after taking a 21 point lead in the 4th qtr against the same team on the same field to kill the clock. With a 16 point lead, the bills did exactly that in the 4th qtr as advertised, unlike his predecessor who promosed that he will build a running powerhouse and then went and did exactly the opposite.
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