SHOCK! MUSLIMs OUTRAGED!

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

If is was a "flower", it was a corpse flower.

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Do you have any idea how many people had to die worldwide in the name of Queen Victoria's Pax Brittanica? (Britain was fighting at least two simultaneous wars against "savages" for all but twenty three months of Queen Victoria's reign. Pax Brittanica. ) Or of the extreme intolerance that characterizes modern Pax Americana? This idea that intolerance and violence is unique to Islam is seriously retarded.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

And that's not so much different than the ultra-conservative, right-wing Christian nutjobs here at home. They are a very small but extremely vocal minority.

 

True, they don't fly planes into buildings, but that's because they're American and basically too lazy.  They hide behind plastic and duct tape instead.

 

Reactionary extremists of any persuasion are dangerous.  What's more dangerous is making the assuming that the entire group subscribes to the extremist position.  When that happens, the group becomes isolated and could end up joining the extremists.  Almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy...back anyone into a corner and see what happens.

 

We are creating enemies faster than we can kill them.

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Yeah...Americans are terrorists because they hide behind plastic and duct tape. Get a new shtick, devil woman.

 

And stop agreeing with me. It makes me look bad.

[Moose]

Educate YOURSELF.

 

A good chunk of early Renissance culture came from the Muslim world via trade with Venetian and Genoese merchants.  Literacy rates in the Islamic world in the 900-1200 time period were highest in the world.  Most major cities had libraries; at least four of them (Merv, Samarkand, Baghdad, Bukhara) surpassed the Classical "Great" Library at Alexandria.  Outside of China, Baghdad was the center of scholarship in the world.  Islamic science laid the foundations for Renissance astronomy, mathematics (especially), medicine (the name of the author escapes me...but the first medical textbook was written by an Arab in Baghdad around 1100, and was used in Western universities well into the 1500's), engineering, agriculture, economics, and chemistry (Islamic scholars were centuries advanced beyond Western alchemists).  Most of what we consider novel and unique advances in the Renissaince were predated in the Islamic world by two to four centuries (there's actually evidence that Gutenberg's press was preceded by the use of movable type printing in the Islamic world around 1250).  Islam also made major contributions to the art, architecture, and music of the High Middle Ages, as well - not in a stylistic sense (though the modern major scale is based on an Arabic musical foundation), but in an inspirational sense; the great cathedrals of the Middle Ages, for example, are stylistically unique but recall in scale not any architecture of the classical era but the great mosques of the Islamic era. 

 

And Islam was spread more by trade than conquest...through Persia, greater India, Southeast Asia, Indonesia, Central Asia, and Western China.  Through those regions, Islam was able to peacefully coexist with Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism/Confucianism, local Christian sects (Nestorian Christianity, for example) and the various tribal shamanist religions.

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Oh my Gawd! More multi-culti revisionist crapola. Where do you get this nonsense - from our modern middle school textbooks? Or maybe from websites like THIS that claim that muslims discovered America before Columbus and the Vikings - and invented or discovered just about everything under the sun and moon? (Ooooo - I bet you didn't know that Neil Armstrong heard the muslim call to prayer on the MOON and converted right then and there!!! NOT!!!!) Where do you get this endless supply of crap, Crap-Thrower? You, sir, will make a model dhimmi; you've got it all down pat, boy. Lots of luck with that - I'd rather be dead than muslim. (And any "good" muslim will be happy to oblige.)

 

BTW, it's obvious you didn't read a single article on the Gates of Vienna. Your loss. Stay deluded.

[Moose]

This idea that intolerance and violence is unique to Islam is seriously retarded.

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Except that you were implying that islam was the MODEL of TOLERANCE. Your tune mysteriously changes now.

 

Hmmmmm....

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Right, they kill civillians because they have more "get up and go", so they have the "energy" to do stuff live this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4387604.stm

 

Please don't:

Vote

Breed

Run for office

Move any place near me

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http://www.thejakartapost.com/yesterdaydet...id=20060512.G02

 

Rusdiati relived the horrible day of the massacre for journalists. It was May 28, 2000, when the electricity in the Muslim village was cut amid a heavy downpour.

 

Gunshots were heard from all directions and then the attackers, armed Christian militia members, began burning down the houses in the village. She said all of the houses were destroyed, including the Wali Songo Muslim boardinghouse.

 

All of the men, women and children from the village were gathered in a nearby field and their hands tied, Rusdiati recalled.

 

All of the sharp weapons in the village, including agricultural tools, were confiscated by the attackers, who wore headbands. The residents were then led to a river about two kilometers away.

 

"At the river we were separated. My husband, three children and five other relatives were killed. My youngest child, Yudi Arifin, who was in the third grade, was also killed. They were all killed in front of my eyes," she said, clutching and kissing the clothes pulled from the grave.

 

You want to use Sulawesi as an example? I'll match you atrocity for atrocity...

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Oh my Gawd! More multi-culti revisionist crapola. Where do you get this nonsense - from our modern middle school textbooks? Or maybe from websites like THIS that claim that muslims discovered America before Columbus and the Vikings - and invented or discovered just about everything under the sun and moon? (Ooooo - I bet you didn't know that Neil Armstrong heard the muslim call to prayer on the MOON and converted right then and there!!! NOT!!!!) Where do you get this endless supply of crap, Crap-Thrower? You, sir, will make a model dhimmi; you've got it all down pat, boy. Lots of luck with that - I'd rather be dead than muslim. (And any "good" muslim will be happy to oblige.)

 

BTW, it's obvious you didn't read a single article on the Gates of Vienna. Your loss. Stay deluded.

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Actually, that's not revisionist. It's all factual. Irrespective of your breathtakingly moronic reply (that Neil Armstrong vignette was a really convincing counter-argument). You can look it up...in contemporary histories, not modern ones, if you feel compelled to learn Latin and dig around in European libraries.

 

The FACT is that Islam was the most vigorous, most tolerant, richest society (financially, culturally, and intellectually) in the world until the disaster of the Genghisid invasion. The modern intolerance of Islam is less a function of Islam itself as it is a backlash against the Western colonial period.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Except that you were implying that islam was the MODEL of TOLERANCE. Your tune mysteriously changes now.

 

Hmmmmm....

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Are you mentally retarded? Do you understand the difference between 1000 AD and 2000 AD?

 

My "implication" [sic] was that Islam, as written in the Koran, is required to be tolerant, and that it was in its "goldern era" (more than "was", it was a shining example of such to the rest of the world). Now...political Islam is reactionary and xenophobic...and contrary to the history of Islam and teachings of the Koran. And the will of God; most of these !@#$ers (bin Laden is a good example) will roast in hell, if they believe what they truly claim to. The problem - your problem, specifically - is that those !@#$ers are the ones that get the press, and you're far too damned lazy, arrogant, and downright stupid to bother doing any background research on them or their beliefs.

[pdh1]

http://www.thejakartapost.com/yesterdaydet...id=20060512.G02

You want to use Sulawesi as an example?  I'll match you atrocity for atrocity...

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Gee, could be they were mad about stuff like this? But according to your view, no one should fight back against the Islamic Terrorist, because...it will just make more of them!!

Buddy, I could send you 30 news stories from the PAST YEAR it want to look at atrocities!

 

POSO, Indonesia — Masked, black-clad and brandishing machetes, the attackers sprang from behind a screen of tall grass and pounced on the four Christian girls as they walked to school. Within seconds, three of the teenagers were beheaded — fresh victims of violence that has turned this Indonesian island into yet another front in the terrorist wars.

 

"All I could do was pray to Jesus for his help," said 16-year-old Noviana Malewa, who fled with a gaping head wound. "I was streaming with blood." A thick scar runs from the back of her neck to just under her right eye.

 

Muslim militants are blamed for the October killings, the most gruesome yet in a campaign of terror against Christians on the island of Sulawesi.

 

Muslim-Christian violence from 2000 to 2002 killed some 1,000 people in Sulawesi and attracted Muslim militants from across Indonesia, including from Jemaah Islamiyah, a homegrown network linked to Al Qaeda, and even from the distant Middle East.

 

 

That is, Muslim violence against Christians, not "Muslim-Christian violence."

 

Despite a peace deal, bombings, shootings and other attacks on Christians have continued, especially around the small town of Poso in the heart of the octopus-shaped, Massachusetts-sized island.

Behind the attacks are Muslim islanders avenging their dead in that conflict, and terrorists bent on fomenting a new war, former fighters and security officials say.

 

"They want to see Poso become alive with the spirit of jihad again," said Fahirin Ibnu Achmad, an Afghan-trained militant who took part in the 2000-2002 war.

[pdh1]

The modern intolerance of Islam is less a function of Islam itself as it is a backlash against the Western colonial period.

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When it doubt, BLAME WHITEY!

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

When it doubt, BLAME WHITEY!

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Yeah, that's exactly what I said, nitwit.

 

What, you think Western colonial practices haven't contributed to Arab xenophobia and nationalism? Ever heard of the Suez Canal?

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Gee, could be they were mad about stuff like this?

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Oh, okay. Islamic atrocities bad. Christian atrocities okay...because they're mad. Moral relavitism at its best.

 

Now go tell that to the Palestinians. They'll be happy to know that, since they're mad, their terrorism is acceptable.

[Moose]

My "implication" [sic] was that Islam, as written in the Koran, is required to be tolerant, and that it was in its "goldern era" (more than "was", it was a shining example of such to the rest of the world).  Now...political Islam is reactionary and xenophobic...and contrary to the history of Islam and teachings of the Koran.  And the will of God; most of these !@#$ers (bin Laden is a good example) will roast in hell, if they believe what they truly claim to.  The problem - your problem, specifically - is that those !@#$ers are the ones that get the press, and you're far too damned lazy, arrogant, and downright stupid to bother doing any background research on them or their beliefs.

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Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an:9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”

 

So, according to your timeline, they went from being a "shining example of tolerance, science and culture to the rest of the world" to - a millennium later - mired back in a 7th century mentality, while the rest of the world has moved on past the middle ages. Makes perfect sense to me. Really, it does. Your superior mind is too powerful for me. I give up.

[RuntheDamnBall]

When it doubt, BLAME WHITEY!

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I love this. Try and cite history accurately as opposed to depicting the people of Western heritage as lily-white and incapable of wrongdoing, and the retort is always "Blame whitey," "Blame America First™" "Sure, blame us." It's a great deflectionary tool for when people would rather not examine our past and roles in history with any sort of balance. Oh, yes, it's as bad as "BushBad," believe it or not.

 

I'm thankful someone has a rational worldview around here. Thanks for the illuminating posts, CTM.

[ExiledInIllinois]

That was the 11th century. This is NOW, in a civilized and technologically advanced world.

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For the western ECONOMIC world... This is where the clash really is...

 

Like oil and water... Two complete economic worlds and systems.

 

Capitalism v. Communism is looking like a better battle everyday now...

[OGTEleven]

I love this.  Try and cite history accurately as opposed to depicting the people of Western heritage as lily-white and incapable of wrongdoing, and the retort is always "Blame whitey," "Blame America First™" "Sure, blame us."  It's a great deflectionary tool for when people would rather not examine our past and roles in history with any sort of balance.  Oh, yes, it's as bad as "BushBad," believe it or not.

 

I'm thankful someone has a rational worldview around here.  Thanks for the illuminating posts, CTM.

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Rational worldview or not, it is entirely inconsistent with a "religion of peace" that the Pope's life is threatened, he is burned in effigy and his apology is "not enough".

 

All of this for quoting a source from 600 years ago for two sentences in a long speech.

 

I hope there is one Muslim leader that has accepted the Pope's apology and/or renounced the calls for his life. I haven't seen it, but maybe it has happened.

 

I cannot see indicting the whole religion for the acts of these people in regard to the Pope. They are not all of Islam. The reaction is big enough (even if fanned by the press) to indicate to me that not everything is hunky dory.

[Chilly]

So, according to your timeline, they went from being a "shining example of tolerance, science and culture to the rest of the world" to - a millennium later - mired back in a 7th century mentality, while the rest of the world has moved on past the middle ages. Makes perfect sense to me. Really, it does. Your superior mind is too powerful for me. I give up.

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Hrm, the Khalifa translation that I have says:

 

9:5 Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they repent and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), you shall let them go. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

 

Wait, you mean there are different translations for the same book? SURELY NO!

 

Islam is so simple, and they all believe the same thing, like the Bible! The Bible is so clear cut that everyone knows what it says is and everyone in the entire world believes the same thing.

[Chilly]

I cannot see indicting the whole religion for the acts of these people in regard to the Pope.  They are not all of Islam.

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And yet, you manage to do just that in your very own post, by talking in general statements about Islam and peace.

[Taro T]

So, according to your timeline, they went from being a "shining example of tolerance, science and culture to the rest of the world" to - a millennium later - mired back in a 7th century mentality, while the rest of the world has moved on past the middle ages. Makes perfect sense to me. Really, it does. Your superior mind is too powerful for me. I give up.

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Actually, you could open nearly any high school history textbook and realize that the Arab & Muslim world was far ahead of the Europeans at that time. Were it not for them, Europe would have lost most if not all of the history of the ancient Greek and Roman civilizations.

 

And your post should actually be a reminder and/or wake up call that Western civilization, while dominant today, won't necessarily be dominant in a few hundred years. I'd actually expect either China or India to become dominant if I had to have money down, but if we don't win the war vs. reactionary "Islamo-fascists" (a stupid term that does have a nice ring to it) then we actually could end up back in the 12th century.

[OGTEleven]

And yet, you manage to do just that in your very own post, by talking in general statements about Islam and peace.

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Uh, no. I'd expect more from Tom Petty's newest fan. The general statement is made by Islam (not me) when they call themselves "The religion of peace."

 

Would you at least agree that the religion has some problems surrounding it? Muslims must be an integral part of turning away from the people that are calling for the death of the Pope (and killing Danish authors, etc.). Right now that is not happening. This is causing a problem for the whole religion even if its vast majority is not part of the problem.

 

I'd also say that if Catholicism was called the "Religion of non-pedophiles" that is was a misnomer even though most priests and Catholics do not molest children. They would and do have some fence mending in store.

[yall]

Still, no one has addressed the implications of a religion being founded by a violent conqueror. The one link I provided may not be the pinnacle of credibility, but all you need to do is look around and you will find thousands of sites that accurately describe the life and times of the prophet.

 

Once again CTM.. you said you would respond, but never did. Our childish insults aside, can you deny that the violence perpetrated during the life of the prophet nullifies (or at least brings into serious question)the "peaceful" nature of islam?